Does city building cost too much?

[JimLad]

Opinions?

[uo97to03]

Honestly I think its too little.

Some clans are near complete with their cities, when the game hasn't been out a month. And on top of that, some people aren't even in the game yet. If there was an actual release and clans had full member counts, the cities would of been finished a week or so ago.

[Zenith]

No. Citybuilding is a Huge thing, and it should not be an easy thing to do.

[Darkfire58]

It depends on what you build. It takes 500k gold, 100k wood, and 100k stone to build a foundry in order to make warhulks (To be able to siege and take a city/hamlet). IMO, the requirements for that are insane and definitely require multiple clans weeks of work to make just one so I think that should be lowered by a bit, but everything else should just stay the same. Then again, that would make the foundry a prime target for sieging clans, so I will stay on neutral grounds. :)

[RandT]

It may seem that way, but you don't see the countless hours of camping mobs for gold and materials. It's not easy or fun. A lot of work goes into making a city, and the worse part is there are NO guidelines...so clans are building parts without knowing what building paths to take.

[Grognak]

Yes, especially since 3 weeks of work can be destroyed in less than an hour.

[Ighox]

With the current siege system, yes the price is too high and way too fucking boring.
1 month of insanely boring farming of mobs and the terrible gathering system, but takes an hour or two to destroy isn't my idea of having fun in an MMO.

[Achromic]

With the current siege system, yes the price is too high and way too fucking boring.
1 month of insanely boring farming of mobs and the terrible gathering system, but takes an hour or two to destroy isn't my idea of having fun in an MMO.

Reminds me of Shadowbane, when I did a little research on the history of it in the betas and whatnot.

Seems like a number of guilds particularly a handful. Actively communicated with the developers or had developer friends who change the city building rules so that only the top clans can build cities and not have small clans contest with them. Basically they just had the cities price massively increase especially the down payment on the land plot. As well as the resources required to build not just the buildings but all the add-ons like the walls and other things.

They basically made it so you HAD to hack, cheat, macro to get everything. So small guilds would never succeed in getting a city. And even if they did the destruction of a city and how quickly a city would fall would make them think twice before buying a new one. Basically it would fuck them over so bad they rage-quit the game.

I really think what the original vision of Shadowbane was to have maybe easily to maybe somewhat slightly difficult capability to acquire cities. And basically have consistent shifts in GvG city take overs, where any guild so long as they make an effort can capture one or build one. And the bigger guilds can have increasingly impregnable fortresses which can be centers of extremely long contests. Or so I believe from what I've read.

Seems like Darkfall's siege is similar albeit hopefully without the developer friend's with benefit. It seems like only the top clans or the zergs are the keepers of the cities. It seems like even the small clans band together with larger guilds just for the benefits. The problem I see is that PvP is gonna be turned into a controlled chess game. Basically large scale PvP occurs at certain moments in time. And is not a random cluster-fuck any time, any where goes. That's what I think it could be different but things seem to shape up like another Shadowbane.

[Macetotheface]

Yeah i would say in any game that 20 ppl can build a city in 3 weeks is a little odd.I agree with it needing more resources and money.It should be a task that takes a good sized guild a month or 2 to build a full city(50+clansmen).It gives them something to work hard for,and something to be proud of once completed.Plus the losing the city factor.They will push for heavy recruiting if the stacks are higher=lossing all that they worked for.That and it'll give raiding guilds something to rally thier ppl for.

[Riley]

It costs too much only compared to the ease of it being destroyed, disabled in 3 am raids.

With current game mechanics, destroying is much easier than creating.

[JimLad]

/bump

[Drefarion]

Yeah i would say in any game that 20 ppl can build a city in 3 weeks is a little odd.I agree with it needing more resources and money.It should be a task that takes a good sized guild a month or 2 to build a full city(50+clansmen).It gives them something to work hard for,and something to be proud of once completed.Plus the losing the city factor.They will push for heavy recruiting if the stacks are higher=lossing all that they worked for.That and it'll give raiding guilds something to rally thier ppl for.

You don't have a idea what the fuck your talking about.

[Frisca]

It costs too much only compared to the ease of it being destroyed, disabled in 3 am raids.

With current game mechanics, destroying is much easier than creating.

I think that this is intended to mimic real life somewhat... The problem is not how easy buildings go down, rather how easy it is for people to attack them in the first place.
If you have 2 zerg clans fighting it out, each of them owning a city then this problem goes away as each is just as vulnerable. The problem comes when you have Clan A with a big nice city and Clan B with NO SETTLEMENT. At this point, clan B can declare war on the Clan A and shoot/destroy a building each day.
What does that clan stand to loose? Nothing. The issue is that you have 2 forces fighting each other were 1 force stands to loose a lot, while the 2nd one can do a lot of damage but stands to loose NOTHING.
There needs to be an alignment system for clans. When a clan that has no settlement attacks one with a city (initiates the war), the one without the city should have something to loose. For example they would be targeted by towers in any npc city... or something like that.

EDIT: During the cold war this was known as MAD and it was the public strategy of SAC (Strategic Air Command). MAD stands for Mutual Assured Destruction. The concept was that if the USSR attacked any European NATO member, the US would respond with a nuclear attack. This kept things in relative safety as neither side wanted to loose so much (all of it?).
This is exactly what makes the current "terrorist threat" such a pain in the ass. They can attack but they can't really be attacked in return. Same thing happens in Darkfall.

[Shrang]

Frisca... that is already taken into consideration.

[Thundertrod]

Reminds me of Shadowbane, when I did a little research on the history of it in the betas and whatnot.

Seems like a number of guilds particularly a handful. Actively communicated with the developers or had developer friends who change the city building rules so that only the top clans can build cities and not have small clans contest with them. Basically they just had the cities price massively increase especially the down payment on the land plot. As well as the resources required to build not just the buildings but all the add-ons like the walls and other things.

They basically made it so you HAD to hack, cheat, macro to get everything. So small guilds would never succeed in getting a city. And even if they did the destruction of a city and how quickly a city would fall would make them think twice before buying a new one. Basically it would fuck them over so bad they rage-quit the game.

I really think what the original vision of Shadowbane was to have maybe easily to maybe somewhat slightly difficult capability to acquire cities. And basically have consistent shifts in GvG city take overs, where any guild so long as they make an effort can capture one or build one. And the bigger guilds can have increasingly impregnable fortresses which can be centers of extremely long contests. Or so I believe from what I've read.

Seems like Darkfall's siege is similar albeit hopefully without the developer friend's with benefit. It seems like only the top clans or the zergs are the keepers of the cities. It seems like even the small clans band together with larger guilds just for the benefits. The problem I see is that PvP is gonna be turned into a controlled chess game. Basically large scale PvP occurs at certain moments in time. And is not a random cluster-fuck any time, any where goes. That's what I think it could be different but things seem to shape up like another Shadowbane.

Having played shadowbane from last to weeks of beta till current day, I say you have no idea what your talking about. Shadowbane has small guilds owening citys from the veray begining. For the first cople of years there was not even a limit outher space to how many citys there could be.

Allso Citys in shadowbane only requierd mony to build no resorses and gold in shadowbane was vary easy to get masive amounts off. The bigist change to sidge sistom in shdowbane over the years was adding spires to the game that made walls matter. and gave small a medums sized guilds a better chance to defend there citys from zergs

Becuse the spires made so that the bane was fought from the out side in. prespires bane were fought from the inside out like thay are in Darkfall. Taking a city in darkfall is pure zerg love you camp the bindstone to kill the people who respawen. and have a army of battel spikers and cannoners destary the stone.

[tartrus]

nar i think there cost is fine..... i just think its to easy to destroy em

[Kez]

IMHO I think they need to take seige hammers out, or at least make them do less damage towards buildings. Honestly, this would make the econemy increase as far as the selling of warhulks and other seige weapons. as of right now if you get 30 or 40 people to run in and just start hammering at everything you'll easily lose your city. This has to change. Also the fact that there are no gates on the clan entrances is retarted, what's the point of building them? most times you can just find another way to walk around.

Seige hammers should only be usefull against warhulks, other than that they should do little to nothing. I mean seriously think about it. Can a hammer really take down a WHOLE building? it can damage it of course but it shouldn't be able to take done the whole damn thing either. Also hitting at any spot shouldn't allow it get hurt, they should have to attack the foundation, i.e. on the mirdain archtecture, the trees are the founddation.

[Asolar]

The cost is okay as it is. The problem is that the siege system is very bad. With no gates and the fact that a building goes down to fast is bad. If they fix this, like with a bane system as in shadowbane. Then we be golden.

But if they keep a current system, where you basicly can zerg a city by running straight in. And making night raids so there are no defenders. Well then the prices for a city is way high. And i think would make many leave the game.

In SB even 2 guys could build a city, since gold duping exitet from the very beginning and really destroyed the game (together with sb.exe/lag)
But they really did make a great siege system.

[nmc09331]

Comon... you can start to be honnest now.
Clans who have the 9 wonder cities AFK macroed for the mats.
You know that as well as I do.

[Temko Firewing]

Building a city easy? HELL NO.

With over 100 people contributing nearly 100% of everything they farm, kill, make and do to the city to the point of having no money to buy skills for character advancemen it is possile to have your city finished "80%" for now.

that said most cities are only "halfway" there with the basics available like a keep, clan workbench, maybe a farm/mine/quary/etc.. and the walls.

that said a few guild HAVE exploited the system and gained a great ammount of money of it.

as it stands the only thing broken is the current siege mechanic as it stands. but with protection shards coming, 3 AM raids should be a thing of hte past for most of hte "good" guilds.