Spell Chanting vs Witchcraft+Necromancy

[Heceldi]

Ok, don't see this comparison being made, and I'm working on my Greater Magic to get it up to 25, and now I'm becoming a bit torn on which path to take.

Spell Chanting offers a wide array of stat buffs, a 'heal everyone around you', a static hp buff, but no damage potential in the line.

Witchcraft leads to Necromancy, and between them, they offer a wide array of damage and debuffs, but very little in the way of healing or buffs.

This information based around http://www.ozbackup.com/spells/spells.php

So how effective is the spell chanting line, compared to witchcraft/necromancy. I'm wanting to play a hybrid character, and goal is archery primary, with melee/magic as backup. Right now, especially for PvE encounters and 'runners' in PvP, I find myself resorting to magic more and more.

If I focused on damage output from greater and elemental lines, would it make up for potential lost in witchcraft/necromancy to take spell chanting? Or would I be better off going with them?

If previous playstyles bear any impact, I had a lot of fun as a minstrel in DAoC.

[Undead Clown]

I would suggest skipping SC/WC for now unless you are using them to get to Arcane/Necro. Reason is that buffs/debuffs are not working/not turned on atm.

The heal from SC may be worth it, but I don't know of anyone with 75 SC to test it out.

[Finddus]

Its to bad you need 75 of witchcraft in order to get to necromancy it will probably be painful to get there. Even so dark magic is so cool ill probably go with it anyway.

[metaLoL]

I would suggest skipping SC/WC for now unless you are using them to get to Arcane/Necro. Reason is that buffs/debuffs are not working/not turned on atm.

The heal from SC may be worth it, but I don't know of anyone with 75 SC to test it out.

uh, buffs from sc def work.

[Ren]

If you go SC be sure to have another source of reliable ranged damage for quite some time.

[KuraM]

Don't use that website, just look at the spells from the trainer ingame to get a clearer picture on the type of spells, because nobody has necro or arcane yet. If your still aprehensive about making a choice, wait till other people get it. Nobody said you had to be the first one to get it :).

[XEshamX]

both buffs and debuffs work, but with ppls a) low spell skill level b) high encumberance c) crap staff

they are hard to notice.

[Sonn Fere]

uh, buffs from sc def work.

No, they don't... IF you consider this working, you must be on crack. 1 minute buffs that do virtually nothing. No wait, you're right... works as intended.

[AdmiralChaos]

No, they don't... IF you consider this working, you must be on crack. 1 minute buffs that do virtually nothing. No wait, you're right... works as intended.
quickness buff increases attack speed by a rather noticable amount, even at rank 1.
Str buff doesn't increase melee damage, but that's because str isn't turned on. It still gives 10 more maximum hp and like 10 more maximum stam, which is reasonable.
Self stamina buff gives 22 stamina for me.
Meta's sacrifice heals for 30 occasionally.

1 minute buffs? Skill them up a bit. 1 minute is more than enough to wreck havoc in a set of full plate with a rank 70 GS.

And you say they aren't working? Get the spells before you cry nerfed, please, and sit down sir.

[arknath]

Witchcraft debuff does not debuff base swing speed or base damage. Meaning if you debuff from 20 to 1 you will see no difference whatsoever. In other words pretty much useless for another year or so until people get higher stats.

[electrofux]

I was hit by a wc spell (probably sluggish) when i was fighting a wolf revenant.
The result was that i swung at terrible slow speed.

electrofux

[Elelish]

Witchcraft debuff does not debuff base swing speed or base damage. Meaning if you debuff from 20 to 1 you will see no difference whatsoever. In other words pretty much useless for another year or so until people get higher stats.

so funny to read. One newb said it, and all the other newbs who never tested it use EXACT the same example. Hahahahah....


Stats ARE working. There is a nice posting from a guy who explained, why we dont notice a big difference imo.
You can search it...i dont know where it was...:> But it had something to do with too-low weapon skill, str skill and weapon-dmg-mod. ...

[metaLoL]

Meta's sacrifice heals for 30 occasionally.

41-2 with a rank 40, 46+ with a rank 80

No, they don't... IF you consider this working, you must be on crack. 1 minute buffs that do virtually nothing. No wait, you're right... works as intended.

you are an idiot. ever heard of the durable passive ability? try skilling it up past 50 and then come talk to me.

[SekZ]

41-2 with a rank 40, 46+ with a rank 80



you are an idiot. ever heard of the durable passive ability? try skilling it up past 50 and then come talk to me.

I have 48 spellchanting with like 28-32 durability (don't remember off top of head and not at home right now)... my buff others don't last very long. Maybe 2 minutes and 45 seconds? (Oh and that's versus 2 minutes at skill 1... both using dawnstaff)

I don't see it improving much either heh... maybe they will adjust the timing a little later. Seems useless to have to buff immediately before the fight and barely even have time to get mana back before it wears off =P

[In Nox]

I have 48 spellchanting with like 28-32 durability (don't remember off top of head and not at home right now)... my buff others don't last very long. Maybe 2 minutes and 45 seconds? (Oh and that's versus 2 minutes at skill 1... both using dawnstaff)

I don't see it improving much either heh... maybe they will adjust the timing a little later. Seems useless to have to buff immediately before the fight and barely even have time to get mana back before it wears off =P

I'm looking forward to the self cast INT buff in water. Most likely the mana used to cast the spell will be greater than the increase in mana from the buff, and considering it will last so short I won't even had regened the original mana spent. Hoo-ray.

[Carnifex]

The heal from SC may be worth it, but I don't know of anyone with 75 SC to test it out.

It's decent.

[BlueOreo]

It's decent.

How is the persistent AoE sphere heal?

Please, I'm dying to know! Pictures of the animation, stats, reagent costs, anything man...

I've played a priest or support character for the last 6 years of my gaming life... I must know these things! It's driving me crazy not knowing whether or not a support character is viable in Darkfall.

[Carnifex]

I only know from beta it is a channeled cast. The reagents I don't know since someone else had the spell, I could try to find this player and ask him though. I'm assuming it's either 2 mandrake, or 1 mandrake and 1 sulfur or something alike.

You have to stand still while casting (afaik) and the radius is about 3-4 people wide including the caster. It ticks for 5-6 and the channel lasts for 5 seconds (? not sure about this, might be 10).
The heal in beta was done with the noobstaff and with a very low rank spell (1-5ish).

The animation is a glow around the caster much like the mana missile one (less blue though), with the obvious red crosses popping up randomly.
It will heal any player/npc entering the sphere at any time the spell is being casted.

[BlueOreo]

I only know from beta it is a channeled cast. The reagents I don't know since someone else had the spell, I could try to find this player and ask him though. I'm assuming it's either 2 mandrake, or 1 mandrake and 1 sulfur or something alike.

You have to stand still while casting (afaik) and the radius is about 3-4 people wide including the caster. It ticks for 5-6 and the channel lasts for 5 seconds (? not sure about this, might be 10).
The heal in beta was done with the noobstaff and with a very low rank spell (1-5ish).

The animation is a glow around the caster much like the mana missile one (less blue though), with the obvious red crosses popping up randomly.
It will heal any player/npc entering the sphere at any time the spell is being casted.

Haha, finally some information! Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Anyone else on spell chanting? How's Sacrifice?

I must know these things! :)

[Carnifex]

Haven't seen sacrifice put to use, but I'm on the way to getting it.

[Sonn Fere]

quickness buff increases attack speed by a rather noticable amount, even at rank 1.
Str buff doesn't increase melee damage, but that's because str isn't turned on. It still gives 10 more maximum hp and like 10 more maximum stam, which is reasonable.
Self stamina buff gives 22 stamina for me.
Meta's sacrifice heals for 30 occasionally.

1 minute buffs? Skill them up a bit. 1 minute is more than enough to wreck havoc in a set of full plate with a rank 70 GS.

And you say they aren't working? Get the spells before you cry nerfed, please, and sit down sir.

I love how you assume my stats aren't skilled up. Yet another example here (just like in the beta forums) where you stroke the Dev's ego--insisting things aren't broken.

All my buffs are well over 25, meanwhile some are above 50. Spellchanting is useless. The only potential it has is on the fly use. Because it takes more than a fucking minute to run from my damn bank to the clanstone...

Quickness buff is NOT a noticeable difference... I've tested it extensively. Meanwhile this "it's not turned on" excuse is no longer viable. I'm a paying customer now, the least DEVs can do is address their fuckups.

[Xefipor]

It's basicly the same thing in all mmo's someone bitches someone says it's not broken..

I'm really tired of all the people saying they pay for a game that want it fixed now... if that is the way you feel then don't play MMO's go play Single Player RPGs and feel better about yourself for playing a completed game.

Give this game some time.. let them iron things out... You can't tell yet from a MMO that has only been out for a short while.

Anyway i don't have the skill high enough yet to use any of these spells.

Im just getting tired of hearing the same thing in every new MMO.

Yes fix the problems.. but lets give them time too.

FFS it took 7+ years to make the damned game.. and you think they can fix every little thing in 3 months.

oh well.. rant over... flame blast burp do what you do when someone disagres with how you act.. i don't read the forums enough to care.

[In Nox]

Yeah it took them 7 years and this is all we got. And you expect them to fix problems any time soon? Doubt it.

[Xefipor]

Yeah it took them 7 years and this is all we got. And you expect them to fix problems any time soon? Doubt it.

See... i enjoy the game... i think its fun and something diffrent...

I don't see any problem with pointing out what you find to be imbalanced and out right wrong.

I just get bugged by people that think that their problem should be adjusted and fixed first.. And the fact that they think it's even a problem.

I say once you get maxed skill and do a numbers test to make sure that there is a problem then you can really expect to see actions.

But hell... if oyu don't like the game you can always just make your own.

[Raam]

See... i enjoy the game... i think its fun and something diffrent...

I don't see any problem with pointing out what you find to be imbalanced and out right wrong.

I just get bugged by people that think that their problem should be adjusted and fixed first.. And the fact that they think it's even a problem.

I say once you get maxed skill and do a numbers test to make sure that there is a problem then you can really expect to see actions.

But hell... if oyu don't like the game you can always just make your own.

See thats just not good enough... whether people are right or wrong, they always have a right to voice their opinion. Thats what paying customers can do...

If 15.0000 people bought 15.000 cars, and a large portion of them ordered them a specific feature, and they all complained about that feature... there might be a chance that something is screwed up with that feature. Then you can't just say, "Hey.. if you aren't satisfied with it.. build you own car..."

If the dealer did that to you, and you were one of those customers - you'd be pissed as well.

[BlueOreo]

See thats just not good enough... whether people are right or wrong, they always have a right to voice their opinion. Thats what paying customers can do...

If 15.0000 people bought 15.000 cars, and a large portion of them ordered them a specific feature, and they all complained about that feature... there might be a chance that something is screwed up with that feature. Then you can't just say, "Hey.. if you aren't satisfied with it.. build you own car..."

If the dealer did that to you, and you were one of those customers - you'd be pissed as well.

I'm going to try to use your analogy, but I'm having a hard time making it work.

Imagine if those same people who bought the cars only test drove them on the local paved streets, and then brought them back to the dealership a day later and complained that they were no good at off road trips. That's in effect what is happening here, because you have players who have just recently gotten to the next level in magic, haven't extensively tested it, haven't even remotely tested it in battle situations or when fully leveled up, and now they're here complaining about the numbers without understanding the system or the way damage scales.

The problem lies in the fact that Darkfall's magic system seems to scale much differently, so you can spend days grinding to the next spell, and then get the next spell only to realize that it, at level 1, is inferior to your skill level 70 spell. These players then conclude (without really being informed) that a level 70 version of the new spell will still be inferior to the old one, and thus we get all the pointless complaining.

[Kheiron]

I have 48 spellchanting with like 28-32 durability (don't remember off top of head and not at home right now)... my buff others don't last very long. Maybe 2 minutes and 45 seconds? (Oh and that's versus 2 minutes at skill 1... both using dawnstaff)

I don't see it improving much either heh... maybe they will adjust the timing a little later. Seems useless to have to buff immediately before the fight and barely even have time to get mana back before it wears off =P

That's the bloody point.

Short term, situational buffs, just as the devs have said.
Just before the fight, or even during, buff your DPS casters Intellect, buff your melee friends strength, buff the archers dexterity...

You're not going to be some automaton stacking all buffs on a number of allies well before the fight, then sitting well back from the cross fire and healing.

Play the game and figure it out. Dont keep expecting it to conform to the preconceptions you've picked up from other MMOs.
Buffing doesn't have to be like Pre-CU Docs in SWG to be effective.

[SekZ]

That's the bloody point.

Short term, situational buffs, just as the devs have said.
Just before the fight, or even during, buff your DPS casters Intellect, buff your melee friends strength, buff the archers dexterity...

You're not going to be some automaton stacking all buffs on a number of allies well before the fight, then sitting well back from the cross fire and healing.

Play the game and figure it out. Dont keep expecting it to conform to the preconceptions you've picked up from other MMOs.
Buffing doesn't have to be like Pre-CU Docs in SWG to be effective.

Did you just post that as a joke? or are you serious?

I've played the game a lot more than you, don't tell me to play and figure it out... I'm not some newb fighting trolls... I'm pretty damn familiar with the ins and outs.

As of right now... buffs must be used during or while entering a fight, but the Mana is ALWAYS far more valuable in a fight than any buff you can get through spellchanting.

That is broken.

[Salmuth]

I'd say something obvious but ...

I don't mind if the buff/debuff doesn't last long if it is powerful.
And vice versa:
I don't mind if the buff/debuff is not very powerful (still needs to be effective!) if it lasts long (10min of a minor buff/debuff).


Atm, it seems the buff/debuff aren't powerful at all and don't last long.
This is where the magic is broken IMO.

[Kheiron]

Did you just post that as a joke? or are you serious?

I've played the game a lot more than you, don't tell me to play and figure it out... I'm not some newb fighting trolls... I'm pretty damn familiar with the ins and outs.

As of right now... buffs must be used during or while entering a fight, but the Mana is ALWAYS far more valuable in a fight than any buff you can get through spellchanting.

That is broken.

...You've played the game a lot more then me...

A pretty interesting claim 1 month into the game against a beta tester.

What else are you using the mana for?

[Gaubock]

Having to get Witchcraft to 75 is retarded hard. MAYBE if there was a WC spell that didn't require reagents, it would be more feasible.

But as of now... finding the sheer amount of ashes,bone,resin,etc that you would need to up it to 75 is very time consuming and in the end, probably not worth it.

[Kheiron]

Having to get Witchcraft to 75 is retarded hard. MAYBE if there was a WC spell that didn't require reagents, it would be more feasible.

But as of now... finding the sheer amount of ashes,bone,resin,etc that you would need to up it to 75 is very time consuming and in the end, probably not worth it.

I've managed to get it to 25 on Sluggish and used about 2.5k Resin to do it.
Sluggish leveled to 38 as well.

Switched to Disease, using bone, to try for 50. I'll let you know how that goes.

[metaLoL]

Haha, finally some information! Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Anyone else on spell chanting? How's Sacrifice?

I must know these things! :)

My sacrifice is currently level 60, with a rank 80 staff on it sometimes heals for 10.75 x 4, and takes around 20 hp from the caster. The effect of it is a dagger on the top of the targets head, and has the sound effect of an atomic bomb.

Just so anyone was wondering, i'm spending 1k ash/mandrake, and around 600 resin to gain about 1.8 points in spell chanting at 60+.

[PaleOne]

45 witchcraft! 5 more points and
I can advance a whole new set of useless buffs!

[sweet_tooth]

Needles is a good spell, exhaust far from useless. At 50 get the vitality debuff, if you think droppin someones hp and stam is useless play a archer. People are expecting huge dps from witchcraft I think, which is exactly what you wont get. Withcraft is a skill that will give you massive advantages in small battles like 1v1,2v2. It's meant to win a fight of attrition if you wanna nuke people you picked the wrong school, at least until hitting necro.

[BlueOreo]

My sacrifice is currently level 60, with a rank 80 staff on it sometimes heals for 10.75 x 4, and takes around 20 hp from the caster. The effect of it is a dagger on the top of the targets head, and has the sound effect of an atomic bomb.

Just so anyone was wondering, i'm spending 1k ash/mandrake, and around 600 resin to gain about 1.8 points in spell chanting at 60+.

Thank you very much for the information. That's certainly heartening--the information about sacrifice.

[Ren]

Any thoughts on the ease of raising Witchcraft versus Spellchanting?

At 25 there are numerous Witchcraft spells with a single reagent that reportedly raise WC relatively quickly. My experience with Spellchanting so far is that all the 25 spells are 2x reagents and do not raise SC any quicker than the single reagent level 1 Adept.