Magic & PvP

[OvanOf Twilight]

Discuss.

I find Magic useless in PvP for LM and GM, but once you get Elemental schools it is quite useful. Also groups with the use of Spellchanting have seen significant aid from Spellchanting, it seems once you break by GM you have PvP viable magic. Thoughts?

[Rylemos]

I find Magic useless in PvP for LM and GM

Mana to Stamina:)

[sindas]

Mana Missile seems useful just because it costs nothing and it's a good range attack instead of carrying arrows..but yeah, seems there isn't much good stuff until elemental magic. Has anyone tried out the shield spells in LM to see if they are of any use?

And i heard spell chanting sucked...is it good now?

[Viluin]

Mana missile is useful because it's the only ranged attack you have when you're naked. The newbie bow needs arrows.

[sindas]

The newbie bow needs arrows.

that would be nice, it would make getting a bow as your starter weapon worth it. it's pointless right now...unless you have arrows in the bank, you have to kill crap that drop arrows anyway, and they always drop bows

[keeperofstars]

that would be nice, it would make getting a bow as your starter weapon worth it. it's pointless right now...unless you have arrows in the bank, you have to kill crap that drop arrows anyway, and they always drop bows

1 wood 1 ore = 20 arrows, a bower can amass thousands of arrows quickly. Well use to new global nodes kinda hurting that. lol

Anyways, the shield spells in LM do work to some extent I raised them up in beta, and you can shave about 5 damage off per mm once you break 50 skill with the spells, but overall not really worth it, mainly it just raises all your resists up.

Still though for a melee needing to balance out his piss poor resists from armor the spell has merrit.

Greater magic gets some half decent to nice spells around 75 skill, but by then most people just drop it for an elemental.

spellchanting is a huge help to groups, the stat buffs are very nice, and start to really add up, when you start buffing your whole group for +10 to a stat.
Also being able to reach group heal later on is nice for removing down time.

Overall yes once you break into an elemental you can pvp with it, and do pretty decent. Even at higher end GM you become decent, but as stated most people skip that part.

[Neversoul]

1 wood 1 ore = 20 arrows, a bower can amass thousands of arrows quickly. Well use to new global nodes kinda hurting that. lol

Anyways, the shield spells in LM do work to some extent I raised them up in beta, and you can shave about 5 damage off per mm once you break 50 skill with the spells, but overall not really worth it, mainly it just raises all your resists up.

Still though for a melee needing to balance out his piss poor resists from armor the spell has merrit.

Greater magic gets some half decent to nice spells around 75 skill, but by then most people just drop it for an elemental.

spellchanting is a huge help to groups, the stat buffs are very nice, and start to really add up, when you start buffing your whole group for +10 to a stat.
Also being able to reach group heal later on is nice for removing down time.

Overall yes once you break into an elemental you can pvp with it, and do pretty decent. Even at higher end GM you become decent, but as stated most people skip that part.

Everyone knows that attributes are broken. Lie less please.

[ke1th]

5 timber, 5 iron ore = 40 arrows (unless you fail creating wood, iron ingots and then finally arrows) AM I RIGHT?

[Spineless_DoO]

In more then 90% of pvp fights the only 2 spells you are ever going to use are heal and mana to stam. Even in most large scale 15 vs 15 ect you try to use magic means you hang back and watch a bunch of guys run around in circles like the clowns at the cirus who all just got out of the little car.

[Mennovh]

In more then 90% of pvp fights the only 2 spells you are ever going to use are heal and mana to stam. Even in most large scale 15 vs 15 ect you try to use magic means you hang back and watch a bunch of guys run around in circles like the clowns at the cirus who all just got out of the little car.

eh i use my fire magic quite alot. Cant count how many people i have killed with it now.

[Sabbathius]

Please, don't even try to bring up archery. At 25 skill, with newbie bow, it does 20-23 damage to a naked person, shot in the back. Mana Missile does 9-12 damage, also to a naked person, in the back. And arrows are a heck of a lot easier to farm or craft than it is to farm things like Nacre, Ash, Resin, etc. Not to mention a bow will always use ONE arrow, but in Witchcraft (50LM, 25GM), the basic skill level 1.0 nuke already uses 2xbone and 1x nacre, or 3 reagents per shot, not to mention 24 mana points, which is, unless I'm mistaken, about 4x more than it costs to fire a shot in stamina. Yes, I realize bows are affected by armor, but they have too many things going for them anyway, you can also fire in the water, magic cannot, even if it's a heal self spell.

Magic, up to 50 GM, has been pretty useless. Rend at skill level 50, with rank 30 staff, does 2.4 health + 0.9 stam damage per tick for 8 ticks. That's less than beginner bow with 25 skill.

Elemental magic is slightly better, basic Water nuke does about 30 damage at skill level 1.0, has short cast time, and short (none at all?) cooldown. It does, however, require 2x reagents, and still costs 24 mana, while I have about 175 mana right now, with 27 Intelligence, so I can fire a MAXIMUM of 7 of those nukes before being completely OOM, so ASSUMING I hit 100% of the time with those, it'll take me a FULL mana bar to kill ONE guy, ASSUMING he's not about 210 health. If he is, I'm shit out of luck.

So, right now, for the amount of grinding it takes to reach Elemental, I'd say magic is not worth the time. Go as far as Mana to Stamina, and stop, and wait for Aventurine to overhaul the magic schools.

EDIT: By my count, getting to 50 GM, it cost approximately 4,000 reagents to cast. Think 4,000 arrows. And I have NOT done Witchcraft yet, I have NOT done Elemental yet, and I have NOT done Necromancy yet. Those grinds are still ahead.

[fr0g]

Mana to Stamina:)

I can't believe the first reply beat me to that. That's exactly what I was going to type.

edit: launch

[KTV]

In more then 90% of pvp fights the only 2 spells you are ever going to use are heal and mana to stam. Even in most large scale 15 vs 15 ect you try to use magic means you hang back and watch a bunch of guys run around in circles like the clowns at the cirus who all just got out of the little car.
thx for the laugh =)

[Zarina]

I posted this in another thread, but they could make a start balancing magic a bit more by altering the way reagents are used. Instead of them being used the same way as arrows (i.e. you cast a spell, the reagent(s) required get(s) eaten), I think reagents should have durability akin to equipment. Essentially, each time you cast a spell that requires reagents, the cost would be in durability. For example:

You cast Needles (basic Witchcraft nuke) at a cost of 2 bone and 1 nacre. Instead of it automatically eating 2 bone and 1 nacre, one bone from your inventory takes a 2 durability hit, and one nacre from your inventory takes a 1 durability hit. In order to keep things fairly balanced reagents would have a low durability score... say 5 or so.

AV would probably have to alter the way reagents stack, so when you stack reagents instead of getting a number for how many are in the stack, you'd get a score for the durability of it. Paring off reagents to sell etc. would still be possible, you'd just be splitting down by durability.

[qijo]

5 timber, 5 iron ore = 40 arrows (unless you fail creating wood, iron ingots and then finally arrows) AM I RIGHT?

no 20 arrows. 1 ingot 1 wood= 20 arrows. 1 ingot= 5 ore 1 wood= 5 timber.

[McDoogs]

no 20 arrows. 1 ingot 1 wood= 20 arrows. 1 ingot= 5 ore 1 wood= 5 timber.

wrong

[Damokles]

I posted this in another thread, but they could make a start balancing magic a bit more by altering the way reagents are used. Instead of them being used the same way as arrows (i.e. you cast a spell, the reagent(s) required get(s) eaten), I think reagents should have durability akin to equipment. Essentially, each time you cast a spell that requires reagents, the cost would be in durability. For example:

You cast Needles (basic Witchcraft nuke) at a cost of 2 bone and 1 nacre. Instead of it automatically eating 2 bone and 1 nacre, one bone from your inventory takes a 2 durability hit, and one nacre from your inventory takes a 1 durability hit. In order to keep things fairly balanced reagents would have a low durability score... say 5 or so.

AV would probably have to alter the way reagents stack, so when you stack reagents instead of getting a number for how many are in the stack, you'd get a score for the durability of it. Paring off reagents to sell etc. would still be possible, you'd just be splitting down by durability.

It would be way easier just to change the probabilities of using reagents. There is a skill already that gives a chance to not use all reagents for 1 cast. Only thing that has to be done is to change those values, thus this skill has more influence on the reagents and occasionally you dont even burn 1 reagent. It just needs to be adjusted that in general you can cast 3, 4 or 5 spells instead of just 1 with the same reagents as now.

[Damokles]

wrong

So just for the wrong guy:
5 Ore = 2 Ingots
5 Timber = 2 Wood

[inademv]

Discuss.

I find Magic useless in PvP for LM and GM, but once you get Elemental schools it is quite useful. Also groups with the use of Spellchanting have seen significant aid from Spellchanting, it seems once you break by GM you have PvP viable magic. Thoughts?

Larger fights. 2-3 dedicated healers behind the front lines, people who are hurt fall back and get healed, recover some stam then rejoin the fight.

[OvanOf Twilight]

Larger fights. 2-3 dedicated healers behind the front lines, people who are hurt fall back and get healed, recover some stam then rejoin the fight.

Yeah,we have two people in Spellchanting in our clan and tested this out. We got some nice bonuses from the hymns and healings that we didn't need to rest as much and did more dps and whatnot. Quite nice.

[speCta]

Please, don't even try to bring up archery. At 25 skill, with newbie bow, it does 20-23 damage to a naked person, shot in the back. Mana Missile does 9-12 damage, also to a naked person, in the back. And arrows are a heck of a lot easier to farm or craft than it is to farm things like Nacre, Ash, Resin, etc. Not to mention a bow will always use ONE arrow, but in Witchcraft (50LM, 25GM), the basic skill level 1.0 nuke already uses 2xbone and 1x nacre, or 3 reagents per shot, not to mention 24 mana points, which is, unless I'm mistaken, about 4x more than it costs to fire a shot in stamina. Yes, I realize bows are affected by armor, but they have too many things going for them anyway, you can also fire in the water, magic cannot, even if it's a heal self spell.

Magic, up to 50 GM, has been pretty useless. Rend at skill level 50, with rank 30 staff, does 2.4 health + 0.9 stam damage per tick for 8 ticks. That's less than beginner bow with 25 skill.

Elemental magic is slightly better, basic Water nuke does about 30 damage at skill level 1.0, has short cast time, and short (none at all?) cooldown. It does, however, require 2x reagents, and still costs 24 mana, while I have about 175 mana right now, with 27 Intelligence, so I can fire a MAXIMUM of 7 of those nukes before being completely OOM, so ASSUMING I hit 100% of the time with those, it'll take me a FULL mana bar to kill ONE guy, ASSUMING he's not about 210 health. If he is, I'm shit out of luck.

So, right now, for the amount of grinding it takes to reach Elemental, I'd say magic is not worth the time. Go as far as Mana to Stamina, and stop, and wait for Aventurine to overhaul the magic schools.

EDIT: By my count, getting to 50 GM, it cost approximately 4,000 reagents to cast. Think 4,000 arrows. And I have NOT done Witchcraft yet, I have NOT done Elemental yet, and I have NOT done Necromancy yet. Those grinds are still ahead.

You're not supposed to kill people entirely with magic. Magic is for tossing at groups of enemies while advancing, or groups of enemies while they're retreating.

Melee or archery is how you kill people.

[MrShine]

It's also important to remember that archery drains way more stamina than casting does. You can use up your entire mana bar and expend relatively little amounts of stamina. Not so with archery.

I do agree that archery does more base damage than magic, but that seems to change when people invest in elemental spells.

[King Kyrite]

launch my be useful escaping a mob eh?

[Piranha]

Discuss.

I find Magic useless in PvP for LM and GM, but once you get Elemental schools it is quite useful. Also groups with the use of Spellchanting have seen significant aid from Spellchanting, it seems once you break by GM you have PvP viable magic. Thoughts?

not really, swinging a melee weapon is still the most effective way, maybe letting ur mount bite is more effective