Siege PVP Video

[Kzuri]

Was major fun :D Thanks for the fight, Apollo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNJs79Ik6eY&fmt=22

[XunknownX]

YOU FOUGHT APOLLO :O? there epicc, what guild are you in?

[standontoilets]

How do you avoid killing your own team-mates when it is so chaotic like that?

[War Veteran]

Was major fun :D Thanks for the fight, Apollo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNJs79Ik6eY&fmt=22
That was very interesting.

I loved it how you guys had to tell each other not to attack each other. You guys were well organized.

And thank you for no tasteless music in your video. I could now HEAR the sounds in game.

[Mystic2112]

.That look like mass chaos to me.. random swinging and shooting at random targets......

Lineage 2 had larger scale pvp sieges than this which were much more orginized

[I Eat Children]

.That look like mass chaos to me.. random swinging and shooting at random targets......

Lineage 2 had larger scale pvp sieges than this which were much more orginized

That was just one side of the video, theres a few better links in CD that show much better organised fighting during this battle.

[Kebab-Kastike]

Keep in mind that there's a minimap showing all your Clan members. OP is part of BKB, who own that city. That's the reason why you see so many green dots in the minimap.

I joined just after that attack, saw OPs comment on adding the video on youtube and posting link later. Kinda sad that I missed all the action. Killed naked ganker though who had entered the city. :p

[Rodhull]

.That look like mass chaos to me.. random swinging and shooting at random targets......

Lineage 2 had larger scale pvp sieges than this which were much more orginized

Amazing isnt it how people see different things...
Im with you personally.

All i see there is exactly what i predicted most sieges would be from my beta experience.

Two sides mostly armed with polearms/2handed swords and 1hsword and shields, spamming mana missile ad nauseum, occasionally firing bow and aimlessly running around in circles slashing wildly at each other until one side wins...

Looed about as entertaining as a dose of the plague.

[Lyckan]

"Siege PVP Video" - Love this. Haha.

[Cuelda]

.That look like mass chaos to me.. random swinging and shooting at random targets......

Lineage 2 had larger scale pvp sieges than this which were much more orginized

First of all, I played L2 for years, just for the politics and the mass pvp, although I hated the mob grind. It is the second best MMO I've played (after Darkfall :D).

With that said, I will take Darkfall's chaotic combat over L2 mass combat any day of the week. From what I remember, in L2 when 2 big armies clashed the result was two lines of combatants that consisted of ranged attackers. If you were a ranged attacker you picked the closest opponent of the enemy line and started spamming arrows/spells, until they pulled back and pulled you away from your line, causing you to become a target and had to pull back yourself to avoid getting killed. Rinse and repeat. If you were a melee attacker you might just as well sit around and enjoy the show, until your side starts winning giving you the liberty to attack as well.
Sure L2 had more skills, and you could use them in some usefull combinations.

But Darkfall has some better ones, they are called "aim your mouse", WASD, crouch, parry, sprint and jump.

[Kzuri]

The reason it's so chaotic is because it's almost impossible to see who is the enemy. We really need coloured tabards, cloaks or uniforms which will allow us to quickly see which side each player is on without having to aim at everyone to check their clan name. But yeh, it was mayhem pretty much.

And I'm sure the combat will gain more depth once each side starts using siege engines and stronger magic.

Despite the problems, it was fun :)

[Snotling]

I could now HEAR the sounds in game.

I think Tasteless music would have been better.

[teammatto]

.That look like mass chaos to me.. random swinging and shooting at random targets......

Lineage 2 had larger scale pvp sieges than this which were much more orginized

its suppose to be mass chaos its a war..
very common tactic to shoot "randomly" into the enemy when there is a herd of em

[Rodhull]

its suppose to be mass chaos its a war..
very common tactic to shoot "randomly" into the enemy when there is a herd of em

Yep you are right of course, all medieval and historical melee battles were fought by people sprinting around swinging their weapons and hoping they didnt hit their mates while chugging pots and eating food... silly me

[Mystic2112]

The reason it's so chaotic is because it's almost impossible to see who is the enemy. We really need coloured tabards, cloaks or uniforms which will allow us to quickly see which side each player is on without having to aim at everyone to check their clan name. But yeh, it was mayhem pretty much.

And I'm sure the combat will gain more depth once each side starts using siege engines and stronger magic.

Despite the problems, it was fun :)

It would be nice to be able to distinguish enemies.... I remember the Devs talking about being able to craft your clan crest and colors onto shields and armor......

Yet one more thing they promised but didn’t deliver on.

[Mystic2112]

its suppose to be mass chaos its a war..
very common tactic to shoot "randomly" into the enemy when there is a herd of em

please :rolleyes:

I guess I missed the part where they taught shooting "randomly" in basic.

[drewdown]

Yep you are right of course, all medieval and historical melee battles were fought by people sprinting around swinging their weapons and hoping they didnt hit their mates while chugging pots and eating food... silly me

I dunno, I think it looked kinda exciting personally. I've seen quite a few videos, and they all looked boring. This one was pretty cool though. An enemy attacked a fortified wall, got repelled, and then routed. It was chaotic, but most medieval battles probably were.

I guess it just depends on the way you look at it. Who's to say medieval battles weren't people swinging their weapons hoping they didn't hit their mates?

Chugging pots, eating food, those are just typical game things. If you want it to be more realistic, go join SCA or whatever they're called. I mean if you were that pissed about stuff like that, you shoulda left when you realized the game had magic...

I really thought this one showed off some of the nicer graphics, and I bet if you were inside the castle walls you would have felt some tension before the enemy was knocked back.

Routing an enemy will be chaotic, because when they retreat, they are in a panic, their lines are broken.

[drewdown]

please :rolleyes:

I guess I missed the part where they taught shooting "randomly" in basic.

You probably missed the part where they taught you swordplay and horseback riding too.

If you want perfect tactics get some military minds on your guild, that's not the game's fault. Besides, I thought they did well, they were organized. If you're criticizing their level of organization then you'll never be happy in any multiplayer game, because it doesn't get a whole lot better than that, communication-wise.

[MasterFlash]

Well, I enjoyed the video. Thx for posting :)

[Kzuri]

No probs :D

[kwilson0101]

apollo and winderblades tried again yesterday ... and failed ... i was late to that 1 tho ... we had 5 dog company south doing some pvp when we ran into 5 clan guys ... thought we were gonna have it out til we realized it was bkb ... dmt, patriota .... cant remember ne more ppl

[Tyriak]

.That look like mass chaos to me.. random swinging and shooting at random targets......

Lineage 2 had larger scale pvp sieges than this which were much more orginized

Because it's just clan tag recognition and pressing F1 most of the time.

[Spineless_DoO]

How do you avoid killing your own team-mates when it is so chaotic like that?

You pull out your bow and hang back. PVP in this game is nothing more then a kaotic mess of people running around in circles. The smart ones are the folks who dont all go running in. I just about summed up the entire system.

[Kzuri]

Because it's just clan tag recognition and pressing F1 most of the time.

What does F1 do?

[Rodhull]

I dunno, I think it looked kinda exciting personally. I've seen quite a few videos, and they all looked boring. This one was pretty cool though. An enemy attacked a fortified wall, got repelled, and then routed. It was chaotic, but most medieval battles probably were.

I guess it just depends on the way you look at it. Who's to say medieval battles weren't people swinging their weapons hoping they didn't hit their mates?

Chugging pots, eating food, those are just typical game things. If you want it to be more realistic, go join SCA or whatever they're called. I mean if you were that pissed about stuff like that, you shoulda left when you realized the game had magic...

I really thought this one showed off some of the nicer graphics, and I bet if you were inside the castle walls you would have felt some tension before the enemy was knocked back.

Routing an enemy will be chaotic, because when they retreat, they are in a panic, their lines are broken.

I dont want it to be realistic, youve done what alot of fanbois do...

You see if you read the thread as a whole and most importantly (if your going to quote me) read the posts i was replying to.
Whoever it was i quoted basically defended the chaotic non tactical fighting by saying that it was realistic.
It wasnt, medieval battles were fought in very ordered (quite stupidly so by modern standards) ways

It was immensely important to have battle formations and battle lines, if everyone just ran about in 2v3 and 1v2 and 4v2 etc etc little skirmishes it wouldnt be a battle or indeed a siege.
If someone uses historical reference to defend something and it doesnt bear close examination then ill point it out.

Now of course i dont want historical accuracy i have my medieval total war II mods for that but i also dont want random chaos, i dont want a siege to feel like say 30 seperate people fighting 30 seperate people who just happen to be in the same clans fighting for the same purpose, i want the game to have such well built mechanics that it rewards people who are organised and who employ at least some level of accepted tactical knowledge.

Currently all accepted tactical knowledge relating to melee fighting would utterly gimp you if you employed it in DF, the mechanics and how they are implemented almost force you to play the game in a chaotic random (albeit occasionally entertaining) way.

I and alot of other people following the game wanted a bit more from the sieges and clan v clan than a glorified BF2 game with swords, and thats how DF currently feels.

[Slaker]

It was a nice fight from what I can see from the video. Good job!

[Hydrolyzed]

What are the hitsounds? Is there a addon for that?

[Remix]

What are the hitsounds? Is there a addon for that?

ya its in the options when u get in GUI mode

[Mhorham]

I dont want it to be realistic, youve done what alot of fanbois do...

You see if you read the thread as a whole and most importantly (if your going to quote me) read the posts i was replying to.
Whoever it was i quoted basically defended the chaotic non tactical fighting by saying that it was realistic.
It wasnt, medieval battles were fought in very ordered (quite stupidly so by modern standards) ways

It was immensely important to have battle formations and battle lines, if everyone just ran about in 2v3 and 1v2 and 4v2 etc etc little skirmishes it wouldnt be a battle or indeed a siege.
If someone uses historical reference to defend something and it doesnt bear close examination then ill point it out.

Now of course i dont want historical accuracy i have my medieval total war II mods for that but i also dont want random chaos, i dont want a siege to feel like say 30 seperate people fighting 30 seperate people who just happen to be in the same clans fighting for the same purpose, i want the game to have such well built mechanics that it rewards people who are organised and who employ at least some level of accepted tactical knowledge.

Currently all accepted tactical knowledge relating to melee fighting would utterly gimp you if you employed it in DF, the mechanics and how they are implemented almost force you to play the game in a chaotic random (albeit occasionally entertaining) way.

I and alot of other people following the game wanted a bit more from the sieges and clan v clan than a glorified BF2 game with swords, and thats how DF currently feels.

You know what is so awesome about Darkfall? If you want it different you can make it different. It wont be handed to you with a simple "Command Formations" button though ;)

[Rodhull]

You know what is so awesome about Darkfall? If you want it different you can make it different. It wont be handed to you with a simple "Command Formations" button though ;)

Thats exactly the point einstein, if i wanted to use command formations in a clan v clan DF battle it would be suicide. The enemy would sprint kite around you firing AOE mana missiles and arrows ad infinitum and splash damage you all to hell and back.
The erratic overly frenetic CS way combat has been implemented has basiclly ensured that like many old style fps games you must always keep moving or basically your dead. Where as i feel a slightly more realistic approach were sustained movement hampered combat effectiveness would promote more considered and well thought out combat.

I appreciate not everyone thinks like this just giving my opinion.

[Cetra[EQ]]

Thats exactly the point einstein, if i wanted to use command formations in a clan v clan DF battle it would be suicide. The enemy would sprint kite around you firing AOE mana missiles and arrows ad infinitum and splash damage you all to hell and back.
The erratic overly frenetic CS way combat has been implemented has basiclly ensured that like many old style fps games you must always keep moving or basically your dead. Where as i feel a slightly more realistic approach were sustained movement hampered combat effectiveness would promote more considered and well thought out combat.

I appreciate not everyone thinks like this just giving my opinion.

If you want formations and shit, then feel free to create a guild and get them going. Formations and organisation will be rewarded, regardless of what you think. You'll have to adapt to the way the game is though, don't be too huddled up etc - just because your shoulders arent touching doesn't mean you're not in formation.

[Rodhull]

;3088036']If you want formations and shit, then feel free to create a guild and get them going. Formations and organisation will be rewarded, regardless of what you think. You'll have to adapt to the way the game is though, don't be too huddled up etc - just because your shoulders arent touching doesn't mean you're not in formation.

Nope youve completey missed the point, OR havent actually played DF...

Bottom line unless you are jousting 24/7 in combat you lose... That to me isnt fun or challenging, its dull.

[Aurorix]

.That look like mass chaos to me.. random swinging and shooting at random targets......

Lineage 2 had larger scale pvp sieges than this which were much more orginized

Lineage 2 also had auto targetting and you only had to worry about FF from AOE spells jackass.

[inademv]

Was major fun :D Thanks for the fight, Apollo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNJs79Ik6eY&fmt=22

People on foot without siege weapons/engines rushing a wall with people defending it? el yawn.

[Thealbinorhino]

Alright let's get this straight... Apollo wasn't sieging anyone, we had about 25 members without siege weapons we were going to fight BKB vs Apollo -just- BKB vs Apollo as they came in our city and broke the non-city attack policy [ BKB's idea ] So, we decided to take it too them we gathered our army stood outside their city and challanged them to combat their about 60-70 people vs our 25ish... So, what followed was BKB said Apollo was sieging them.. confrimation From BKB people themselves so.. Image/BKB/VAMP/Free corps/Crystal Order/Dog Company and Dogs of War I believe came at us with about 120 members, we killed their calvary charge killing about 20 mounts as you can see in dog companies live un-editied feed. We took up defensive positions in our hamlet and pushed them back after bout 30 minutes 15 of them were left in our city... We then pushed out of our hamlet and took back the ground, at this point the SA and friends had retreated... What this video shows is -after- they refused a fair fight outisde their city and everyone was charging out lines at once... and before BKB retreating back to their city... As you can hear in Dog Companies live feed on ventrilo "BKB is pulling back " once they got to our hamlet.


Thanks for the edited video, for the truth the live feed is up ;)

[I Eat Children]

I dont want it to be realistic, youve done what alot of fanbois do...

You see if you read the thread as a whole and most importantly (if your going to quote me) read the posts i was replying to.
Whoever it was i quoted basically defended the chaotic non tactical fighting by saying that it was realistic.
It wasnt, medieval battles were fought in very ordered (quite stupidly so by modern standards) ways

It was immensely important to have battle formations and battle lines, if everyone just ran about in 2v3 and 1v2 and 4v2 etc etc little skirmishes it wouldnt be a battle or indeed a siege.
If someone uses historical reference to defend something and it doesnt bear close examination then ill point it out.

Now of course i dont want historical accuracy i have my medieval total war II mods for that but i also dont want random chaos, i dont want a siege to feel like say 30 seperate people fighting 30 seperate people who just happen to be in the same clans fighting for the same purpose, i want the game to have such well built mechanics that it rewards people who are organised and who employ at least some level of accepted tactical knowledge.

Currently all accepted tactical knowledge relating to melee fighting would utterly gimp you if you employed it in DF, the mechanics and how they are implemented almost force you to play the game in a chaotic random (albeit occasionally entertaining) way.

I and alot of other people following the game wanted a bit more from the sieges and clan v clan than a glorified BF2 game with swords, and thats how DF currently feels.

Tell me something, in Total War, what happens when the enemy routes? Mass panic, and often disorganization, for both sides.

Tactics are a viable thing in this game, so are formations, they just have to be different then our medieval time, because of magic. Although, thats not to say all formations are useless from our medieval time period. In fact, I bet some Middle East horse archery could be done. Or Hungarian battlefield assassin tactics, which were basicaly skirmish tactics, attack and retreat and attack.

What you see while watching that video is a bunch of running and jumping, I see new formations being made without people even realising.

[ElJayco]

I haven't watched the video sorry but have been in a battle so feel I can add some thing to the conversation.

Sure, anyone who has been in a battle will know that from one point of view (whoever is doing the fraps) it does look very chaotic especially if that persons role is running around.

If you analyse the whole battle though then there is organisation, tactics, formations etc.

There was a video of a battle on our sity that I watched and it looked just like a totla dissorganised mess.

However the reality of the battle was far from that.

The video showed somebody running around, chasing random people and killing them, sometimes switching targets if they lost one.

The reality of the battle though was 2 groups in specific locations in the city, the first group charged the attackers and split them up, 1 group of attackers headed for the keep, the other engaged the first lot of defenders.

Then the 2nd group of defenders ambushed the 2nd group of attackers and split them up even more and within a few minutes they were on the run out of the city.

The defenders then chased the remaining attackers away picking off a few more.

Sounds more oganised to me but the video does not show that.

[McDoogs]

Amazing isnt it how people see different things...
Im with you personally.

All i see there is exactly what i predicted most sieges would be from my beta experience.

Two sides mostly armed with polearms/2handed swords and 1hsword and shields, spamming mana missile ad nauseum, occasionally firing bow and aimlessly running around in circles slashing wildly at each other until one side wins...

Looed about as entertaining as a dose of the plague.

and yet you are still trolling here

[Silvamp]

Nope youve completey missed the point, OR havent actually played DF...

Bottom line unless you are jousting 24/7 in combat you lose... That to me isnt fun or challenging, its dull.

Even tho you do have a point with the lack of ways combat can be played out, i however do feel you are over exaggerating... get your whole guild/clan to get plate with 1h/shield and you can hold your own in a formation if you _really_ want it. With decent skills/potions/food/spells a person should even be able to maintain it for some time.


My point beeing that even if the game arent supporting some ways of playing styles its still possible to play them out.. challenge yourself a little. Dont sit around complaining about things that cant be done by perfection cause thats how i wished it was... nothing is perfect.

[Lictor]

This video shows how much of an unskilled, unorganized and chaotic zerg Savage Alliance really is. You - in particular - are very horrible. Sorry. You cast MM blindly, wave your PA at the air, shoot arrows into your allies' backs, switch targets on a second-to-second basis without consequence letting your half-dead opponents run away... Totally unskilled PvP. This video is a shame.

[Kzuri]

This video shows how much of an unskilled, unorganized and chaotic zerg Savage Alliance really is. You - in particular - are very horrible. Sorry. You cast MM blindly, wave your PA at the air, shoot arrows into your allies' backs, switch targets on a second-to-second basis without consequence letting your half-dead opponents run away... Totally unskilled PvP. This video is a shame.

Alright, thanks for your opinion. Could you give me some tips to improve?

Thanks ^^

[Marrik]

It would be nice to be able to distinguish enemies.... I remember the Devs talking about being able to craft your clan crest and colors onto shields and armor......

Yet one more thing they promised but didn’t deliver on.


"The game is feature complete!"


"We are actually ready to release right now!"

[KoKane]

Nice video Kzuri, you teleport hacking biatch ;)

[Lictor]

Alright, thanks for your opinion. Could you give me some tips to improve?

Thanks ^^

No, because - and now it might come as a shock to you - I suck probably as much as you do atm. The only difference between us is, that I don't make videos about it so I don't score off myself... ...yet. ;) Anyway, I know this was video about a siege and not about your supposed 1337 PvP skill, so sorry for my gruffness...

[Kzuri]

Alright, np, 'cos I really have no idea how to fight in sieges. Everyone looks the same and its laggy as hell, kinda hard to know who to hit :p