The worst spell tree in the game.

[arghysteelwill]

Greater magic.

You are forced to use 'rend' which you will never use again and are given the choice between rend or even worse spells that you will never use again. At 25 your given a marginally better spell, 'heal other' which you can atleast farm for unlike bone which is horrible to solo farm for but your still using a spell that you most likely wont use often.

Greater magic needs its mana missile, move heal other to level 1 and no regents. You'll be able to have dedicated healers and greater magic will now have a spell that gets you to 50 without forcing you to sell your body for regents.

Regents do not stop macroing and it is still a major grind for the elemental trees, my guild mate gos through 5k sulfur a night for 1 skill gain on fire magic.

[Furyos]

my guild mate gos through 5k sulfur a night for 1 skill gain on fire magic.

no he doesn't

[Villa]

my guild mate gos through 5k sulfur a night for 1 skill gain on fire magic.
ROFL.
Misinformation for teh lose.

However, I do agree that heal other should be a reagent-free level 1 spell.

[arghysteelwill]

Paging sulfur hungry docan to the thread! tell us of your wonderful adventures at attempting to reach level 40 fire magic.

[Monndane]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oWAb5NVALw&feature=related

[Beltara]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI3cocbIsto

In other news still trying to decide between fire and water. Greater Magic spells sure do suck compared to lesser even.

[topets123]

You can use Rend! regents is 1 bone
Alright?

[arghysteelwill]

You can use Rend! regents is 1 bone
Alright?

Then never ever use it again once you get 25/50 greater magic. Why should it be ok to learn a completely useless spell? you'll always use heal self and mana missile so that gets you to 50 LM but your forced to use rend which is an extremely sub par spell to begin with and once you get 25/50 GM you'll never use it again due to far better spells being available with universal regents.

When you get a new spell you should be able to say 'this spell has a use and i will continue using it', sure you may get better spells that replace it but you'll always have a reason to go back to it. In a game like darkfall you should never encounter an unwanted skill or spell that your forced to deal with until you get what you want.

[NurfedRekuul]

Then never ever use it again once you get 25/50 greater magic. Why should it be ok to learn a completely useless spell? you'll always use heal self and mana missile so that gets you to 50 LM but your forced to use rend which is an extremely sub par spell to begin with and once you get 25/50 GM you'll never use it again due to far better spells being available with universal regents.

When you get a new spell you should be able to say 'this spell has a use and i will continue using it', sure you may get better spells that replace it but you'll always have a reason to go back to it. In a game like darkfall you should never encounter an unwanted skill or spell that your forced to deal with until you get what you want.

People will rail at you, declare you an idiot, and tell you that you don't understand how in Darkfall magic isnt really a 'grind', that you're just doing it wrong.

But those people are idiots. You are absolutely right. Game design 101 - don't give players useless crap that they have to use just to get to stuff they actually want.

Its not fun, its tedious and irritating.

[Harry998]

25 to 50 GM, what spells using what reagent can you use? rend/bone, heal other/mandrake, beacon/ash, anything else?

[Morguhl]

Frailty is working. Not useless and gets you to 50 easy. Heal Other does the same. I agree, GM is the worst thing to level up, but its the only timesink i have seen so far, once you reach the elemental schools, magery gets very funny.

[ePeen]

Frailty is working. Not useless and gets you to 50 easy. Heal Other does the same. I agree, GM is the worst thing to level up, but its the only timesink i have seen so far, once you reach the elemental schools, magery gets very funny.

What do you mean by funny?

[Aramir]

Rend is very weak. MM at level 1 does on average 8-10 damage and AoE effect. Rend at level 1 does 12 damage DoT and no AoE - its in more difficult school and it require reagent, having less usability than MM ???

I would say keep rend as it is, but make it reagent-free spell.

Heal other is ok at level 25.

At least people will have choice to either use MM that does instant damage or rend that does 20% more damage but over 8s time. We wont see mages spamming MM all the time :)


-edit-

Isnt beacon useless too ? All I know is it creates some smoke that does nothing. Maybe make it reagent-free too, so mages can do some fireworks to entertrain people? :)
Unless Im wrong and this spell has some use.

[Moshland]

What do you mean by funny?

like funny haha?

[Niburu]

Hmm but i see some problems here too. In the feature list and in the trailer is one core element the free character creation. You can pick up every spell if you want. So it is okay that you must grind lesser to 50 to understand how to use magic. But after this a mage should be free to use his prefered school and don't must grind 100h through spells/spell school's that they doesn't use again...........

[Ren]

"The worst school in the game" and I opened the thread expecting to read about Spell Chanting! (Which is easily the winner of that contest pre 75 skill.)

Heal Other is a perfect compliment to the zero-skill Lay On Hands in Lesser. For the dedicated healer types they can level both LM and GM by simply casting two stacking heals. Or if you hate GM so much switch into Witchcraft or Spell Chanting at 25- but its the same grind with a different name.

[bradnor]

Unburden is also good. 25GM and allows you to wear armor while casting. Also requires simply mandrake. I have 24GM right now and really REALLY want 25 for heal other/unburden

[Ulin]

Rend is useless?

at 50+ skill i get 8x2.5 damage and 8x0.9 stamina drain besides the slash debuff with the NOOB staff!!

thats 20 damage....with one bone ! the easiest mat to get from mobs...

with a rank 20-30-40 staff...that can go up to even 30 dps per hit..

the only prob with it is you cant stack it due to cooldown..15 secs.

[inademv]

Hmm but i see some problems here too. In the feature list and in the trailer is one core element the free character creation. You can pick up every spell if you want. So it is okay that you must grind lesser to 50 to understand how to use magic. But after this a mage should be free to use his prefered school and don't must grind 100h through spells/spell school's that they doesn't use again...........

The reason they have you go through greater magic to get to the elemental trees and the reason they have it such a trek to do so is so that not every character in the game will have elemental magic.

[Feyrband]

GM contains the game's greatest harass spell, Beacon. i'm not sure how the tree with most hillarious spell in game can be considered the worst. well i take that back... but Beacon still pwns.

[Feyrband]

Rend is useless?

at 50+ skill i get 8x2.5 damage and 8x0.9 stamina drain besides the slash debuff with the NOOB staff!!

the only prob with it is you cant stack it due to cooldown..15 secs.

its actually piercing debuff, and you can stack the debuff for a short amount of time, though the 2nd one only debuffs .2 instead of 1.0

[Merlin-DDi]

Rend is mainly a pierce debuff.

Stop comparing it like it should be a 1shot killing spell.
God forbid this game turns into a single click winbutton thing.... divercity is good!

[Azzerhoden]

People will rail at you, declare you an idiot, and tell you that you don't understand how in Darkfall magic isnt really a 'grind', that you're just doing it wrong.

But those people are idiots. You are absolutely right. Game design 101 - don't give players useless crap that they have to use just to get to stuff they actually want.

Its not fun, its tedious and irritating.

Game Design 102: Making something hard adds value to the sense of accomplishment, and weeds out those who are merely interested in playing in easy mode.

[Narcowski]

Game Design 102: Making something hard adds value to the sense of accomplishment, and weeds out those who are merely interested in playing in easy mode.

This.

I, for one, and glad to see some would-be mages giving up. Means (among other things) reagent prices will come down.

[Agge]

This.

I, for one, and glad to see some would-be mages giving up. Means (among other things) reagent prices will come down.

Hear hear, infact at this rate people will have 100 in any chosen end school in another 2 weeks or something, but then they will still have to level al the spells they like.

[Narcowski]

Hear hear, infact at this rate people will have 100 in any chosen end school in another 2 weeks or something, but then they will still have to level al the spells they like.

Eh, it's going to be longer than two weeks for most. Maybe a few players by 2 weeks, but honestly everyone is struggling with regs.

You have to keep in mind that 90-100 in any given school is around the same amount of work as 1-90.

[littl6fact]

Beacon is used for calling targets... if you can cast it on one... however it is also really fun to go into starter towns and cast it on noobs who then proceed to run around like chickens with their heads cut off wondering what the fuck is going on

[inademv]

Beacon is used for calling targets... if you can cast it on one... however it is also really fun to go into starter towns and cast it on noobs who then proceed to run around like chickens with their heads cut off wondering what the fuck is going on

I use it for tracking runners through cities. Tag them with it and let them burn the extra stam sprinting away just to be found a couple seconds later.

[EastWizard]

Not all greater magic spells are useless. Heal Other, Unburden are useful. But Yes, Rend and Beacon are pretty weak. But they are starting spells for GM so why should it powerful?

[qijo]

Rend also lowers protection against piercing attacks. Polearm and Archery are considered piercing. Rend inst that bad its just hard to land b/c no aoe. I hate MM i rather shoot an arrow or save my mana for mana to stamina or heal. Also people need to realize that lesser and greater magic are really shine for hybrid mage/warrior characters. I think rend is the fighters MM while MM is the cheap offensive spell a mage needs.

/ 2 cents

[Thyometha]

Beacon is my favorite spell. Very annoying.

[DwellerBelow]

I think it takes a certain kind of perspective on the players behalf to understand and appreciate the utility of a spell that takes 2 reags and does no damage. Beacon is BS.

[Tyriak]

Rend is useless?

at 50+ skill i get 8x2.5 damage and 8x0.9 stamina drain besides the slash debuff with the NOOB staff!!

thats 20 damage....with one bone ! the easiest mat to get from mobs...

with a rank 20-30-40 staff...that can go up to even 30 dps per hit..

the only prob with it is you cant stack it due to cooldown..15 secs.

Damage Per Second per hit?

[smason]

Rend is great to use. Pop a rend the fraility and, using daggers the mob will drop fast.

It's a good spell if you use it to your advantage.

[arghysteelwill]

Dear god is any forum related to darkfall doomed to fail?

So your saying rend is great! i'll use rend forever!, why would you farm bone when you have fire bolt that does 36+ damage with no cool down? I keep fucking saying no one will use rend after 50 GM theres simply no point it eats up to much mana and a regent to do 12% more damage then mana missile.

You'll always use mana missile, you'll always use heal self thats why you start off with those 2 spells in lesser magic. You dont start off with that useless magic shield or eldrich sphere because your not going to be using those spells when you get the other schools. We have the choice of rend/beacon/unburden/heal other, your telling me that when you have 100 of an elemental magic tree that you will still be casting those spells?

The question should be what will make you use these spells with 100 skill in the better trees? Heal other at GM 1 with no regents is the answer, your no longer forced to get these crap spells that you dont want but you can if you want them.

[Kaiwai]

My rend is around 61 or 62, and with a Traitor's Glory it ticks for around 3.25, with stam ticks at .95 or .9. Good spell for PVP imo.

[Kaiwai]

why farm bone when you have fire bolt that does 36+ damage with no cool down? I keep fucking saying no one will use rend after 50 GM



You'll always use mana missile

Stopped reading here, don't understand your logic. Bone is insanely easy to get, 2gp a piece or farm 150 an hour yourself.

[arghysteelwill]

Yeah mana is also easy to get, i'd so rather cast rend for the same mana as firebolt! i mean i dont care if it uses a regent that no other spell uses! i'll farm for that on the side!

Do you by chance think macros are hacks to? we can make a little island community for your types... far away from everyone else.

[Sonn Fere]

Greater magic.

You are forced to use 'rend' which you will never use again and are given the choice between rend or even worse spells that you will never use again. At 25 your given a marginally better spell, 'heal other' which you can atleast farm for unlike bone which is horrible to solo farm for but your still using a spell that you most likely wont use often.

Greater magic needs its mana missile, move heal other to level 1 and no regents. You'll be able to have dedicated healers and greater magic will now have a spell that gets you to 50 without forcing you to sell your body for regents.

Regents do not stop macroing and it is still a major grind for the elemental trees, my guild mate gos through 5k sulfur a night for 1 skill gain on fire magic.

You haven't had spellchanting... The buffs (if you can call them that) only last just over a minute... even at 50, and they are horrible melee range.

Meanwhile the only other self-buffs are totally useless and last about as long.


The only thing useful you get later on is AoE heal (at 75 SC). However the grind after 25 SC is fucking retarded... and reagents are painful.

[NurfedRekuul]

Game Design 102: Making something hard adds value to the sense of accomplishment, and weeds out those who are merely interested in playing in easy mode.

If you think grinding magic is difficult you are wrong. You set up a macro, the macro runs, and... you're done!

It just takes time. Stop confusing "no ridiculous grind" with "easy mode". Easy mode should refer to aspects of a game that don't require skill.

[NurfedRekuul]

Stopped reading here, don't understand your logic. Bone is insanely easy to get, 2gp a piece or farm 150 an hour yourself.

Most likely you don't understand his logic because you are not very smart. Elemental schools do far more damage for the same mana cost and comparable reagent costs. How more simply can that concept be explained?

[Kaiwai]

Yeah mana is also easy to get, i'd so rather cast rend for the same mana as firebolt! i mean i dont care if it uses a regent that no other spell uses! i'll farm for that on the side!

Do you by chance think macros are hacks to? we can make a little island community for your types... far away from everyone else.

Rend also comes with a Piercing debuff, and I forgot to mention earlier that when mine ticks for 3.25, it's in the back...because that's usually when I cast it. Something else owns in the back too, that I think might do piercing damage, I can't quite think of what it is though...hmm..


To answer the other question, no, I macro every night. Only fun way to raise magic imo.

[Ausei]

Piercing counts as arrows also.... just thought you guys should know that. It's a good spell for situations

[inademv]

If you think grinding magic is difficult you are wrong. You set up a macro, the macro runs, and... you're done!

It just takes time. Stop confusing "no ridiculous grind" with "easy mode". Easy mode should refer to aspects of a game that don't require skill.

How about you propose a system that would fit into this game structure, that you consider difficult, and that would prevent every single player from getting it.

[inademv]

Piercing counts as arrows also.... just thought you guys should know that. It's a good spell for situations

Like most spells in the game.

Don't know why everyone is so focused on that damage a spell does instead of it's possible applications.

[Melamoto]

To answer the other question, no, I macro every night. Only fun way to raise magic imo.Not saying I disagree with macroing, but seriously, come on.

[NurfedRekuul]

How about you propose a system that would fit into this game structure, that you consider difficult, and that would prevent every single player from getting it.

Already exists with the opposing schools. You can't have all magics. And who cares if every player has magic? Its the people who use it the most effectively that will succeed. Let as many people who want it, get it - and just balance it with the other skills.