Weapon Breakdown - Pros and Cons

[corpus]

Keep in mind, this is going only partially off of what I have experianced, most of it is just what 'they' say.

1h sword/axe/mace
As far as I can tell, all three are basicly the same reach, damage and speed. The only difference seems Aesthetic.
Pros: Used with a shield, which can block a signifigant amount of damage, excellent pvp tool in the right hands

Cons: no starter shield. Shorter range than 2h (duh) You have to use more stamina to dish out the same damage as a 2 hander (as I understand it, not positive)

2h Sword:
Fastest of the 2 handers, decent reach, decent damage

Cons: compared to sword and board, less mitigation from well timed parrys. Less reach and lower burst than pole arms (Not confirmed by me, just something ive read)

2h axe/mace:
Slightly slower, and slightly more damage than sword. about the same reach from what ive heard, parry is the same, etc

Polearms:
FOTM, supposedly greatest reach, greatest damage, slowest attack, considered ideal nub weapons by some


Daggers:
Excessively short reach, fast attacks with low damage. I have noticed that your actual attacks are faster than your swing speed animations, iirc if you turn on hit sounds you will notice the difference. ive tried to use these things in pve and failed, may be better for PvE


Would love to hear from someone who has tested the various weapon types more extensively. Did not add sithra cause ive never even seen the damn things.

Also, wewt forumfall update. not patch notes though.

[rainfinale]

1h sword/axe/mace
As far as I can tell, all three are basicly the same reach, damage and speed. The only difference seems Aesthetic.

Swords: Longest reach, fastest speed.
Axes: Shortest reach, slower speed. Higher damage.
Maces: Reach is between Swords and Axes. Does Bludgeoning damage as opposed to Swords and Axes which do slashing damage. The metal armors (chain, banded, ect.) are weakest to Bludgeoning where padded armor has higher Bludgeoning resistance.


Daggers:
Excessively short reach, fast attacks with low damage. I have noticed that your actual attacks are faster than your swing speed animations, iirc if you turn on hit sounds you will notice the difference. ive tried to use these things in pve and failed, may be better for PvE

Daggers deal out good damage if your target is standing still (mobs) but in pvp, they're hard to hit with especially if you don't have a great connection. Nice advantage is that daggers have the shortest cooldown abilities giving you a 4 second cooldown knockback ability for example. Again though, its harder to hit someone with it versus other weapons.

[corpus]

Swords: Longest reach, fastest speed.
Axes: Shortest reach, slower speed. Higher damage.
Maces: Reach is between Swords and Axes. Does Bludgeoning damage as opposed to Swords and Axes which do slashing damage. The metal armors (chain, banded, ect.) are weakest to Bludgeoning where padded armor has higher Bludgeoning resistance.
Is this true for the two handers as well?



Daggers deal out good damage if your target is standing still (mobs) but in pvp, they're hard to hit with especially if you don't have a great connection. Nice advantage is that daggers have the shortest cooldown abilities giving you a 4 second cooldown knockback ability for example. Again though, its harder to hit someone with it versus other weapons.
This sounds like a good weapon if you wanted to focus on ranged combat then, a knock back every 4 seconds could be quite handy for that playstyle

[rainfinale]

Is this true for the two handers as well?

The same trend of sword = better speed and range and axe = better damage follows, yes. However, there's no 2-handed Bludgeoning weapon. Instead you get polearms. Actually, 2-handed Axe has the same reach as a 1-handed sword.



This sounds like a good weapon if you wanted to focus on ranged combat then, a knock back every 4 seconds could be quite handy for that playstyle

Daggers, yeah. Although as I said, the reach is terrible and since knockback knives attacks straight out in front of you, its hard to land hits since people don't stand there in pvp; they run circles around you and such. If there's any kind of lag its tough. I could usually only land 1 knockback in every 3 or 4 attempts in normal pvp against someone with a greatsword or polearms.

[psykeman420]

The same trend of sword = better speed and range and axe = better damage follows, yes. However, there's no 2-handed Bludgeoning weapon. Instead you get polearms. Actually, 2-handed Axe has the same reach as a 1-handed sword.




Greatclubs = 2h bludgeoning

[rainfinale]

Greatclubs = 2h bludgeoning

Thanks, I did miss that one.

[Jackson]

there are a LOT of errors in this thread.

...a LOT.

[corpus]

there are a LOT of errors in this thread.

...a LOT.
Then correct them? This is an open thread that is at least trying to clear up the differences between the weapon types, if your going to say everything is riddled with errors then point them out. Otherwise you come off as a pompous idiot seeking attention.

[Rodhull]

Melee wise all you need to bother with is...

Polearms OR 2Handed swords for all pvp
1HSword and Shield on rare occasions, for pve tanking and when mounted being 1H proficient is vital...

THE END

[ePeen]

Melee wise all you need to bother with is...

Polearms OR 2Handed swords for all pvp
1HSword and Shield on rare occasions, for pve tanking and when mounted being 1H proficient is vital...

THE END

Actually if done right, shield users rape.

[corpus]

Actually if done right, shield users rape.
how do good shield users fight?

[Abremalist]

I have to say that when it comes to PvE and group-style combat, I'd say that one-hander + shield is a great choice for the skilled player.

Even learning how to use block with a Polearm against mobs was a relevation.

[subdwarf]

actually, seeing the range differences also for the one-handers, in the end nobody will use axe or mace as a one-hander.
having the bigger range on mount (in particular) >> all.
can anyone confirm the range differences of the one-handers or do I have to wait for after work and *gasp* test it out on my own?

[Euseka]

2h swords is prob > polearms atm cause it's quicker to skill up to 75

[Musketeer]

Good info.

There's actually useful information on Forumfall.

Something must be wrong.

:cool:

[Chronomancer]

actually, seeing the range differences also for the one-handers, in the end nobody will use axe or mace as a one-hander.
having the bigger range on mount (in particular) >> all.
can anyone confirm the range differences of the one-handers or do I have to wait for after work and *gasp* test it out on my own?

Confirmed.

My friend and me did extensive reach testing.
I grabbed different weapons of each type (I'm weaponsmith, so that was no prob)
We also tried to test weapon Arcs, but that's not that easy so I don't want to make any wrong statements.

Range breakdown though is as follows from highest range to lowest:
Polearm
2Hd Sword - slightly less range than polearm
2Hd Axe/Mace - slightly less range than 2Hd sword

1Hd Sword - less range than 2hd Axe/Maxe
1Hd Axe/Mace - slightly less range than 1hd Sword

Daggers - What range? You have to pretty much hump your target to score hits.

There is no noticeable difference between the range of the corresponding axes/maces. When you still hit at max range with axe, you also hit with mace. A tiny nudge of the "move backward key" later, you are out of range with both.

Small Edit:
It makes a difference how you aim. If you aim straight forward, you have higher range as for example aiming at an angle slightly down. This is confirmed.

The weapon ranges seem to follow a radius around a fixed point close to the head of the char. I lack Dwarven/Alfar friends to test if that leads to a significant advantage of small races. The dwarf in theory can aim straight forard at an orc/mahirim while they need to aim slightly down, thus having lower range on the same weapon.
This is unconfirmed as of now!

[Wufiavelli]

Maces 2h and 1h do blunt damage.
Polearms and daggers do piercing.
Swords 1h 2h and axes do slashing


Daggers have fast block and special attacks but eat up stamina due to range and counters needed to be done to be viable in pvp.

[rainfinale]

actually, seeing the range differences also for the one-handers, in the end nobody will use axe or mace as a one-hander.
having the bigger range on mount (in particular) >> all.
can anyone confirm the range differences of the one-handers or do I have to wait for after work and *gasp* test it out on my own?

It was the first reply to the thread but I'll state it again.

1-H Range: Sword > Mace > Axe

[takenyouth]

sticky?

[Chronomancer]

It was the first reply to the thread but I'll state it again.

1-H Range: Sword > Mace > Axe

Which is wrong.

Sword > Axe/Mace

There is no range difference in Axe/Mace, at least none noticable. Maybe if you manage to do movement inputs that last for fractions of miliseconds then you might or might not get a difference in range. But if you call a range advantage of maybe two or three pixels an advantage, yeah...
If you hit at max range with an axe, you also hit with a mace. Tap your movement key and both are out of range.

[rainfinale]

Which is wrong.

Sword > Axe/Mace

There is no range difference in Axe/Mace, at least none noticable. Maybe if you manage to do movement inputs that last for fractions of miliseconds then you might or might not get a difference in range. But if you call a range advantage of maybe two or three pixels an advantage, yeah...
If you hit at max range with an axe, you also hit with a mace. Tap your movement key and both are out of range.

No, that's correct. My clanmate found the max range with a club to hit me, then immediately switched to axe and couldn't hit me. He had tap forward 2-3 times to take a fraction step forward to hit me with an Axe

Actual range is: Sword > Mace > Axe

Noticeable range is relative to each person.

[salaam]

no bow in this breakdown? :sadface

[zhandao]

No, that's correct. My clanmate found the max range with a club to hit me, then immediately switched to axe and couldn't hit me. He had tap forward 2-3 times to take a fraction step forward to hit me with an Axe

Actual range is: Sword > Mace > Axe

Noticeable range is relative to each person.

Oh nice, concrete evidence for weapon ranges, finally.

Can you do the same for the rest of the weapons (2Hers I suppose)?

no bow in this breakdown? :sadfaceBows have the longest range.

[rainfinale]

Can you do the same for the rest of the weapons (2Hers I suppose)?


sure.

[yaaki]

No, that's correct. My clanmate found the max range with a club to hit me, then immediately switched to axe and couldn't hit me. He had tap forward 2-3 times to take a fraction step forward to hit me with an Axe

Actual range is: Sword > Mace > Axe

Noticeable range is relative to each person.

Weapons have an small knockback. So its possible in the tests.

You hit with mace -> small knockback -> switch axe -> no hit

[subdwarf]

hey Yaaki, GDE pal, wassup (Yarrgoon speaking)

[Thidias]

I'd very much like to see a little bit more variation between the different weapon types and hopefully more unique abilities per each different weapon. Also I think that the daggers range should be made a tad bit longer and the damage be upped a smidge, so that they are more viable in PvP. Maybe add a 'backstab' to daggers that does a bunch more damage (comparable to that of a 2h for example) when you get them in the back. I think that the Stealth and Subtley aspects of DF need to be worked on, it would be a very intruiging play style.

[rainfinale]

Weapons have an small knockback. So its possible in the tests.

You hit with mace -> small knockback -> switch axe -> no hit

There is a knockback for polearms; there is no knockback (not even slightly) for swords, clubs, or axes.

Even assuming there was, our test went:

mace -> hit
axe -> no hit
mace -> again hit

[Jackson]

Then correct them? This is an open thread that is at least trying to clear up the differences between the weapon types, if your going to say everything is riddled with errors then point them out. Otherwise you come off as a pompous idiot seeking attention.

why would I give you kids hints.

figure it out yourself.

[zhandao]

I'd very much like to see a little bit more variation between the different weapon types and hopefully more unique abilities per each different weapon. Also I think that the daggers range should be made a tad bit longer and the damage be upped a smidge, so that they are more viable in PvP. Maybe add a 'backstab' to daggers that does a bunch more damage (comparable to that of a 2h for example) when you get them in the back. I think that the Stealth and Subtley aspects of DF need to be worked on, it would be a very intruiging play style.
There is 2x damage to the back with any weapon, right?

And why would stabbing someone in the back with daggers hurt more than cutting someone in half in the back with a 2H sword?

[Crindle]

So people would actually use the daggers. Weren't you reading the post before?

It could make sense as a dagger would be piercing and not slashing damage, so more chance for vital organ hit, rather then flesh or limb decap. This is made up of course from my thoughts for the laughs of it.

Basically, it is to get people to use the dagger is why, why have a weapon no one uses for pvp?

[zhandao]

So people would actually use the daggers. Weren't you reading the post before?

It could make sense as a dagger would be piercing and not slashing damage, so more chance for vital organ hit, rather then flesh or limb decap. This is made up of course from my thoughts for the laughs of it.

Basically, it is to get people to use the dagger is why, why have a weapon no one uses for pvp?Well, to that I say AV needs to consider the range of weapons when balancing weapon damage. The only balancing right now is simply weapon speed vs weapon damage, so the range advantage of polearms has no negative counterbalance.

After that, AV may even want to consider that slower/high-damage-per-hit weapons are inherently better than faster weapons simply because of burst damage and jousting. This of course is a bit more controversial than the idea in the first paragraph.

[Wufiavelli]

New factor to add. Blocking damage, Daggers only block 25% of damage as opposed to 50 for greatsword. Have not tested others but think they are 50 also.

[StManTiS]

most of the edits are posted by informed members..please edit them into the OP

[gmornin]

In regards to daggers I did some testing and they have a strange range differance within their arc.

What I mean is dont come at your target straight the arc is shorter at that point... I come in and aim/swing from my side I hit from further away...It also looks weird to opponents..still too close for a US pinger like me I think but this could help people trying it out.

[Wufiavelli]

Yeh i used them in a siege today as a kind of cause chaos weapon. seemed to work well.

[aetius2]

In regards to daggers I did some testing and they have a strange range differance within their arc.

What I mean is dont come at your target straight the arc is shorter at that point... I come in and aim/swing from my side I hit from further away...It also looks weird to opponents..still too close for a US pinger like me I think but this could help people trying it out.

As a dagger user I have also experienced this. It could be a lag effect, but using the basic attack (not the alternative attack) I've hit mobs that were well off to my side. It may be that the dagger has a short range but a broad arc.

[MonopolistJasek]

As a dagger user I have also experienced this. It could be a lag effect, but using the basic attack (not the alternative attack) I've hit mobs that were well off to my side. It may be that the dagger has a short range but a broad arc.

it does have some sweet spots that have some interesting utility while running away from opponents. its also good for squeezing in a PA and a WW after a parry. make them parry a nothing swing and unload some abilities on them.
They are still slightly lackluster at the moment.

[Wufiavelli]

Nice am gonna work on using the side attack. but since we lack control over which side we swing from it kind of cuts our damage in half.

[Atnas]

Nice am gonna work on using the side attack. but since we lack control over which side we swing from it kind of cuts our damage in half.

It doesn't make any difference, that animation is merely fluff.

[Wufiavelli]

It doesn't make any difference, that animation is merely fluff.

so its a wide arc on both sides?

[Wufiavelli]

After testing i can say the wide arch theory is false. daggers just kind of suck range wise

[FrankenBeast]

Daggers are superior if someone was to really sneak up and stab a person. A smaller blade will make someone less more stealthy because a glare off of a blade is obvious not to mention that a lighter blade would make one's movements more natural and therefore stealthy. A smaller blade is easier to sneak between plates of mail. A smaller blade is lighter, so it may be moved faster and has a smaller impact area which increases it's penetration especially if one has the time to aim the stab. On top of everything else, major organs and arteries may be easily reached with a dagger of 6 inches easily, many with 3 inch blades.

To Jackson
Trolling is a sad and pathetic past time. Please move on.

[Myrik_Justiciar]

I want to add, in regards to weapon range argument...

You can't say axe>mace, etc.... it varies per individual weapon. I have various 2h swords of different ranks and sizes for example, and depending on the weapon, they have different range. A deepblade has range over the aflar 2h sword by far, but doesnt hit as hard. This holds true with all the other weapons I've tested. There are variations in range for each individual type. So, depending on who I am fighting, I may take the lesser rank sword because it has a better reach.

[Myrik_Justiciar]

I want to add, in regards to weapon range argument...

You can't say axe>mace, etc.... it varies per individual weapon. I have various 2h swords of different ranks and sizes for example, and depending on the weapon, they have different range. A deepblade has range over the aflar 2h sword by far, but doesnt hit as hard. This holds true with all the other weapons I've tested. There are variations in range for each individual type. So, depending on who I am fighting, I may take the lesser rank sword because it has a better reach.


Ok... after some further testing...it looks like I was wrong, sorry.