Fair PVP vs BS PVP

[TrikkyMakk]

Having your horse kick back and deal huge amounts of damage and the rider not be flagged is bullshit.

Being able to attack someone in a party without being flagged is bullshit.

Intentionally running into your swing just so you can be flagged so that they can attack you without penalty is bullshit.

Not once has someone come and just tried to gank me. It is always some shitty game mechanic being exploited.

Say what you want (this post is for the devs although they probably think their game rocks) but the only people who seem to be killing people are the ones exploiting the game mechanics of this game. Maybe some people like this kind of stuff but I think there are a lot who don't. I am not complaining about pvp as I like pvp. I don't like it when people exploit shitty game mechanics in order to take advantage though.

They need to seriously consider the alignment and how players go rogue or just remove it flat out so you can defend yourself. Its not fair that people who are attacked are not the ones being penalized.

[SweChef]

Having your horse kick back and deal huge amounts of damage and the rider not be flagged is bullshit.

But you can hit the mount without being flagged

Being able to attack someone in a party without being flagged is bullshit.
Be more careful who you party with. Some random guy throws out a party invite *hmm... I wonder what he can be up to?*


Intentionally running into your swing just so you can be flagged so that they can attack you without penalty is bullshit.
That is more of a human fault than computer. If you don't get flagged for hitting another player, when should you get flagged? There will always be a way to exploit the system..

Its not fair that people who are attacked are not the ones being penalized.
Can agree to that. Get a clan and start making examples. or just grief them back. :)

[TrikkyMakk]

But you can hit the mount without being flagged


Be more careful who you party with. Some random guy throws out a party invite *hmm... I wonder what he can be up to?*


That is more of a human fault than computer. If you don't get flagged for hitting another player, when should you get flagged? There will always be a way to exploit the system..

Can agree to that. Get a clan and start making examples. or just grief them back. :)

The third one I know is kind of unavoidable. But the first two I think are legit. Having to deal with a guy on a horse who can just wait until you are down low in health and then come up and gank you by having his horse read kick you without any penalty though is ridiculous. And I know not to party now with people you don't know but it is still bullshit.

MY OPINION is that if you are going to have an alignment system that penalizes certain kinds of ganking then lets have a REAL alignment system. Or as I have said just get rid of it completely and we can then just quake it out. But when people are defending themselves because they are attacked out of nowhere and the person being attacked is penalized then its just bullshit.

Also, thanks for not flaming. My problem with a clan is that I have barely just got in and have not had a whole lot of time to research a clan (much less how to do a lot of stuff in the game). BUt seeing how 99% of this community has been and how I have only been attacked by people exploiting the game there is a good chance I will just wait and find another mmo. I have waited this long for DFO and I hope it is successful because then some other game company will probably come along and fill in the gaps I am talking about.

[Enjaku]

Aww.

[Maas]

If you join parties and get ganked enough for this to be an issue, bind /partyleave to a key.

As for mount kicks, they are very easy to avoid. If a guy is slowly backing his mount up to you, move!

[TrikkyMakk]

Aww.

Aww what?

[TrikkyMakk]

If you join parties and get ganked enough for this to be an issue, bind /partyleave to a key.

As for mount kicks, they are very easy to avoid. If a guy is slowly backing his mount up to you, move!

This exploiting game mechanics. What you are saying is treating symptoms, not curing the disease. What if I am just sitting there resting, the guy runs up on his horse and kicks me and I die? No penalty for him. And that is BS. He is doing it to avoid the penalty. It doesn't make sense to me.

I didn't know what the key to leave the party was but again I think this is BS. If it is a friend then they don't have to finish you off. IF it is not a friend then you should be able to report him and he should get an alignment hit.

But again we both have our own opinions.

[ipos]

Having your horse kick back and deal huge amounts of damage and the rider not be flagged is bullshit.

Agreed, needs to be fixed

Being able to attack someone in a party without being flagged is bullshit.

Not really an issue, new players should be made aware of it though.

Intentionally running into your swing just so you can be flagged so that they can attack you without penalty is bullshit.

Agreed this is silly but a bit harder to fix. Only good solution that I could think of this moment would be that any single hit would be excused unless,

1) No other player has attacked you for the last 30 or so seconds, this is to avoid having 10 people giving you one swing each without being flagged.

2) The blow isn't lethal.

Not once has someone come and just tried to gank me. It is always some shitty game mechanic being exploited.

You could always leave the safe areas...

- I agree otherwise though, this game has serious issues with its mechanics and the alignment system as a whole is just total fail.

[McDoogs]

There will always be people who will exploit game mechanics for gain. Deal with it by avoiding those loopholes or continue to be a victim.

[Zonack]

Having your horse kick back and deal huge amounts of damage and the rider not be flagged is bullshit.

They are goddamn slow, easy to avoid. Don't go AFK, simple enough, yes it needs fixing but no biggie still.

Being able to attack someone in a party without being flagged is bullshit.

I bet you have got owned by parties near starter towns.. get the fuck out of newbie areas and this won't be a problem

Intentionally running into your swing just so you can be flagged so that they can attack you without penalty is bullshit.

You just need to be careful there, if there is a guy that wants you to hit him, you just don't pull your luck

Not once has someone come and just tried to gank me. It is always some shitty game mechanic being exploited.

You saying you are all badass and only people who ''exploit'' the above have killed you? Hmm yeah right.



Oh yeah, QQ more pls!

[Nunz]

Please don't consider threads like this when patching the game.... These idiots will just ruin it for the rest of us.

[Ker Laeda]

TrikkyMakk,

being able to hit your groupmate without becoming grey is probably the best thing in alignment system (if there is such working properly) in this game. You probably haven't been pvp'ing or pve'in in groups long enough yet, but you will see how many chances there are that you will be able to accidentaly hit your group mate with magic skills in skirmish. Are you sure you really want to go rogue for hours after that?

[Atheki]

Having your horse kick back and deal huge amounts of damage and the rider not be flagged is bullshit.
I agree on this point. This should be changed.

[TrikkyMakk]

TrikkyMakk,

being able to hit your groupmate without becoming grey is probably the best thing in alignment system (if there is such working properly) in this game. You probably haven't been pvp'ing or pve'in in groups long enough yet, but you will see how many chances there are that you will be able to accidentaly hit your group mate with magic skills in skirmish. Are you sure you really want to go rogue for hours after that?

I am saying you should have the option of reporting them at least for the situation I mentioned. You can always forgive them as well if they kill you.

[TrikkyMakk]

Please don't consider threads like this when patching the game.... These idiots will just ruin it for the rest of us.

So you are basically saying aggressors who are attacking their own race shouldn't be penalized but the person being attacked would. You are probably one of the ones trying to do this to people.

[TrikkyMakk]

Oh yeah, QQ more pls!

No I am not saying I am total badass. Actually quite the opposite. I have a busy schedule and with the queues and sync issues that WERE occurring I am not actually ready to leave the newbie areas yet.

And what I am saying as well is that the only people so far who have actually tried to or actually killed me are people who were either speed hacking OR exploiting the game mechanics so that they remain blue while they kill me.

That is the message of this thread. They either need to make it so that if you are attacked by your own race that the attacker goes rogue so you can defend yourself OR get rid of the penalties (and the alignment system altogether) so that you can defend yourself. Getting penalized for defending yourself is bullshit.

[TrikkyMakk]

Oh yeah, QQ more pls!

And I forgot to mention I wasn't afk (although sometimes people have to because real life happens to intervene sometimes). The game is intentionally designed so that it is difficult to see around you 360 degrees unless resting. I saw the guy come up next to me but didn't know that this particular exploit existed. Common sense would dictate that the guy on the horse would go rogue for attacking me.

[Arkh]

Having your horse kick back and deal huge amounts of damage and the rider not be flagged is bullshit.

Being able to attack someone in a party without being flagged is bullshit.

Intentionally running into your swing just so you can be flagged so that they can attack you without penalty is bullshit.

Not once has someone come and just tried to gank me. It is always some shitty game mechanic being exploited.

Say what you want (this post is for the devs although they probably think their game rocks) but the only people who seem to be killing people are the ones exploiting the game mechanics of this game. Maybe some people like this kind of stuff but I think there are a lot who don't. I am not complaining about pvp as I like pvp. I don't like it when people exploit shitty game mechanics in order to take advantage though.

They need to seriously consider the alignment and how players go rogue or just remove it flat out so you can defend yourself. Its not fair that people who are attacked are not the ones being penalized.
Group with players you know. Second problem solved, and third one too if 10 guys hit on one fucker's back at the same time, he won't come again.

Ah ! And get out of newbie towns.

[TrikkyMakk]

Group with players you know. Second problem solved, and third one too if 10 guys hit on one fucker's back at the same time, he won't come again.

Ah ! And get out of newbie towns.

This is not solving the problems, only treating symptoms with bad workarounds. They need to make a viable system or get rid of the system altogether.

Again I don't have a problem with pvp. I like it and I can take it. What I don't like is that you are not able to defend yourself without penalty and these people are exploiting the system to attack people in ways that prevent them from being flagged and often times would cause you to be flagged should you decide to defend yourself.

[Mumbochicken]

Having your horse kick back and deal huge amounts of damage and the rider not be flagged is bullshit.
If they fix it so you get flagged when attacking a mount then this should also be fixed. The way it is right now though just kill their mount if they try to do this to you and they will stop.

Being able to attack someone in a party without being flagged is bullshit.
This is fine the way it is. Why should you get flagged for attacking someone in your party? You choose who you party with and can leave the party at any time. If someone starts attacking you, leave the party and they will be flagged. Or like others have said don't party with people you don't know.

Intentionally running into your swing just so you can be flagged so that they can attack you without penalty is bullshit.
This is really only a problem around starter areas. The current system isn't great, but then again most of the solutions proposed to fix this have just as many other ways to kill people without penalty in them. If you see someone trying to do this, stop swinging after you hit them once. They aren't going to kill you in 10 seconds very easily and if you parry during that time it is even harder.

[Darwoth]

when a horse attacks an innocent with its rear kick or frontal attack it does flag you gray, none of you know what your talking about. this newb probably grouped with someone or got owned by a warring guild on a mount.

[TrikkyMakk]

when a horse attacks an innocent with its rear kick or frontal attack it does flag you gray, none of you know what your talking about. this newb probably grouped with someone or got owned by a warring guild on a mount.

I am new to the game but not a noob. The guy used his horse to attack me and the horse was grey (I think they are always grey though). He on the other hand was still blue. I was not in a group, I was resting as I had just got done killing a mob and my char is weak right now so one mob is enough to take me down a lot. I am not in a clan as I have explained because I have not had enough time to research one yet. I have only taken my character out for a few test spins as I work for a living, have kids and go to the gym every day after work. The endless queues and sync problems had exasperated this and so I am just getting to actually play a little during this week (like twice).

[pongo]

Not once has someone come and just tried to gank me. It is always some shitty game mechanic being exploited.

MSG me in-game and I will fix this for you.

[TrikkyMakk]

MSG me in-game and I will fix this for you.

Yea but you are always hanging out under the forum bridge demanding the gold from people passing by aren't you?

[Capricious]

when a horse attacks an innocent with its rear kick or frontal attack it does flag you gray, none of you know what your talking about. this newb probably grouped with someone or got owned by a warring guild on a mount.

I was reading this thread wondering "wtf, I thought you flag when you kick".

If they allow people to attack mounts without getting flagged, the mount should be able to kick back without the rider getting flagged.

[Kaiwai]

I was reading this thread wondering "wtf, I thought you flag when you kick".

If they allow people to attack mounts without getting flagged, the mount should be able to kick back without the rider getting flagged.


You do flag when you kick. Something I have noticed is if you kill someone with the kick there is a 10-15 second delay on the loss of alignment, and rogue status.

Unbelievable that you want to change parties so that you flag when you FF. Just unbelievable.

And, if you're hitting other players who run in front of you...stop hitting them. They make PvE harder, but you can easily just be more careful. If you hit them once, just hold down parry for 10 seconds. No big deal.

[Kaiwai]

I was reading this thread wondering "wtf, I thought you flag when you kick".

If they allow people to attack mounts without getting flagged, the mount should be able to kick back without the rider getting flagged.


You do flag when you kick. Something I have noticed is if you kill someone with the kick there is a 10-15 second delay on the loss of alignment, and rogue status.

Unbelievable that you want to change parties so that you flag when you FF. Just unbelievable.

And, if you're hitting other players who run in front of you...stop hitting them. They make PvE harder, but you can easily just be more careful. If you hit them once, just hold down parry for 10 seconds. No big deal.



Edit: Capricious, that movie in your sig is so good.

[Crindle]

Leave the nooby area. It is like a slime infested maggot's nest in your neck.

The one about the mount kicking you, I would agree on that one. He should be flagged and go grey.


The rest is your fault really, and for the time being avoid horses and mounts backing up onto you. The other party you can't trust anyone. Your slashes and people jumping infront, learn to aim and not have a chance for a person to do that.


I went grey, if they chase after you run until u turn back blue. Pretty soon you get used to it, and actually kill a blue attacking you or at least I learned.

The only people to watch out for are the weak alfar guilds that come grief the noob spawns, because they can't really pvp. Forgot the name, but they should know who they are. Btw when I was in nooby land they never killed me with 4 vs1 one of them being a mount, and had arrows, spells, and polearms.

You will learn, but leave noob area, and join a clan.

[TrikkyMakk]

Leave the nooby area. It is like a slime infested maggot's nest in your neck.

The one about the mount kicking you, I would agree on that one. He should be flagged and go grey.


The rest is your fault really, and for the time being avoid horses and mounts backing up onto you. The other party you can't trust anyone. Your slashes and people jumping infront, learn to aim and not have a chance for a person to do that.


I went grey, if they chase after you run until u turn back blue. Pretty soon you get used to it, and actually kill a blue attacking you or at least I learned.

The only people to watch out for are the weak alfar guilds that come grief the noob spawns, because they can't really pvp. Forgot the name, but they should know who they are. Btw when I was in nooby land they never killed me with 4 vs1 one of them being a mount, and had arrows, spells, and polearms.

You will learn, but leave noob area, and join a clan.

As I have said the main point is that attackers should get flagged. If someone attacks a horse that someone is riding then that person who attacked should also be flagged. Even the party thing you should be able to report them if you chose (or NOT report them if you chose but the choice should be there).

And I ma looking for a clan but as stated before I am just now getting a little bit of time to research which ones I would be interested in.

[TrikkyMakk]

You do flag when you kick. Something I have noticed is if you kill someone with the kick there is a 10-15 second delay on the loss of alignment, and rogue status.


If this is the case then I didn't see it. This may be because as I was running away (I just a little health and stamina) the guy attacking me got attacked by that npc pk that rides around. Then it came and killed me. It all happened quickly. And for the record, I did start to attack his horse but like I said I was low on health and so when I tried to kite him he had disappeared (and like I said gotten killed I assume by the npc pk on horse).

[Crindle]

Just play man, and you will learn. That is like a right of passage, maybe dumb or bugged or what not, but once you leave and find any clan you will enjoy the game. You are in the bottom of the barrel, get out of town.

[TrikkyMakk]

Just play man, and you will learn. That is like a right of passage, maybe dumb or bugged or what not, but once you leave and find any clan you will enjoy the game. You are in the bottom of the barrel, get out of town.

I understand. I haven't quit yet. I just want to state what I think they need to do. They try to say game is supposed to be so free but when you can't defend yourself fairly I don't like it. But I hear ya and I have finally started looking at the clans in the forums.

[DarkFallFan69]

they need to make this games alignment system like ultima onlines alignment system, for example:

if player A is rogue/red and player B attacks player A, player B is rogue to player A, so player A can defend himself.

if player A damages player B and goes rogue in the process, player A gets an alignment hit if player B dies within 2 minutes.

if player A attacks a rogue player B right before player B loses his rogue status, player B is rogue only to player A while player B is blue to everyone else.

this is known in uo as arggressor flagging and is a pretty good system.

the alignment system in this game is so much hot easily exploitable garbage that shouldn't have come out of even early beta. like 10 guys can rape someone and only the guy who got the last hit will take the alignment penalty, and none at all if a monster did the last hit (ROFL). faggots will sit there and hit you in the back every 10 seconds to drain your life/stamina. you can be red wanting to get alignment to go blue and you cant even defend yourself when people attack you or youll take an alignment hit.

so yeah, this simplistic mickey mouse system needs a total rewrite.

[Jacques]

Too much lag for some players and no lag for others somehow.

These Murder Herders always love to cry about how "unfair" it is when we beat them down and the OP is no exception

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=165830

[TrikkyMakk]

These Murder Herders always love to cry about how "unfair" it is when we beat them down and the OP is no exception

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=165830

No dude. You haven't read what I have been saying. You should not be penalized for defending yourself.

Go back under your bridge and read the thread some more.

[Ozkar67]

The only thing I see is you not leaving the starter area. I hate the alfar starter area, it's annoying full of idiots, and a bunch of other fun things. It also makes me sad that I have to go ninja loot everyones shit because it is done to me. Anyways I finally hit 50 greater and today i'm gonna buy my spells and peace the fk out once again.



Short version-

Leave the starter towns and join a guild.

[RagnarRocks]

Not once has someone come and just tried to gank me. It is always some shitty game mechanic being exploited.

Obviously our characters have never met. Where can I find you in game? I'm not scared of going rogue for 2 minutes. PM me when you go mining.

[TrikkyMakk]

Obviously our characters have never met. Where can I find you in game? I'm not scared of going rogue for 2 minutes. PM me when you go mining.

What is the point of saying this? It has nothing to do with this thread.

I am very happy for you that you are not scared of going rogue for 2 minutes though. You are obviously the toughest player on the server. I will be sure to look for you under your bridge.

[Irokky]

The party this is not a issue, maybe a gameplay choice you disagree with but even as you said, all that is important is that you can fairly defend yourself if someone attacks you. Which you can do if someone in your party attacks you. Where is the issue with that, while your forgive or punish system isnt horrid, it is just excessive. Too much work for too little change in gameplay.

I am not ingame so I cannot state the effects of mounts attacking and attacking mounts, but if the play doesnt go grey, and you dont go grey for attacking the mount then just kill the mount, I would hope thiat is pretty easy to do if the player isnt attacking you while you attack his mount.

If you go grey for attacking the mount then that is a issue, and needs to be fixed.


While it may not always be fun to get beat down, look at your overall values over the system in your case you said its all about being able to fairly defend yourself without taking a alignment hit, which you can. So what is the problem?

[TrikkyMakk]

While it may not always be fun to get beat down, look at your overall values over the system in your case you said its all about being able to fairly defend yourself without taking a alignment hit, which you can. So what is the problem?

That is just it. There are certain cases where you can be attacked and if you fight back you are the one who gets flagged. If they are going to have a penalty system then it should be fair. Or as I have said, get rid of it so that it is fair. You will find a lot of people actually agree with me that the alignment \ rogue system could use some overhaul.

[evolyze]

Only thing I agree with is the mount not flagging, in addition people who shoot at mounts need to be flagged also... I bet 20 lizards on a stick this will be corrected next patch.

[TrikkyMakk]

Only thing I agree with is the mount not flagging, in addition people who shoot at mounts need to be flagged also... I bet 20 lizards on a stick this will be corrected next patch.

Do they have lizards in this game? What about sticks? :D What if my F key stops working?

[bock1]

Move out of the protected areas and you'll be ganked plenty. Ive honestly not had to worry about going rogue since the first day of the server, and then mostly because people were sync-invis and I was sparring with a mate.

Imo, the real problem isnt the alignment but the damn towers they felt they needed to add to every second wilderness bank and NPC town. Sure, the starter towns could have these protections I guess but why would you need them further along the game!? I hated the patch when these towers were added.

[Irokky]

That is just it. There are certain cases where you can be attacked and if you fight back you are the one who gets flagged. If they are going to have a penalty system then it should be fair. Or as I have said, get rid of it so that it is fair. You will find a lot of people actually agree with me that the alignment \ rogue system could use some overhaul.

Which part though, the situations you described where the defender got flagged are inaccurate.

Those being a mount attacking you, where you can defend yourself by attacking the mount without flagging.

The issue of party members attacking you, you can freely defend yourself against them without flagging just as they can attack you without flagging.

Finally the last issue you talked about was the problem of people jumping in front of your blows. While this is a pain, it is avoided by either being more careful with your attacks or being more aware and not letting someone do it twice in 10 seconds. This is the only issue that you need to work around the alignment system, however it is inevitable concerning and issue of going rogue when you attack another player even accidently.

[shaystamang]

I trust that aventurine will fix any exploitable problems. as for the rest qq.

[FASLAYER]

You deffinately flag when you hit/kill someone with the mount kick.

[Gaseousd]

Are you sure he was not a hostile race?? He would not "go grey" if that was the case.

[TrikkyMakk]

Are you sure he was not a hostile race?? He would not "go grey" if that was the case.

No I am not 100% sure. Someone did say in this thread that there is a delay though. From the looks he was same race as me but to be honest I am not 100% sure. I have't seen anyone but my race though outside the newbie areas (which I finally just left).