Universal banks? Yes, No, or both?

[Shawk]

Here is a more fair poll.

[Teth]

Universal money with local items is a system that works brilliantly for EVE, and also more or less makes sense too. After all, various bank branches probably have money on hand, but having a copy of your Kinslaying Flametooth Blade kicking about is, well, pretty damn unlikely.

Just be sure to include an Assets screen of some sort that tracks where we've left what, thx.

[Terran.Priest]

I voted for Money & items local.

But now I think about it, should have voted for Money universal, items local.

Since I don't support the idea of magic recall, gates, and other crap like that for DF, it would only make sense to have access to your money pretty much anywhere.

It wouldn't make sense to go to the other side of the map just to crab a couple thousand in gold just to get a weapon or something at a vendor.

If they will allow magic recall, and/or other devices for rapid transit; in that case, I'd stick with my original vote.

[The Higgins]

I vote for universal money, local items, but with some kind of system attached to the banking system. For example, paying the mages guild to teleport items from bank to bank. Or a way to get some basic gear should you die and lose all your stuff far away from your item containing bank

[The-Nit]

I vote for universal money, local items.

By far the most "real" solution.
Templar knights did this during the crusades, and since DF is a medieval age game, this would make sense.

[Goune]

I sortof think there should be both, Guildhousing/private houseing allowing for local item storage, of greater capacity, then say the bank, which is universal in towns, but has a limited capacity. Money should be an item, so its dealt with the same way.

[lipe[cpc]]

Itens and money universal, but with very low bank weigth limit. To keep other stuff a deposit like system would be needed, like an wherehouse that charges for space or something like that; and this wherehouse would not be universal.

[Yuengling.OoB]

I vote for universal money, local items, but with some kind of system attached to the banking system. For example, paying the mages guild to teleport items from bank to bank. Or a way to get some basic gear should you die and lose all your stuff far away from your item containing bank

One of the neat aspects about this system of banking is should you die in a far off city, you will have money to buy new gear off the local merchants. Thereby supporting the local players!

[LionbI4]

I voted for Money and items local.
Since you can easily buy any gears in any city, your travel between countries will be too easy - take fast horse, minimum gears, and go-non-stop untill reach destination. No risk on death. Easy to migrate in any location. This can lead to massive migrations to locations, where there are better monsters/resources/pvp fun, and finally leads to lags.

[Nardurian]

Depending how dependent on gear your ability to fight will be (which I hope is as low as possible), there should be no need to transfer gear from city to city. Just have multiple sets of armor and gear in the cities you frequently visit. Or have a guild safe house in each city.

Oh voted Money and Items local. Would make the players consume and spend their money in one major city rather than spreading the wealth too easily between towns. You'd make your home town's economy stronger that way too.

[HoE-AmelsChosen]

Depending how dependent on gear your ability to fight will be (which I hope is as low as possible), there should be no need to transfer gear from city to city. Just have multiple sets of armor and gear in the cities you frequently visit. Or have a guild safe house in each city.
Gear wont be all that important but people will have the best of the best made and stored ready for important events such as an attack or defense of a city or maybe other situations where they feel they may require it (such as the kickass breastplate mentioned in the svarts lore made from a rare material that absorbs fire).

[Taurohta]

This game is full loot, so u lose all money and gear on u when u die, u will need some means to gear-up when u respawn so universal gold just makes sense

[Borson]

What would happen if your local bank was destroyed?

Have fun

[Nardurian]

What would happen if your local bank was destroyed?

That's one reason why universal banks are iffy. How do you consider a bank plundering? Do you lose a % of your money? All? None? Then bank robbery becomes useless. If it's all local, you keep a part of your fortune in it, but if one bank gets plundered, you don't lose everything cause you have things in another bank. Logical no?

[Artor]

I was the other.

Banks should be limited to your clan's city. It would make people think about joining a clan instead of being usless meatbags. (I love that term)

The banks items would be local only. Kind of like if you leave something in a safety deposit box..it stays there untill you go get it.

However you could make Money universal in the sense most banks do it. No charge from your guild bank, but if you withdrawl from somewheres else there is a 10-20% fee.

I believe this would work well. Let me know what you think.

[Koshikata]

I would have to say money universal, since even with standard communications banks could "update" their ledger on you for every bank. If there is any sort of accepted magical instant communication then that would account for you ledger being updated immediately.

Iterms should be local, and maybe you could set permissions for access to items to other guild members, especially if there is a spell to transport an item magically to another player in your guild.

With a full loot system. You need money being universal unless you will always respawn in your home town, otherwise you could end up exploring a new are for you, get killed by somebody and end up without money or items, stranded a ways away from any bank where you do have money. You would have to have a guild member come out to you with some spare equipment.

I think during bank looting items aren't recoverable (except if you kill the bank robbers and get it back) but money, if universal, should only take a small hit, since the bank, if managed centrally by NPCs/Guild would want to keep money in motion and not stored in only one place.

[LionbI4]

Idea of guild's bank is good.
You can deposite amount of money in one town and get same amount in another town, if your guild has enought money in this town.
Means if noone from your guild deposited any coin in this town on your guild account - you will not be able to withdraw your money.

The idea about robing a bank is good too - there will be a sence to attack an enemy city as well as defend your race/guild city. Let's say you will need ~8h to control city to force a bank door.

[Mooshen]

Bank Building Levels
lvl 1: allows deposit/withdrawal of gold to ppl visiting the local bank.
lvl 2: allows deposit/withdrawal of items to ppl visiting the local bank.
lvl 3: allows deposit/withdrawal of items and gold to ppl visiting any other bank in a bank link

Bank Link
Clans may set up links between their own banks (provided they are all lvl 3) or even other clans banks (provided the other clan agrees).

I like the system Claus talks about here, I voted for 'other'

[AGrimZombie]

Well I voted for universal money, local items

But if I could have it my way I would want it like, when you take money out of a bank where you don't have any gold deposted, you can transfer gold(and only gold) from another bank with some kind of percent based charge...maybe depending on how far away it is...

[Stas_Blade]

Why no option for money local and items universal? j/k :)

Yes, I agree that money universal and items local would be best. I would go as far as to restrict bank space to only the smallest items and force players to use their private housing, or guild houses for item storage.

[Shadow Walker2020]

It will be tested in alpha and beta. We like the idea that if you deposit a longsword in a bank, you have to go back to the exact same bank to withdraw it. However this might prove too annoying in the long run, and as with everything else, we have to consider gameplay issues vs. realism.

The best reason why they should have universal banks.

Gameplay issues vs. realism

[TiraX]

I voted money global and item local. But im not sure, would be cool to have to move your money if switching town.

[Azash_AT]

I voted for money universal and items local. However I think this should come with a huge caviat that money should only be universal to your race or an allied race.

Why would orks carry humans gold vouchers? More over if the AI racial alignment is how I think you shouldnt even be possible according to game mechanics. So to a large extent this question is already answered. Banks HAVE to be regionalized its just to what extent are we talking.

If not the developers will have contradicted themselves about the racial AI/Alignment issue.


However bank account warping should be fairly limited cause it will heavily and negatively impact the games trade and strategic conflict features. So universal banking is not the universal plus to gaming everyone first takes it for. IN many of the same respects it falls flat on its face like teleporting/recalling. Something thats a convienece that makes the overall game worse in the end.

[Drizzt250]

Universal $$ and local items. why? it promotes the transportation of items which promotes bandits and theives which in turn makes the game more exciting. It also makes a need for escorts(eg paying other people to escort you across a dangerous road).

[Shadow Walker2020]

I voted for money universal and items local. However I think this should come with a huge caviat that money should only be universal to your race or an allied race.

Why would orks carry humans gold vouchers? More over if the AI racial alignment is how I think you shouldnt even be possible according to game mechanics. So to a large extent this question is already answered. Banks HAVE to be regionalized its just to what extent are we talking.

If not the developers will have contradicted themselves about the racial AI/Alignment issue.


However bank account warping should be fairly limited cause it will heavily and negatively impact the games trade and strategic conflict features. So universal banking is not the universal plus to gaming everyone first takes it for. IN many of the same respects it falls flat on its face like teleporting/recalling. Something thats a convienece that makes the overall game worse in the end.


But if the game is made too inconvienent, then players will become annoyed by the monotiny of having to run all over the place to find a weapon or other item they left in a bank in a town somewhere.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Universal $$ and local items. why? it promotes the transportation of items which promotes bandits and theives which in turn makes the game more exciting. It also makes a need for escorts(eg paying other people to escort you across a dangerous road).


Even with universal banks, bandits are still going to exist. They will have the option of attacking a group of adventurers who just came back from an excursion in a dungeon. They can attack crafters who are in the wilderness gathering resources. Or they can attack and break into houses and steal things.

As for hiring people, crafters can still hire other players to act as body guards while they are out gathering resources.

Caravans will still be needed to transport large ammounts of resources and finished goods. Bank boxes have a limited ammount of storage space and wont have the room to hold the ammounts of items and resources that will be traded in bulk, even if those boxes are universal. I hardly think that a bank box will be able to hold a clans entire order for items or resources. Nor will a peddler who sells items out of his bank box be able to deliver the ammounts that a clan would need in the ammount of time they are need in. Say a clan is expecting an attack from a rival clan. They are going to need large ammounts of resources and finished items, such as weapons and armor, as qucikly as possible. Say the clan needs 10,000 arrows, 500 bows, 500 swords, 500 spears, 80 trained war horses, 500 suits of full plate mail, 10,000 boards, 10,000 ingots, 10,000 of each reagent, and several anti-seige engine devices. There is no way that someone can transport all of the items listed above in a universal bank box. They are going to need to transport it via caravan. And thats why they will still be needed.

[Ashibar]

Items and Money universal...

I want to make sure that everybody has easy access to their sweet weapons and loots so that it's not as much of a hassle to retrieve those items so I can kill you and take them.

:cool:

[Silverhaze]

items never ever universal.... would be too annoying

for what trade caravans and things like that if banks are universal? :bang:

what should be universal is gold...

the realisitc way

the only thing what i would think about is some kind of "transport system" same as ups in RL... you could send item z from bank a to bank b via automated transport, if you are in bank a or b..... of corse, tit costs you alot of gold, AND needs some time (depending of way from a to b 1-4 days).... that way you could be save nobody could loot you so you loose your item, but it will not be the standard way to move trade goods (to expensive, time consuming)

think that should be the way bank system works ingame

[Valmora]

universal items and gold...

if i am halfway to some where else and get owned and looted i dont want to have to spend travel time all the way back to my local bank to get my next set of gear and then have to spend all that time traveling back to the spot where i went down... i want to be able to gear up asap and get some pay back...

i plan on having good gear so unsure what you could buy locally...

[Silverhaze]

universal items and gold...

if i am halfway to some where else and get owned and looted i dont want to have to spend travel time all the way back to my local bank to get my next set of gear and then have to spend all that time traveling back to the spot where i went down... i want to be able to gear up asap and get some pay back...

i plan on having good gear so unsure what you could buy locally...

if you got looted go to bank, take some universal gold, and buy new stuff .... it's that easy :idea:

or go out in the bushes, find a newb, kill hin, and take his/her stuff

[Zelse]

it may make it tough if somthing goes wrong and ur kicked from a clan and they decied to hold onto all ur things(not that i usually have problems like that but, just look at the kids in WoW.)also early on the game will be tough to travel in since nobody knows the way around so when u finally make ur where u needed to get to it might be nice to have made it there with a light lode on ur back insted of carrying all ur worldly possesions and still have easy access to what u made urs

[Azash_AT]

universal items and gold...

if i am halfway to some where else and get owned and looted i dont want to have to spend travel time all the way back to my local bank to get my next set of gear and then have to spend all that time traveling back to the spot where i went down... i want to be able to gear up asap and get some pay back...

i plan on having good gear so unsure what you could buy locally...

Dude if your halfway to somewhere else and you get owned and looted odds are your spawning back in the same dam town where your localized bank is. So your still running back to where you died.

[Agge]

I don't see why people wouldn't sell their crap at one place then, bank the money and buy the same crap somwhere else thus effectively banking items...

:/

[Yarias]

Because selling stuff will likely be alot harder than walking up to an NPC and hitting a sell button. Plus, if you wanted to do it really quick you'd have to sell for less than an item is worth and buy for more than it is worth (unless you are really lucky and ALWAYS find someone with a deal).

[jww808]

I went ahead and voted for universal money, but not items... just because we don't really now how long it's going to take to travel about the world. So i don't know if i would want either to be local. Death aside ... if you are way out in the middle of nowhere and need to access your bank... sounds like it could be a pain in the butt. although i suppose you could just always have your stuff in a bank near were you are playing. *shrugs*

[alfaroverall]

I voted for Money and items local.
Since you can easily buy any gears in any city, your travel between countries will be too easy - take fast horse, minimum gears, and go-non-stop untill reach destination. No risk on death. Easy to migrate in any location. This can lead to massive migrations to locations, where there are better monsters/resources/pvp fun, and finally leads to lags.
I'm not sure if this is walking or riding, but travel time is 12 hours across the map. With sensory mob aggro 12 hours won't go by without a fight. And if you're referring to the WoW practice of "die in a gy's radius and rez there, die again near diff gy rez there" you're bound to a clanstone, Chaos Stone (outlaws) or (not sure about this one) a major city's stone.

[OrMZeN]

I think everything should be local, it would make it so much more realistic, and people would have to be more careful with their posessions.
If they want to live in another town they have to move all their stuff there, including the cash, and therefor you'll have to carefully plan your route to the next town, to make sure not to be ambushed.
And perhaps hire some guards/pack-donkeys to protect you / carry your stuff.

[TiraX]

Yeah, really promotes the economy of small places. Unless you have guild behind you supplying weapons and armor all over the world, you will need to buy new stuff.

Local money, it's a nice idea but to unfair. If you are going to move to another town you risk loosing everything you own. It would really lock players to a specific area. About global bank.. tibia had a post system where you could send money and items to a person in a specific town. It hink that would be nice, tibia didn't have a delay, but 1-2 hours could be realistic, or even at specific times, like 12:00, 14:00 etc.

Basicly if you want items in a certain town, you mail them to a deposit box there, waiting for you when you arrive. However, it must be either very limited or expensive. Because else it would be used for moving resources between towns. And I think all of us wants trade routes, and pirates that comes along with it.

[st33m]

Money universal, items local.

[Shadow Walker2020]

items never ever universal.... would be too annoying

for what trade caravans and things like that if banks are universal? :bang:

what should be universal is gold...

the realisitc way

the only thing what i would think about is some kind of "transport system" same as ups in RL... you could send item z from bank a to bank b via automated transport, if you are in bank a or b..... of corse, tit costs you alot of gold, AND needs some time (depending of way from a to b 1-4 days).... that way you could be save nobody could loot you so you loose your item, but it will not be the standard way to move trade goods (to expensive, time consuming)

think that should be the way bank system works ingame

Acutally, carvans would still be needed even if the banks are universal. Heres why. Caravans will still be needed to transport large ammounts of resources and finished goods. Bank boxes have a limited ammount of storage space and wont have the room to hold the ammounts of items and resources that will be traded in bulk, even if those boxes are universal. I hardly think that a bank box will be able to hold a clans entire order for items or resources. Nor will a peddler who sells items out of his bank box be able to deliver the ammounts that a clan would need in the ammount of time they are need in. Say a clan is expecting an attack from a rival clan. They are going to need large ammounts of resources and finished items, such as weapons and armor, as qucikly as possible. Say the clan needs 10,000 arrows, 500 bows, 500 swords, 500 spears, 80 trained war horses, 500 suits of full plate mail, 10,000 boards, 10,000 ingots, 10,000 of each reagent, and several anti-seige engine devices. There is no way that someone can transport all of the items listed above in a universal bank box. They are going to need to transport it via caravan. And thats why they will still be needed.

[Srolyat]

This is something I hated about every other MMO. Things you put into a storage of some type in one place, shouldn't automatically show up in another. I believe there could/should be some type of request to have your things delivered to that bank, but it would take time to make things more realistic.

[Shadow Walker2020]

This is something I hated about every other MMO. Things you put into a storage of some type in one place, shouldn't automatically show up in another. I believe there could/should be some type of request to have your things delivered to that bank, but it would take time to make things more realistic.


And no one is going to want to wait around at the bank for their items to show up. Also, with localized banks, it gives players seemingly unlimited 100% safe places to store items. No one will store things in their houses. Burglers and thieves who hit houses will suffer the most.

[Azash_AT]

And no one is going to want to wait around at the bank for their items to show up. Also, with localized banks, it gives players seemingly unlimited 100% safe places to store items. No one will store things in their houses. Burglers and thieves who hit houses will suffer the most.

If banks have limited storage space then this is a moot point. By limited storage space I would think anything beyond a suite of armor some weapons and your gold and thats it.

[Shadow Walker2020]

If banks have limited storage space then this is a moot point. By limited storage space I would think anything beyond a suite of armor some weapons and your gold and thats it.


Wow, that came out of left field. I didnt say anything about banks having unlimted storage. I merely pointed out that localized banks give players multiple 100% safe places to store items without needing to store anything in their houses. then, burgers and others who make a living off of breaking into other players houses will be "put out of business" so to speak. Atleast with universal banks, players only get one bank box with a limited storage space, so they will have to store things in their houses. And, since houses can be destoryed, players are risking their items and resources by storing things in their house.

I do agree that bank boxes storage space should be limited, but not to the degree that you are taking about. Only letting players store one suit of armor in them hurts players who wont have houses and will have to live out of their bank box.

[Azash_AT]

Localized banks do not specifically ential multiple bank boxes. It just means that if you stuff is depostited in a box in a bank in city A then only three cities out you can access your material. Let me diagram. This is gonna suck so bare with me


City A (stuff is here)---City B (accessible---City C(accessible)---City D(no)

So its still only one bank box but the range that you can access it from is limited. Whereas with universal storage wherver you go completely on the other side of the world or into a lost continet the local banks still have your gear. Although again and I think we agree the storage space would have to be very limited on my example also to facilitate local trade.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Localized banks do not specifically ential multiple bank boxes. It just means that if you stuff is depostited in a box in a bank in city A then only three cities out you can access your material. Let me diagram. This is gonna suck so bare with me


City A (stuff is here)---City B (accessible---City C(accessible)---City D(no)

So its still only one bank box but the range that you can access it from is limited. Whereas with universal storage wherver you go completely on the other side of the world or into a lost continet the local banks still have your gear. Although again and I think we agree the storage space would have to be very limited on my example also to facilitate local trade.

Actually, it does mean multiple secure places to store items. How about this:

Humans elves and dwarves are all aligned with one another. That means they have access to one anothers cities and the banks there in. There are, that we know about, about 4 NPC cities in each kingdom of the humans, elves and dwarves that cannot be taken over. 3 of those cities being starting cities and 1 being the racial capitol. So, for the humans elves and dwarves that means they each have 12 potential 100% safe places to store items.

Now, take the orks and mahirim. They are aligned. They have about the same number of NPC cities that cannot be taken over in their territories as the humans, dwarves and elves. The orks and mahirim have about 8 potential 100% safe places to store items.

Then we come to the alfar. They have 4 NPC cities that cannot be taken over and 4 100% safe places to store items.

Looking at all of this, it seems that the humans, elves and dwarves have a huge and unfair advantage over the other races as they have about 12 places to store items completely securely. This is what happens with localized banking.

With universal banking, each character has only 1 bank box with a limited storage capacity to work with. Everyone is on the same level.

[Silverhaze]

Actually, it does mean multiple secure places to store items. How about this:

Humans elves and dwarves are all aligned with one another. That means they have access to one anothers cities and the banks there in. There are, that we know about, about 4 NPC cities in each kingdom of the humans, elves and dwarves that cannot be taken over. 3 of those cities being starting cities and 1 being the racial capitol. So, for the humans elves and dwarves that means they each have 12 potential 100% safe places to store items.

Now, take the orks and mahirim. They are aligned. They have about the same number of NPC cities that cannot be taken over in their territories as the humans, dwarves and elves. The orks and mahirim have about 8 potential 100% safe places to store items.

Then we come to the alfar. They have 4 NPC cities that cannot be taken over and 4 100% safe places to store items.

Looking at all of this, it seems that the humans, elves and dwarves have a huge and unfair advantage over the other races as they have about 12 places to store items completely securely. This is what happens with localized banking.

With universal banking, each character has only 1 bank box with a limited storage capacity to work with. Everyone is on the same level.

easy: everybody could only have 4 boxes in 4 different towns.... as soon as you opened your 4th, you will not be able to open more of them in npc-citys

which ones you use is up to you

and you could close them... take every item out of it, close bank account in a city, take all you items to another, and open one....

so no advantage for you if your race have more allies :idea:

[PrideFC]

I prefer universal bank for money, items i prefer to be local.

[Azash_AT]

easy: everybody could only have 4 boxes in 4 different towns.... as soon as you opened your 4th, you will not be able to open more of them in npc-citys

which ones you use is up to you

and you could close them... take every item out of it, close bank account in a city, take all you items to another, and open one....

so no advantage for you if your race have more allies :idea:

Yeah man. SWG simply had you designate a bank as your safety deposit box bank back in the day. Once that was done you couldnt access it from any other place in the game. In other words Money was accessible anywhere while items were not. Its simply a bit of code while you have one designated you cant open it up anywhere.

That one can be opened based on radius. I dont think you got that. Im not talking about the NPC cities im talking about radius of distance. If you stuff is stored in City A you can only access it in other cities within a 2km radius. IE its univeral but only locally. So if you attempt to gather your belongings from a bank in a city that is 5km away your items are not there.

However I can already see myself that such a system could be seriously exploited. You could leap frog materials across the planet. You wouldnt eliminate risk but it would sure as hell minimize it.

[weir]

Money universal and items locally. I like some of the ideas about paying to have items transported to you and the low weight limit for bank with paid warehouse for overflow items.

[Marrik]

i said all universal but actually i think i agree with local items and universal money now

[Shadow Walker2020]

easy: everybody could only have 4 boxes in 4 different towns.... as soon as you opened your 4th, you will not be able to open more of them in npc-citys

which ones you use is up to you

and you could close them... take every item out of it, close bank account in a city, take all you items to another, and open one....

so no advantage for you if your race have more allies :idea:


Then youd have the problem of people not being able to store items when they are far from those banks. That means that someone just got killed and they respawn at the town they just went through but they cant open their bank box there because they already used up their 4 bank boxes. Which means they are going to have to trek all the way back to the banks where they do have items stored so they can re equip, but they have to do it with nothing, since they cannot access their bank box, they cannot access their gold.

Also, players just getting back from a dungeon wont be able to deposite their earnings. They will have to carry their belongings all the way back to the towns where they have banks boxes. People will be stuck only going to dunegons that are near the towns where they have boxes.

Localized banking causes players to stay in one place. It is too restricting because it restricts access to items players have stored away for survival. Universal banking gives players more freedom to travel since they can access their banked items anywere in the world so long as they are at a friendly bank.

[GhOsTeth]

I kinda find all of this discussion funny.

I think that games like WoW have really poisoned peoples minds about how things work in a more "realistic" game.

In WoW it makes sense to have universal banks. The time to travel between cities is mute. Anywhere from 5-10 mins max.

In Darkfall, going between racial capitals will take 2+ hours of traveling depending on proximity. This will take out the need for a universal bank. If you are going to be traveling 2+ hours to get somewhere you will probably be going there for a major move, or reason.

I think the banks should work just like they do today as far as money and items.

If you deposit your money in bank A then at any bank owned by company A you will be able to retrieve your money. Bank B will just look at you and laugh if you try to get money from them that you did not deposit with them.

My suggestion:

Have racial and clan banks. Each racial or clan bank will have universal money between them. Items should only be housed in the bank that they are originally put in. You should start out with minimal space for storage and should be able to buy extra space for a decent fee.

I think that you will find that there wont be alot of people storing stuff 2-4 hours away just because they have the ability to. If it was only a 5 min flight with no chance of being attacked I would say universal banks all the way, but alas it is not.

[Silverhaze]

Then youd have the problem of people not being able to store items when they are far from those banks. That means that someone just got killed and they respawn at the town they just went through but they cant open their bank box there because they already used up their 4 bank boxes. Which means they are going to have to trek all the way back to the banks where they do have items stored so they can re equip, but they have to do it with nothing, since they cannot access their bank box, they cannot access their gold.

Also, players just getting back from a dungeon wont be able to deposite their earnings. They will have to carry their belongings all the way back to the towns where they have banks boxes. People will be stuck only going to dunegons that are near the towns where they have boxes.

Localized banking causes players to stay in one place. It is too restricting because it restricts access to items players have stored away for survival. Universal banking gives players more freedom to travel since they can access their banked items anywere in the world so long as they are at a friendly bank.

first of all... you don't have to restock from a bank, just go to a bank, take some of your universal gold, visit a local trader and buy some new stuff...

and, you will not spawn at the next town, just bind where you have your stuff if you don't wanna buy new stuff after you got killed...

if you don't wanna travel back all the way - well, just don't get killed, easy like that

it's just good for business and economy if ppl have to buy stuff everywhere they got killed ... that's why universal item banks are bad for economy

and after all, if you are in a dungeon, you have to bring your stuff back home - if you got killed your problem, next time bring some more friends... easy like that

this game is about pvp, and risk while carrying around your loot... it's not that easy like most of the other games out there, and it should not be that easy

universal banks for items sucks in my opinion, universal gold is good for economy and realism and because of that -> fun

[Shadow Walker2020]

first of all... you don't have to restock from a bank, just go to a bank, take some of your universal gold, visit a local trader and buy some new stuff...

so, what, players are supposed to have two seperate bank boxes? one for cash and one for items?

and, you will not spawn at the next town, just bind where you have your stuff if you don't wanna buy new stuff after you got killed...

What if your with a group of clan mates or other travelers and you get killed and you need to get back to your allies?

if you don't wanna travel back all the way - well, just don't get killed, easy like that

Just dont get killed? You do know that this is Darkfall right?

it's just good for business and economy if ppl have to buy stuff everywhere they got killed ... that's why universal item banks are bad for economy

And how do universal banks stop players from doing that anyway? Why, because they can have access to a suit of armor any where any time? That suit of armor they have sotred away in their universal bank will eventually be lost in battle too, therefore players will still have to buy spare suits of armor when they die.

and after all, if you are in a dungeon, you have to bring your stuff back home - if you got killed your problem, next time bring some more friends... easy like that

Bring some friends. Sounds to me like localized banks will discourage solo players.

this game is about pvp, and risk while carrying around your loot... it's not that easy like most of the other games out there, and it should not be that easy

If players cant get things back to the bank, then they will not be able to save up money and other things and they will not prosper. Also, universal banks do not stop players from being attacked and having their lootings taken away. It just means that every single person coming back from the dungeon wont have to carry all of their loot on them all of the time.

universal banks for items sucks in my opinion, universal gold is good for economy and realism and because of that -> fun


Localized banks = frustration. Having to keep track of where everything is and then having to go get it is a massive headach. This isnt a small ingame world, its big, very big. Having to run from town to town all the time is going to get old very fast and will annoy players. Universal banks simplifies things. Universal Banks also gives players more roaming space since many will probably not stray too far from the area where their local bank is located since that is where they keep a majority of their belongings.


but I think that the devs said it best:


It will be tested in alpha and beta. We like the idea that if you deposit a longsword in a bank, you have to go back to the exact same bank to withdraw it. However this might prove too annoying in the long run, and as with everything else, we have to consider gameplay issues vs. realism.

[Azash_AT]

so, what, players are supposed to have two seperate bank boxes? one for cash and one for items?

Actually this is quite easy to do. Simply make the gold stored as a counter. INstead of storing a "pile of gold" like UO you open your universal gold bank and it is simply a number 3,543,672 gold. You withdraw 100,000 and the number drops to 3,443,672 gold. Its a very simple concept and it has nothing to do with an actual "box" per say.

The exact system the majority of people are voting for is exactly what SWG had and wasnt restrictive at all.


All in all its not that bad. Also the fact that over 72% of the people at least want localized item banking. Localized items and universal gold is the best balance. It allows individuals to travel without being straded they have access to there gold but also adds enough realistic limitations on them to make the game somewhat realistc and fun by adding a degree of difficulty and complexity.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Actually this is quite easy to do. Simply make the gold stored as a counter. INstead of storing a "pile of gold" like UO you open your universal gold bank and it is simply a number 3,543,672 gold. You withdraw 100,000 and the number drops to 3,443,672 gold. Its a very simple concept and it has nothing to do with an actual "box" per say.

The exact system the majority of people are voting for is exactly what SWG had and wasnt restrictive at all.


All in all its not that bad. Also the fact that over 72% of the people at least want localized item banking. Localized items and universal gold is the best balance. It allows individuals to travel without being straded they have access to there gold but also adds enough realistic limitations on them to make the game somewhat realistc and fun by adding a degree of difficulty and complexity.

SWG in game worlds arent as big as Darkfall's will be. And since magical travel will be restricted, its going to take a long time to get around and having to travel from town to town looking for an item you stored in some bank box is going to be monotinous and annoying. Realism is okay, but too much of realities monotiny slipping into a game makes it as boring as real life.

[Nehemia]

Everything local.. So I can rob your banks.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Everything local.. So I can rob your banks.


You'd never make it out of town alive.

[Azash_AT]

Dude think alternatively.

Buy a boat put it in the hold store the boat in the harbor. Bam you can carry X amount of loot with you wherever you go. Its just risky when your traveling as it should be.

Completely safe no risk insta univeresal storage is so unrealist it hurts other aspects of the game. So if you need a specific item you should carry it with you. Otherwise simply having access to your gold or alternative storage means like a house or ship should suffice.

I mean there is nothing saying that if yoru going to be in the area for awhile build a small house for storage in the local town. When your ready to leave load up your ship and away you go. Or sell your gear for something smaller and more valuable that you can more eaisly travel with.


The point is there are many realistic ways to deal with the inconviences of a non universal bank. However the damage to the game that can be done by universal banking aka 100% totaly secure item transfers over long distance not to mention stealth supply in sieged cities (critical items can be moved in regardless of size limitations) is irreprable.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Dude think alternatively.

Buy a boat put it in the hold store the boat in the harbor. Bam you can carry X amount of loot with you wherever you go. Its just risky when your traveling as it should be.

Completely safe no risk insta univeresal storage is so unrealist it hurts other aspects of the game. So if you need a specific item you should carry it with you. Otherwise simply having access to your gold or alternative storage means like a house or ship should suffice.

The items will be risked when the player chooses to take the items out. Also, items that are needed will be the only thing that is stored in a bank box and players will need almost constant access to their tiems and stored gear so they can recover when they are killed.

Localized banks make houses obsoloete. With localized banks, players can have multiple 100% safe places to store items. Why store something in your house or boat that can be broken into or destoryed when you can simply store it in one of your completely safe bank boxes?

Items dont need to be risked all at once just because your traveling. Thats the point of a bank box, so when you are killed, you go to the bank, access it, and put on your spare gear, thus risking that gear yet again when you leave town. The only way something is never risked is when it is never used or taken out of a bank box.

I mean there is nothing saying that if yoru going to be in the area for awhile build a small house for storage in the local town. When your ready to leave load up your ship and away you go.

And where is a player suppoed to keep getting all of these resources and money to be able keeping building houses in every town they enter.

Or sell your gear for something smaller and more valuable that you can more eaisly travel with.

And what if my gear is so badly damaged and wasnt worth anything to begin with? I suppose you think everything shares the same highend value and price?

The point is there are many realistic ways to deal with the inconviences of a non universal bank. However the damage to the game that can be done by universal banking aka 100% totaly secure item transfers over long distance not to mention stealth supply in sieged cities (critical items can be moved in regardless of size limitations) is irreprable.

Stealth supply? Do you even know how a universal bank works? Unless that person was originally stock pileing items into their bank BEFORE the seige, as someone would do anyway with a localized bank, then they wont be getting items into the city. And heres the part that really kills me:


(critical items can be moved in regardless of size limitations)

Yeah, this would be an issue if bank boxes didnt have a storage capacity limit, which they do. So, that argument is moot.


You talk about hurting the game, but you fail to mention the issue of ingame world size vs. localized banks. Its a big ingame world in Darkfall. Its going to take someone forever to get aorund looking for an item they have stored away in a bank box. It going to get real old real fast having to run around looking for one item that is stored in a town many miles away. The only way to remedy that would be to make magical travel easier and cheaper so players can teleport from town to town looking for that particular item. But no one wants that.

Also, for players who wont be so fortunate to have a house or boat (and there will be such players) will need constant access to their bank box to keep track of items they have stored away because they cannot afford a house or a boat.

The point of a bank box is so that items and money can be saved. Forcing players to have to risk everything they have saves constantly will kill the game for many players who are used to being able to save something and have something stored away for a really bad day so they dont lose everything and can contiune to play the game as something other than a naked newb who lost everything.

[piratelol]

I voted universal money local items, but you should only be able to withdraw money from other banks where you alignment is friendly or greater if it isnt the bankers should say somthing like, "We cannot trust you (name) but you have X amount of money in our banking system." Or maybe a percent of your money could be globally withdrawn depending on your alignment.

[Rossm]

money universal, items local please

[dw-LoP]

Local banks have the benefit of being able to have more storage space. Dump a ton of stuff in Bank A.. travel to Bank B and have a completely empty box to store more loot in, for all of us pack rats :)

[Stax]

Its nice having realism in a game.....but the devs have said it themselves, that sometimes game play has to take over instead of the realism. Example, tree's give resource, but they don't actually get chopped down. The realism is nice, but not important in certain issues. That being said, I think items and money should be fully universal with banks. However, I'm not going to cry what ever is decided.

[Irodim]

Its nice having realism in a game.....but the devs have said it themselves, that sometimes game play has to take over instead of the realism. Example, tree's give resource, but they don't actually get chopped down. The realism is nice, but not important in certain issues. That being said, I think items and money should be fully universal with banks. However, I'm not going to cry what ever is decided.

To try and tilt you in favor of Universal Money//Local Items here is my point. Crafters like you and me will benifit from Universal everything because we won't have to carry our items between towns. This will take away a major feature that DarkFall is going for: Pirates. People won't carry belongings on ships if they can pick it up in the town they are going to.

Which is why people can argue for Universal everything but it just won't happen.

[Shadow Walker2020]

To try and tilt you in favor of Universal Money//Local Items here is my point. Crafters like you and me will benifit from Universal everything because we won't have to carry our items between towns. This will take away a major feature that DarkFall is going for: Pirates. People won't carry belongings on ships if they can pick it up in the town they are going to.

Which is why people can argue for Universal everything but it just won't happen.


Pirates? Really? I thought the devs were going for a game that focused on siges and PvP.

Anyway, shipping items by caravan and boat are still going to be the main methods of transporting large ammounts of finished good and resources even with universal banks.

I believe I calrified this earlier in the thread.

Caravans (and ships) will still be needed to transport large ammounts of resources and finished goods. Bank boxes have a limited ammount of storage space and wont have the room to hold the ammounts of items and resources that will be traded in bulk, even if those boxes are universal. I hardly think that a bank box will be able to hold a clans entire order for items or resources. Nor will a peddler who sells items out of his bank box be able to deliver the ammounts that a clan would need in the ammount of time they are need in. Say a clan is expecting an attack from a rival clan. They are going to need large ammounts of resources and finished items, such as weapons and armor, as qucikly as possible. Say the clan needs 10,000 arrows, 500 bows, 500 swords, 500 spears, 80 trained war horses, 500 suits of full plate mail, 10,000 boards, 10,000 ingots, 10,000 of each reagent, and several anti-seige engine devices. There is no way that someone can transport all of the items listed above in a universal bank box. They are going to need to transport it via caravan. And thats why they will still be needed.

If a solo crafter wants to go from town to town peddleing wares out of his/her bank box, then its no real big thing. But for transporting seige engines, mounts, Large bulk orders of weapons and other finished goods and resources, caravans and ships will be invaluable.

Universal banks wont change that due to their storage capacity limit.

[Irodim]

Pirates? Really? I thought the devs were going for a game that focused on siges and PvP.

Anyway, shipping items by caravan and boat are still going to be the main methods of transporting large ammounts of finished good and resources even with universal banks.

I believe I calrified this earlier in the thread.



If a solo crafter wants to go from town to town peddleing wares out of his/her bank box, then its no real big thing. But for transporting seige engines, mounts, Large bulk orders of weapons and other finished goods and resources, caravans and ships will be invaluable.

Universal banks wont change that due to their storage capacity limit.
So there is no PvP involved when you are a pirate? Will people not try to recruit a pirate clan when trying to seige a costal city? Please try and make countering your arguement a little bit harder than moving a couple of your words around. And you have been around for a while so I am sure you know that many people want to be a pirate when the game comes out.

How many characters per account? We don't know yet but I know it's more than one. So people transfer the items to their alt characters put it in their banks and then transfer the items to the town they need. There are ways around it and if a guild/clan wants to start a war against a guild and move items around, their guild/clan should be of good size so that they can do this quickly.

I am not to worried that they will make at the very least items local. But money is another story I do not know if they are going to make it local or universal. If they want to make it "realistic" (I do not like that as a reason to do anything) then they would make money universal. If they wanted to make money common when looting a body they would make it local.

[Fallnangel]

i voted money universial and items local...like in real life you can get your money where ever you are...but u can't get ur personal belongings

[Metrobius]

This is a great Poll.

I played the EvE trial and that alone convinced me that the mony universal, items local system is the way to go. I,m thinking about starting a shipping service that provides armed transport of valuable goods from one city to another, and the universal bank would ruin that. I look forward to doing business with all of you. The highwaymen and the clients.

[Shadow Walker2020]

How many characters per account? We don't know yet but I know it's more than one. So people transfer the items to their alt characters put it in their banks and then transfer the items to the town they need. There are ways around it and if a guild/clan wants to start a war against a guild and move items around, their guild/clan should be of good size so that they can do this quickly.

If one clan wants to attack another clan, they cant use their bank box to get their equipment to the enemy city to attack it as there arent banks right ouside of town and they cant put seige engines in their bank boxes either. What are they supposed to do, walk into the city they are about to attack and access their bank box? They need to transport the items by land or sea.

If the defending clan was going to store items in their bank boxes, they would do that with universal banks or localized. :sly:

As for using their alt characters to get items into the city, how are they going to do that with the attackers right outside the city? Teleportation? Magical travel is limited in this game. Its expensive and takes forever to cast. if they try to get into the city from the outside with their alt characters, they will be killed and wont make it into the city anyway.

And, to log on your alt character, you must log off the one your clan character who is defending the city. If the number of clan members needed to make such a large transfer were to log off their defender characters and log on their other characters, the city will be left virtually undefended as a majority of the clan has left the city, making thigs very easy for the attackers.

I am not to worried that they will make at the very least items local. But money is another story I do not know if they are going to make it local or universal. If they want to make it "realistic" (I do not like that as a reason to do anything) then they would make money universal. If they wanted to make money common when looting a body they would make it local.

local items will get monotinous and annoying with having to run from town to town looking for a specific item. It will get very old very fast.

Not to mention that having localized banks will give players multiple 100% safe places to store items. No one will store items in their houses or boats since those can be destoryed. That will hurt burglers and will make breaking into houses pointless as nothing good will be stored there.

But I believe the devs put it best:


It will be tested in alpha and beta. We like the idea that if you deposit a longsword in a bank, you have to go back to the exact same bank to withdraw it. However this might prove too annoying in the long run, and as with everything else, we have to consider gameplay issues vs. realism.


Localized banks sound good, but in the long run, it will prove annoying when you consider the size of the ingame world. Players would rather spend their time playing the game and having fun than having to ride from town to town looking for a sword they found a few days ago and stored in a town on the other side of the kingdom.

[Shadow Walker2020]

This is a great Poll.

I played the EvE trial and that alone convinced me that the mony universal, items local system is the way to go. I,m thinking about starting a shipping service that provides armed transport of valuable goods from one city to another, and the universal bank would ruin that. I look forward to doing business with all of you. The highwaymen and the clients.


Universal banks wouldnt hurt anything. Heres why:

Caravans will still be needed to transport large ammounts of resources and finished goods. Bank boxes have a limited ammount of storage space and wont have the room to hold the ammounts of items and resources that will be traded in bulk, even if those boxes are universal. I hardly think that a bank box will be able to hold a clans entire order for items or resources. Nor will a peddler who sells items out of his bank box be able to deliver the ammounts that a clan would need in the ammount of time they are need in. Say a clan is expecting an attack from a rival clan. They are going to need large ammounts of resources and finished items, such as weapons and armor, as quickly as possible. Say the clan needs 10,000 arrows, 500 bows, 500 swords, 500 spears, 80 trained war horses, 500 suits of full plate mail, 10,000 boards, 10,000 ingots, 10,000 of each reagent, and several anti-seige engine devices. There is no way that someone can transport all of the items listed above in a universal bank box. They are going to need to transport it via caravan. And thats why they will still be needed.

[Teth]

Universal banks wouldnt hurt anything. Heres why:

Caravans will still be needed to transport large ammounts of resources and finished goods. Bank boxes have a limited ammount of storage space and wont have the room to hold the ammounts of items and resources that will be traded in bulk, even if those boxes are universal. I hardly think that a bank box will be able to hold a clans entire order for items or resources. Nor will a peddler who sells items out of his bank box be able to deliver the ammounts that a clan would need in the ammount of time they are need in. Say a clan is expecting an attack from a rival clan. They are going to need large ammounts of resources and finished items, such as weapons and armor, as quickly as possible. Say the clan needs 10,000 arrows, 500 bows, 500 swords, 500 spears, 80 trained war horses, 500 suits of full plate mail, 10,000 boards, 10,000 ingots, 10,000 of each reagent, and several anti-seige engine devices. There is no way that someone can transport all of the items listed above in a universal bank box. They are going to need to transport it via caravan. And thats why they will still be needed.
You just split up the transfer across multiple bank boxes. Easy. "Alright, you twenty people - it's bankbox transfer time. C'mon, get loading up!"

No good, guv. No good at all. D:

[Irodim]

Teth, I have experience with argueing against ShadowWalker on another issue and all his arguements were countered except he will make up some lame excuse to why we didn't own him.

On one arguement (I wasn't a part of this I was shown this during my arguement with him) he was trying to argue the fact that making houses indestructable is not a step towards carebear.

I would suggest just let him think on his own on topics.

[Silverhaze]

Shadow Walker2020
Normal User

Shadow Walker2020's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: The Shadows
Playstyle: Strict Role Player

----------------------------

and i thought roleplayers wanna have a realistic and authentic feeling about the world they are "living" in? really authentic if you could pack all your stuff in BANK A and put it out in BANK B around 250 km away from bank A.... and really authentic and realistic if you could let your house alone, somewhere in the bushes.... in a violent and warfare-area.... but nobody is able to burn it down :lmao:

[Teth]

Teth, I have experience with argueing against ShadowWalker on another issue and all his arguements were countered except he will make up some lame excuse to why we didn't own him.

On one arguement (I wasn't a part of this I was shown this during my arguement with him) he was trying to argue the fact that making houses indestructable is not a step towards carebear.

I would suggest just let him think on his own on topics.
This is one of those times where we compare registration dates, then I pat you on the head for your well-intentioned but ultimately meaningless suggestion and tell you to run along now, child - I know what I'm doing. :D

[Skiptag]

Universal Money, Local Items. Comes the closest to realism, plus it dates from the time of the crusades, where knights got a receit if they stored their gold in a lords keep, and could retrieve the gold from another (the basic idea of ATM's =D)

[Shadow Walker2020]

You just split up the transfer across multiple bank boxes. Easy. "Alright, you twenty people - it's bankbox transfer time. C'mon, get loading up!"

No good, guv. No good at all. D:

Your assuming that bank boxes can hold enough to be that effective.

And what about seige engines and mounts? Last I heard, you cant deed a seige engine and put it in a bank box.

And how are clans who are going to attack a city going to transport their items to a battle field to lay seige to a town?

[Shadow Walker2020]

Shadow Walker2020
Normal User

Shadow Walker2020's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: The Shadows
Playstyle: Strict Role Player

----------------------------

and i thought roleplayers wanna have a realistic and authentic feeling about the world they are "living" in? really authentic if you could pack all your stuff in BANK A and put it out in BANK B around 250 km away from bank A.... and really authentic and realistic if you could let your house alone, somewhere in the bushes.... in a violent and warfare-area.... but nobody is able to burn it down :lmao:

Really? And you want banks to have local items and universal gold? Hows that authentic? They didnt have money transfers in the middle ages, yet so many want to have something as equally unrealistic.

I dont "live" in some game world, child. That argument is weak and pathetic. Its a game, games arent real. If this game were 100% llike real life, there wouldnt be any dragons, elves, orks or magic. No one would play a warrior or an archer, no they would end up as peasants farming turnups all day, or dont you know how feudal life was. Also, there wouldnt be bind points either, your character would die and stay dead. so if this game were 100% like real life, it wouldnt be fun at all.

[Teth]

Really? And you want banks to have local items and universal gold? Hows that authentic? They didnt have money transfers in the middle ages, yet so many want to have something as equally unrealistic.
Actually, yes they did. This is precisely what the Knights Templar did, as well as many Italian banking firms. Bank notes, yo.

Even ancient Greece and Rome had developed the concept of the "bank note", where you would deposit money with one moneylender, they would give you a note, and you could claim up to that amount from another moneylender elsewhere.

It is a very ancient financial tool.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Teth, I have experience with argueing against ShadowWalker on another issue and all his arguements were countered except he will make up some lame excuse to why we didn't own him.

On one arguement (I wasn't a part of this I was shown this during my arguement with him) he was trying to argue the fact that making houses indestructable is not a step towards carebear.

I would suggest just let him think on his own on topics.


So you have to drudge up the past to defend your current stance? Thats the last refuge of the truely owned, boy.

Have you read any of my recent stances on house destruction? Obviously not. Peoples views change, dear child. When you grow up, maybe youll realize this.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Actually, yes they did. This is precisely what the Knights Templar did, as well as many Italian banking firms. Bank notes, yo.

Even ancient Greece and Rome had developed the concept of the "bank note", where you would deposit money with one bank, they would give you a note, and you could withdraw up to that amount from another affiliated bank elsewhere.

It is a very ancient financial tool.


What about the game play issues? Having to run from town to town looking for something you stored in a bank somewhere is a boring and tedious task that takes away from the players having fun and enjoying the game. Whats the solition to that? you seem to know so much. How is that issue supposed to be solved?

[alfaroverall]

Assuming what I've seen is correct (12 hour cross world travel time that is) you're not going to be changing regions a whole lot, hence local items and money. Why wouldn't you change regions a whole lot? Because each region has a pretty decent amount of resources (yet again, correct me if I'm wrong). It's not like simply because it's a forest Mirendil has no metal.

[Teth]

What about the game play issues? Having to run from town to town looking for something you stored in a bank somewhere is a boring and tedious task that takes away from the players having fun and enjoying the game. Whats the solition to that? you seem to know so much. How is that issue supposed to be solved?
Assets window, ala EVE. Lists all the places where you have items stored and what items those are. From there it's up to the player to keep things as centralized or as decentralized as they like.

For an example of what I'm talking about, this is my Assets screen in EVE (http://img415.imageshack.us/my.php?image=assetskg1.jpg). As you can see, I have expanded the Tendhyes bar to see exactly what I have stored there.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Assets window, ala EVE. Lists all the places where you have items stored and what items those are. From there it's up to the player to keep things as centralized or as decentralized as they like.


But that doesnt sovle the issue of travel time. Its still going to take time to go from town to town gathering the items.

Also, keeping items centralized discourages players exploring. It cramps different players play styles.

Not to mention that localized banks give players multiple 100% safe places to store items, thus not requiring them to store items in their houses and boats, thus, eliminates another risk factor in the game.

[Teth]

But that doesnt sovle the issue of travel time. Its still going to take time to go from town to town gathering the items.
That is entirely the fault of the player in question. I don't see why we should be coddling somebody who couldn't be bothered to keep their affairs neat and in order.

Also, keeping items centralized discourages players exploring. It cramps different players play styles.
Universal item banking also cramps different play styles, too. For example, it pretty much shoots any hopes for regionalized and relatively independent economies in the face. No more (or at least severely hampered) low-volume, high-profit "margin trading" between regions!

Not to mention that localized banks give players multiple 100% save places to store items, thus not requiring them to store items in their houses and boats, thus, eliminates another risk factor in the game.
As opposed to a single, universal, safe place to store items which they can access from anywhere, be it the heart of their guild's power or deep within hostile territory? :rolleyes:

Plus you have to remember that I'm in favour of items being destroyed (or lootable) along with their banks...therefore making the only *truly* safe banks those ones in NPC towns.

[Shadow Walker2020]

That is entirely the fault of the player in question. I don't see why we should be coddling somebody who couldn't be bothered to keep their affairs neat and in order.

So punish those who arent neat about everything. Thats a slap in the face to every casual gamer.


Universal item banking also cramps different play styles, too. For example, it pretty much shoots any hopes for regionalized and relatively independent economies in the face. No more (or at least severely hampered) low-volume, high-profit margin trading between regions!

It stops regional trading and independent economies? How? Its easy to hear big words and stuff like that on CNN then spout it out like you know what your saying.

As opposed to a single, universal, safe place to store items which they can access from anywhere, be it the heart of their guild's power or deep within hostile territory? :rolleyes:

How can you access a bank in hostile territory? Wont the enemy NPCs deny you access to your bank then kill you?

[Shadow Walker2020]

Plus you have to remember that I'm in favour of items being destroyed (or lootable) along with their banks...therefore making the only *truly* safe banks those ones in NPC towns.


Then unfair artificial racial advantages will emerge. Since the Humans have many more allies than the Alfar, humans will have multiple 100% safe NPC towns to store items in, since humans can enter elf and dwarf NPC cities.

[Teth]

Then unfair artificial racial advantages will emerge. Since the Humans have many more allies than the Alfar, humans will have multiple 100% safe NPC towns to store items in, since humans can enter elf and dwarf NPC cities.
Good. Make racial choice have a bit more weight - I'm not about to complain. I'm going alfar; I'm not asking for things to be fair. If I wanted a fair and balanced run of it I'd be playing a human or something.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Good. Make racial choice have a bit more weight - I'm not about to complain. I'm going alfar; I'm not asking for things to be fair. If I wanted a fair and balanced run of it I'd be playing a human or something.


Unfortuantely, thats just you. It would piss off alot of others to know that humans dwarves and elves have the biggest advantages over the other races since they will have more 100% safe places to store items and the race that they have chosen and want to play, say alfar or ork, will be getting the short end of the stick.

But that gets me to thinking. Go ahead, make the banks localized. Im gonna play human anyway. Thats more places for me to stash stuff. Ill just make sure ive got runes to every town where ive got stuff stored. That means if I find something rare and valuable and my one bank box is overloaded, I can just go store it in another NPC town and it will be 100% safe for as long as I need it to be and I wont have to sacrifice something already in my bank box. I wont have to risk anything in my house either because I wont need to store things there.

so yeah, make them localized. I changed my mind. It will make things alot easier.

[Teth]

So punish those who arent neat about everything. Thats a slap in the face to every casual gamer.
No, it's a slap in the face of everybody who can't be bothered to spend a few hours every few months to get their affairs in order. As I said, this is entirely up to the player here, and Darkfall does not seem to be very much in favour of mechanics that protect people from their own inability or incompetence. How is it's the game's fault that you're too lazy to keep things sorted and easily accessible?

It stops regional trading and independent economies? How? Its easy to hear big words and stuff like that on CNN then spout it out like you know what your saying.
If I can just store backup gear in my bank and access that anywhere, then I have no need to buy replacement swords from the local swordsmith. If I can just buy valuable reagents where they are plentiful and store them in my bank - and everyone can do this - then there is a diminished market for those people who buy the stuff where it is cheap, slog it to locations where it is rare, then resell at a markup. Incidentally, this is how I make a lot of my money in EVE; I get high-quality named modules out in lawless space (either from hunting or buying them up cheap), then go to the great market hubs of safe, secure space, and resell for 2 - 3x the amount.

If people could just go out to the same lawless spaces hella cheap, buy these items up en masse, then access them from wherever...well, that resale market would be severely hampered, if not annihilated outright. Such would be the fate of the low-volume, high-profit commodity trader; there would be a natural levelling tendency in item & resource prices as distances became increasingly irrelevant (and as such, regionalism became increasingly irrelevant).

Basically, universal banks are the economic equivalent of UO recall. Whatever you want, wherever you want, whenever you want! Great. :rolleyes:

How can you access a bank in hostile territory? Wont the enemy NPCs deny you access to your bank then kill you?
Let's say I found a NPC city there, or a clanstone was taken over. Suddenly, we have a portable armoury-in-a-can as everybody has unlimited access to their choice backup gear. Logistics? WHAT logistics? The only logistics we need to worry about now are those of the siege train.

No thanks.

Seriously, go play EVE to see how universal money plus local items works out. It will make a convert of you, if you've any sense in your head.

[Shadow Walker2020]

No, it's a slap in the face of everybody who can't be bothered to spend a few hours every few months to get their affairs in order. As I said, this is entirely up to the player here, and Darkfall does not seem to be very much in favour of mechanics that protect people from their own inability or incompetence. How is it's the game's fault that you're too lazy to keep things sorted and easily accessible?


If I can just store backup gear in my bank and access that anywhere, then I have no need to buy replacement swords from the local swordsmith. If I can just buy valuable reagents where they are plentiful and store them in my bank - and everyone can do this - then there is a diminished market for those people who buy the stuff where it is cheap, slog it to locations where it is rare, then resell at a markup. Incidentally, this is how I make a lot of my money in EVE; I get high-quality named modules out in lawless space (either from hunting or buying them up cheap), then go to the great market hubs of safe, secure space, and resell for 2 - 3x the amount.

If people could just go out to the same lawless spaces hella cheap, buy these items up en masse, then access them from wherever...well, that resale market would be severely hampered, if not annihilated outright. Such would be the fate of the low-volume, high-profit commodity trader; there would be a natural levelling tendency in item & resource prices as distances became increasingly irrelevant (and as such, regionalism became increasingly irrelevant).

Basically, universal banks are the economic equivalent of UO-style recall, or SB summon chains. Whatever you want, wherever you want, whenever you want! Great. :rolleyes:


Let's say I found a NPC city there, or a clanstone was taken over. Suddenly, we have a portable armoury-in-a-can as everybody has unlimited access to their choice backup gear. Logistics? WHAT logistics? The only logistics we need to worry about now are those of the siege train.

No thanks.

Seriously, go play EVE to see how universal money plus local items works out. It will make a convert of you, if you've any sense in your head.


you know what teth, I couldnt agree more. Ive had a change of heart. Localized items all the way.

I wont need to place a house. As a human I'll already have, what, about 12 100% safe places to store stuff thanks to my dwarf and elf allies. Plus, ill have multiple characters, so that means even more boxes to store stuff in.

And if I did place a house, I wouldnt lose anything. And all I need is a rune to every NPC town that ive got the stuff stored in. to never lose the runes, id have a spare and i would never use them outside of town. As soon as I get the my destination, which will be near the bank, all I have to do is bank the rune.

You know what teth, I owe you some thanks. youve just help me discover the exploit that has solved alot of my problems. Thanks.

[Teth]

The thing is Shadow, all of what you're going on about is every bit as possible with universal banks - except you wouldn't even need the multiple town trips; you could just saunter up to whichever bank you liked.

Fallacious counterpoint 4tl.

[Osirus]

Shadow, look at the map of Agon. what do you see between the human, mirdain, and dwarf regions? you see the ork,alfar, and marihim regions ... hardly guarentees the safe journey for humans into the dwarf or elf lands.

eve's banking system should be a standard model for any mmo.

[Shadow Walker2020]

The thing is Shadow, all of what you're going on about is every bit as possible with universal banks - except you wouldn't even need the multiple town trips; you could just saunter up to whichever bank you liked.

Fallacious counterpoint 4tl.


Yeah, but with a universal bank, I only get one bank box. With localized banks, I have multiple bank boxes. Thats what I was saying. How is what I said false?

You dont get it, im being sincere. I really mean it, I get it now. Now I know why everyone wants localized banks. Way more storage space with none of the risk. I wont need a house for storage, so nothing to worry about on that front. All I need to do is make it to a town, buy a rune off of someone, mark it myself, keep the rune banked, have a rune back my first bank box, load up my character, then teleport to my new bank and load that up with stuff. or just wait untill players are selling runes to these locations, buy them, then go there myself.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Shadow, look at the map of Agon. what do you see between the human, mirdain, and dwarf regions? you see the ork,alfar, and marihim regions ... hardly guarentees the safe journey for humans into the dwarf or elf lands.

eve's banking system should be a standard model for any mmo.

Well duh. Every kingdom is unsafe. I know its going to be risky, but all I have to do is make it to the city and bind there, thats all. Once I make it into the elf lands or darflands, buy cutting through the watcher wastes and staying off the main roads, my chances of making it to my destination increase. Not to mention that there will be players who will be selling runes to the other races cities too. After about 2 weeks, there will be players who have made it to the dwarf and elf cities and will be selling runes to those locations.

You make it sound as if it matters. Let everyone eles do the dangerous travel for me. When they are selling the rune to the location I desire, it wont matter whos in-between what.

And dont tell me that there wont be players selling runes marked for different locations, because there will be.

[Teth]

Yeah, but with a universal bank, I only get one bank box. With localized banks, I have multiple bank boxes. Thats what I was saying. How is what I said false?

You dont get it, im being sincere. I really mean it, I get it now. Now I know why everyone wants localized banks. Way more storage space with none of the risk. I wont need a house for storage, so nothing to worry about on that front. All I need to do is make it to a town, buy a rune off of someone, mark it myself, keep the rune banked, have a rune back my first bank box, load up my character, then teleport to my new bank and load that up with stuff.
The thing is that, last we heard, it takes a ridiculous amount of time to recall. So sure you could go recall around everywhere and spend 20 - 30 minutes doing it, ooor you could have a local bank and just get what you need on the spot.

However, I'd be fine with NPC town banks being for money-only storage. >:D

The sad thing is that this problem only arises because the devs insisted on keeping recall in...sigh. If they had taken the braver path of "no fast travel, you mongrels!", then that particular issue would be nonexistent, much like it is in EVE.

[Shadow Walker2020]

The thing is that, last we heard, it takes a ridiculous amount of time to recall. I'd be fine with NPC town banks being for money-only storage. >:D

Thats not going to happen because when the game first starts out, players are going to need places to store stuff and there wont be any player established towns up yet.

Also, new players are going to need places to store items as well as solo players too. Not everyone will have access to a clan city with which to store items.

[Shadow Walker2020]

The thing is that, last we heard, it takes a ridiculous amount of time to recall. So sure you could go recall around everywhere and spend 20 - 30 minutes doing it, ooor you could have a local bank and just get what you need on the spot.

However, I'd be fine with NPC town banks being for money-only storage. >:D

The sad thing is that this problem only arises because the devs insisted on keeping recall in...sigh. If they had taken the braver path of "no fast travel, you mongrels!", then that particular issue would be nonexistent, much like it is in EVE.

50 seconds? big deal. Id take 50 seconds of waiting over 2 hours of travel.

EVE is a futuristic game is it not? Dont they have some kind of warp technology, light speed, jump gates or any of that other stuff? If they dont, I find that funny considering its a futuristc game with space travel and no faster than light travel and such travel would be necessisary for planetary colonization. Either that or the planets are ridiculously close to one another.

[Teth]

EVE is a futuristic game is it not? Dont they have some kind of warp technology, light speed, jump gates or any of that other stuff? If they dont, I find that funny considering its a futuristc game with space travel and no faster than light travel and such travel would be necessisary for planetary colonization. Either that or the planets are ridiculously close to one another.
http://www.eve-online.com/background/jump/

Go read that. EVE does a pretty good job of explaining away its various game mechanics through pseudoscience and technobabble.

[Shadow Walker2020]

http://www.eve-online.com/background/jump/

Go read that. EVE does a pretty good job of explaining away its various game mechanics through pseudoscience and technobabble.


Hmm... a player cant even leave their ship to explore a planet. Eve sounds to be a very limiting game. Get a ship and fly around all day? buy a kit and let it get your skills up for you? Where is the challenge?

I bet zergs rule that game's PvP.

Darkfall trumps this game, hands down.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Anyway, like I was saying, I can now see why so many wany localized banks. they give players many places to store items that are 100% safe. since im playing human, ive got alot of places to store things. There are 4 NPC cities in the human lands that cant be taken over. I believe that the devs said that each player will get 5 characters per accounts. So thats already 20 boxes Ill have access to. And thats just with one account. Thats more chests than I had in my house back on UO. If I do place a house, which now has less of a chance of happening, I wont have to store anything in it or risk having it stolen.

With a universal bank box, id have to decide what to store and what to sacrifice. If my bank box was overloaded, Id have to get rid of things to make room for new stuff. Dont have to worry about that with localized banks.

[Teth]

Anyway, like I was saying, I can now see why so many wany localized banks. they give players many places to store items that are 100% safe. since im playing human, ive got alot of places to store things. There are 4 NPC cities in the human lands that cant be taken over. I believe that the devs said that each player will get 5 characters per accounts. So thats already 20 boxes Ill have access to. And thats just with one account. Thats more chests than I had in my house back on UO. If I do place a house, which now has less of a chance of happening, I wont have to store anything in it or risk having it stolen.

With a universal bank box, id have to decide what to store and what to sacrifice. If my bank box was overloaded, Id have to get rid of things to make room for new stuff. Dont have to worry about that with localized banks.
Make NPC banks money-storage-only. :ninja:

[Shadow Walker2020]

Make NPC banks money-storage-only. :ninja:


Cant do that. When the game first starts out and there arent any player run towns to store items in, what are players supposed to do? Walk around with all of their items and spare suits on them?

What are new players, who cant get to a player run town supposed to do?

It gives clans WAY WAY WAY too much power. Thats crossing some serious lines there. Manking banks player controled like that is a very bad move.

this leaves game makers with a choice. Universal banks, where players get one bank box that they can access anywhere there is a friendly bank or localized banks where players get a bank box anywhere there is a friendly bank, but can only access those items from that bank and many 100% safe places to store items.

Then there is always option 3, no banks at all. But the chances of that are slim to null.

[Skiptag]

exactly how hard will it be to establish a player run town? Id like more info on that, is it readable on the main site?

[Shadow Walker2020]

exactly how hard will it be to establish a player run town? Id like more info on that, is it readable on the main site?


Lets see. First off, your clan has to FIND a clan stone. Then they have to amass enough gold and resources to build a keep to protect the stone, build buildings for your clan to store resources, armor, and weapons. Build banks. Hire guards to protect the city and keep them paid. Build walls. Build NPC shops. and defend the city against attack.

[Scottc1988]

Due to the full loot policy, items and money everywhere would probably be a lot nicer.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Due to the full loot policy, items and money everywhere would probably be a lot nicer.

Could you clairify?

[Irodim]

This is one of those times where we compare registration dates, then I pat you on the head for your well-intentioned but ultimately meaningless suggestion and tell you to run along now, child - I know what I'm doing. :D

Registration dates are the lamest excuse for knowing what you're doing. Look at Shadow for second he has been around for two years and take a look at what he has argued about. Look at his arguements now!

I have read much of the FAQ and Archives and a lot about the game, or at least what we have been led to believe.


And Shadow how long did it take you to change your stance on the Houses several months? So how long should we expect you to realize that you finally see how universal items takes away from the game play. How do you not see that Local item banks encourages people to make caravans to transport their goods between cities? This opens up the chance for them to be attacked by a rival clan/guild or create a fued between two once peaceful clans.

I don't know if you still want to be a "lone wolf" in this game, but the type of game that DarkFall is going for a play style like that will make the game difficult because you won't have anyone to back you up. Unless you are with a pick up group, but groups like that tend to suck more than help.

[Skiptag]

Being a lone wolf can be rewarding if you manage to raid an entire caravan full of expensive stuff, plus its a kickass reason to roleplay

[Shadow Walker2020]

Registration dates are the lamest excuse for knowing what you're doing. Look at Shadow for second he has been around for two years and take a look at what he has argued about. Look at his arguements now!

I have read much of the FAQ and Archives and a lot about the game, or at least what we have been led to believe.


And Shadow how long did it take you to change your stance on the Houses several months? So how long should we expect you to realize that you finally see how universal items takes away from the game play. How do you not see that Local item banks encourages people to make caravans to transport their goods between cities? This opens up the chance for them to be attacked by a rival clan/guild or create a fued between two once peaceful clans.

I don't know if you still want to be a "lone wolf" in this game, but the type of game that DarkFall is going for a play style like that will make the game difficult because you won't have anyone to back you up. Unless you are with a pick up group, but groups like that tend to suck more than help.

Oh yes. localized banks are fantastic! Multiple 100% safe places to store items is great. With the 4 NPC cities in the human kingdom alone, multiply that by the 5 characters player are getting per account, thats 20 bank boxes ill have access to. Ill never have to place a house. Oh, and how could I forget multiple accounts too. Im planning on having about 3 accounts. So I can take that 20 bank boxes id get from just having 1 account times that by three, holy crap, id get 60 bank boxes! Wow!

But wait, theres more, since im going human with all of my accounts, I can factor in all of the banks in the NPC cities of my allies too. So ive already got access to 60 bank boxes in the human kingdom with my three accounts. Now, we add in 60 from the elf kingdom and 60 from the dwarf kingdom. Hmmm 60x3=180! Goddamn! 180 bank boxes! Unbelieveable! And for those nay sayers who claim that distance is a bother, I say to you friends, dont walk down the path of blindess that I once did, no sir. You must see the light! That Light is, wait till other players get to the NPC cities of the other races you are aligned with, then buy the runes off of those people!

Then, to get around, all I would need to do is get a hold of some runes and teach my characters all the teleporation spell, warp from town to town, greatly reducing my travel time and granting me access to every single one of my 180 bank boxes that I will have availible to me.

And if I did place a house, Id never have to risk storing anything in it. so if someone did take out my house, I wouldnt lose anything of value!

It is the perfect expliot! Praise the Locaized bank! Praise it I say, you hethens!

[Irodim]

Shadow you obviously don't remember them saying that if teleportation was included in the game it would be very expensive. The reagents to recall or anything of the sort would have to be carried by the player which means if killed can be looted so you wouldn't be carrying a stack of 100. And you are doing THE EXACT same thing you did in our arguement in the TPV. You take what I said and some how manipulate it so it benifits you.

Having multiple characters and multiple accounts in a UNVIERSAL ITEM bank would be more of an exploit because there is no need to transfer items via caravans. You would throw all the items onto your different characters. And then have safe transportation between towns.

Teth you were saying something about registration dates = knowing what they are doing. I have no doubt that you DO know what you are doing but I just don't like that excuse of "Old user means I am smart". But shadow is just a prime example of why I ignore reg. dates.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Shadow you obviously don't remember them saying that if teleportation was included in the game it would be very expensive. The reagents to recall or anything of the sort would have to be carried by the player which means if killed can be looted so you wouldn't be carrying a stack of 100. And you are doing THE EXACT same thing you did in our arguement in the TPV. You take what I said and some how manipulate it so it benifits you.

Look at the pot calling the kettle black. Yes, it would be expensive, but not impossible. I would just have to make sure Ive got plenty of money, now wouldnt I?

As for getting killed and having my recall regs looted, id only lose them if I kept them on me all the time. If I only used the regs when I was in town teleporting to another, the chances of that happening greatly decrease.

Having multiple characters and multiple accounts in a UNVIERSAL ITEM bank would be more of an exploit because there is no need to transfer items via caravans. You would throw all the items onto your different characters. And then have safe transportation between towns.

And how am I supposed to transfer my items over to my other characters? Drop them on the ground and pick them up with my other characters? wont work, someone would come along and take it. Ive only got one computer. You have to be maning a character to accept items.

This thing would happen with localized banks anyway, but would be more rampant as I would have many many many places to store stuff. All I would need to do is transport everything in small intervals. It would take forever, but eventually, I would get it done. but im a solo player, so ive got nothing but time on my hands.

It all boild down to which is the lesser of the two evils. Localized banks with multiple 100% secure storage or universal banks that can be accessed anywhere by only provide one bank box period. Both can be exploited. But which is worse? Which one impacts game mechanics the worst? Which one eliminates risk the most?

One secure container or multiple secure containers?

Can be accessed anywhere or cant be accessed anywhere?

Either road has its problems.

Teth you were saying something about registration dates = knowing what they are doing. I have no doubt that you DO know what you are doing but I just don't like that excuse of "Old user means I am smart". But shadow is just a prime example of why I ignore reg. dates.

So says the jelous noob.

And your prime example of why no one listens to 06 join dates.

[Irodim]

Lets make a list shall we?

You do not want to have local item banks because it will take to long to access them all yet you bring up an arguement that it will be easy to access them all via teleportation.

You do not want to have local banks because you will not know where any of your items are located. Teth has stated that a window can pop up listing each of your items and what bank they are located in and as stated above you can teleport there and get the item.

You say that Local banks can be exploited because you can have to many safe locations. Well unless you magically have every item in the correct location at the correct time (which happens with universal item banks) then you will have to transport them there.

You say local banks gets rid of the need for houses. I am assuming you are playing a solo character because of what you have said in previous threads. Houses can be place in many different locations across the map which can bring you easier access to your items at a cost. They are open to being stolen. Luxery comes at a price. Also clans/guilds who have cities will have houses for the members inside which if their bank gets filled they can place it inside their house which is safe. There is no need to place their houses out side the safety of the city walls.

Please tell me anypoints that I have missed.

Knowledge > Registration Date. I am sure many would agree. People assume since I registered in '06 that I don't know shit but I have given solid advice on many different occasions and I am active on these forums.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Lets make a list shall we?

You do not want to have local item banks because it will take to long to access them all yet you bring up an arguement that it will be easy to access them all via teleportation.

Yeah because I changed my mind about them.

You do not want to have local banks because you will not know where any of your items are located. Teth has stated that a window can pop up listing each of your items and what bank they are located in and as stated above you can teleport there and get the item.

Again, I changed my stance on localized banks, hello?

You say that Local banks can be exploited because you can have to many safe locations. Well unless you magically have every item in the correct location at the correct time (which happens with universal item banks) then you will have to transport them there.

Damn your dumb. How many time do I have to tell you, I changed my stance on the localized banks.

You say local banks gets rid of the need for houses. I am assuming you are playing a solo character because of what you have said in previous threads. Houses can be place in many different locations across the map which can bring you easier access to your items at a cost. They are open to being stolen. Luxery comes at a price. Also clans/guilds who have cities will have houses for the members inside which if their bank gets filled they can place it inside their house which is safe. There is no need to place their houses out side the safety of the city walls.

sure clans can still be suckers and place houses and store stuff in them, if they want to risk losing them. If they are smart, they will get themselves some runes to friendly NPC towns, unless they are alfar, then they only get to use their races NPC towns, and will store stuff there with their alternate characters.

Please tell me anypoints that I have missed.

Yeah, you missed a really big one. I changed my opinion about localized banks. Im all for them. If you really were smart, you would have read this post: http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showpost.php?p=532940&postcount=96 I also said it could be exploited. But then again, I did say that universal banks could be exploited too.

I refer you to this post, Here. (http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showpost.php?p=533158&postcount=114)

Knowledge > Registration Date. I am sure many would agree. People assume since I registered in '06 that I don't know shit but I have given solid advice on many different occasions and I am active on these forums.

After reading what you posted above, I can honestly say, Knowlege does not equal Irodim.

[Irodim]

Are you still being sarcastic? Because your two post prior to this one both sounded like you were against the idea.


Oh yes. localized banks are fantastic! Multiple 100% safe places to store items is great. With the 4 NPC cities in the human kingdom alone, multiply that by the 5 characters player are getting per account, thats 20 bank boxes ill have access to. Ill never have to place a house. Oh, and how could I forget multiple accounts too. Im planning on having about 3 accounts. So I can take that 20 bank boxes id get from just having 1 account times that by three, holy crap, id get 60 bank boxes! Wow!

But wait, theres more, since im going human with all of my accounts, I can factor in all of the banks in the NPC cities of my allies too. So ive already got access to 60 bank boxes in the human kingdom with my three accounts. Now, we add in 60 from the elf kingdom and 60 from the dwarf kingdom. Hmmm 60x3=180! Goddamn! 180 bank boxes! Unbelieveable! And for those nay sayers who claim that distance is a bother, I say to you friends, dont walk down the path of blindess that I once did, no sir. You must see the light! That Light is, wait till other players get to the NPC cities of the other races you are aligned with, then buy the runes off of those people!

Then, to get around, all I would need to do is get a hold of some runes and teach my characters all the teleporation spell, warp from town to town, greatly reducing my travel time and granting me access to every single one of my 180 bank boxes that I will have availible to me.

And if I did place a house, Id never have to risk storing anything in it. so if someone did take out my house, I wouldnt lose anything of value!

It is the perfect expliot! Praise the Locaized bank! Praise it I say, you hethens!

That really sounds like you want local banks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Irodim
Shadow you obviously don't remember them saying that if teleportation was included in the game it would be very expensive. The reagents to recall or anything of the sort would have to be carried by the player which means if killed can be looted so you wouldn't be carrying a stack of 100. And you are doing THE EXACT same thing you did in our arguement in the TPV. You take what I said and some how manipulate it so it benifits you.


Look at the pot calling the kettle black. Yes, it would be expensive, but not impossible. I would just have to make sure Ive got plenty of money, now wouldnt I?

As for getting killed and having my recall regs looted, id only lose them if I kept them on me all the time. If I only used the regs when I was in town teleporting to another, the chances of that happening greatly decrease.


Quote:
Having multiple characters and multiple accounts in a UNVIERSAL ITEM bank would be more of an exploit because there is no need to transfer items via caravans. You would throw all the items onto your different characters. And then have safe transportation between towns.


And how am I supposed to transfer my items over to my other characters? Drop them on the ground and pick them up with my other characters? wont work, someone would come along and take it. Ive only got one computer. You have to be maning a character to accept items.

This thing would happen with localized banks anyway, but would be more rampant as I would have many many many places to store stuff. All I would need to do is transport everything in small intervals. It would take forever, but eventually, I would get it done. but im a solo player, so ive got nothing but time on my hands.

It all boild down to which is the lesser of the two evils. Localized banks with multiple 100% secure storage or universal banks that can be accessed anywhere by only provide one bank box period. Both can be exploited. But which is worse? Which one impacts game mechanics the worst? Which one eliminates risk the most?

One secure container or multiple secure containers?

Can be accessed anywhere or cant be accessed anywhere?

Either road has its problems.


Quote:
Teth you were saying something about registration dates = knowing what they are doing. I have no doubt that you DO know what you are doing but I just don't like that excuse of "Old user means I am smart". But shadow is just a prime example of why I ignore reg. dates.


So says the jelous noob.

And your prime example of why no one listens to 06 join dates.

Uh, where in there did you say you changed your mind?

[Shadow Walker2020]

Are you still being sarcastic? Because your two post prior to this one both sounded like you were against the idea.

Well thats what sucks about the internet, it cant distingush between sarcasm, honesty or enthusiasm.



That really sounds like you want local banks.

What? Cant I ever show enthusiasm about something?


Uh, where in there did you say you changed your mind?

It says it, HERE! DUN DUN DUN DUN!!! (http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showpost.php?p=532919&postcount=93)

[Irodim]

It says it, HERE! DUN DUN DUN DUN!!! (http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showpost.php?p=532919&postcount=93)

Well again with the sarcasm but when you agree to a point you don't normally give the reason because there are a lot of exploits.

"You know what teth, I owe you some thanks. youve just help me discover the exploit that has solved alot of my problems. Thanks."

[Shadow Walker2020]

Well again with the sarcasm but when you agree to a point you don't normally give the reason because there are a lot of exploits.

"You know what teth, I owe you some thanks. youve just help me discover the exploit that has solved alot of my problems. Thanks."


And heres the biggest flaw in what you just said, normally. These arent normal conditions.


You dont know how I think. For all you know, that really is the reason why I want to have localized banks. It gives me an advantage. If someone says to me in game that they are going to destory my house and take my stuff, I can laugh at them because all of my stuff his stashed in my bank boxes and is untouchable. Thats why I want the localized banks. Did you ever stop to consider that?

Sarcasm? No, im just having some fun. What? Im not allowed to have fun?


But heres the real kicker. Answer me this, Irodim. If localized banks are implimented, can you honestly say that you wont do what I have described? Can you say that you wont take advantage of every single bank box that will be availble to you in every single NPC town that your race is welcom in? That you wont get runes to all of the towns you have items stored in?

Can you say that you will not do as I do should localized banks be implimented?

[Irodim]

And heres the biggest flaw in what you just said, normally. These arent normal conditions.

You dont know how I think. For all you know, that really is the reason why I want to have localized banks. It gives me an advantage. If someone says to me in game that they are going to destory my house and take my stuff, I can laugh at them because all of my stuff his stashed in my bank boxes and is untouchable. Thats why I want the localized banks. Did you ever stop to consider that?

Off topic but why would you want a house if you didn't put stuff inside? Just a way to burn money?

Seriously, so what you are trying to tell me is that the "exploit" that teth showed you was you can buy a house and have it destroyed with out worrying about losing items only the money spent on the house?

Do you have Alzheimers? Because I gave a valid reason why a solo person would want to use a house to store items which you never discredited or gave any reason why it didn't work so that couldn't be the "exploit" you were refering to. So please tell me what "exploit" are you talking about.

And please tell me that your response of "I have changed my stance" three times in the same post is a good reason because that would just be hilarious. To me, you saying it three times in the same post shows me that you could not think of a counter arguement so you decided to try and make me look like I don't understand sarcasm. Which by the way, you later said is hard to understand on forums so why do it? You are just a mind of hippocritical statements.

[Teth]

Irodim, the crack about registry dates was more me implying "I know what I'm getting into here" than me saying "lol, stfu newb, you know NAHHHTING". Sorry if you interpreted it the wrong way. :ninja:

[Irodim]

Irodim, the crack about registry dates was more me implying "I know what I'm getting into here" than me saying "lol, stfu newb, you know NAHHHTING". Sorry if you interpreted it the wrong way. :ninja:

I didn't think you ment it in a negative way (wasn't too sure though) but I was planning on droping the Reg. date issue after my first post. Then ShadowWalker decided to start using it so I was mainly aiming the comments at him.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Off topic but why would you want a house if you didn't put stuff inside? Just a way to burn money?

Yep, thats exactly right. If I built a house, it would be because I was bored and felt like it and did have the money to burn. Dont like that? TS, lad, TS.

Seriously, so what you are trying to tell me is that the "exploit" that teth showed you was you can buy a house and have it destroyed with out worrying about losing items only the money spent on the house?

Nope thats not the exploit. Thats just a side effect. The main exploit is, multiple 100% secure no risk storage containers.

Do you have Alzheimers? Because I gave a valid reason why a solo person would want to use a house to store items which you never discredited or gave any reason why it didn't work so that couldn't be the "exploit" you were refering to. So please tell me what "exploit" are you talking about.

And what reason was that? Because its expensive? Because recalling takes time? So what? Those who have the gold will do it. Those who dont will be SOL. Those who have the time will do it. Those who dont, well, I dont believe I need to finish, you get the drift.

And please tell me that your response of "I have changed my stance" three times in the same post is a good reason because that would just be hilarious. To me, you saying it three times in the same post shows me that you could not think of a counter arguement so you decided to try and make me look like I don't understand sarcasm. Which by the way, you later said is hard to understand on forums so why do it? You are just a mind of hippocritical statements.

Its pretty obvious that you dont understand the concept of being blatently honest. The fact that I can use the localized banks to my advantage is the reason why I want them, little boy. Hippocritical? No, its how I think. You dont like it, well, thats your problem. If you cant understand it, then you must not be that good of a gamer. In every game I play, I find ways to get one over on other players. The same goes for many many many other players. Its called survival, my boy. Evolve or die.

[Irodim]

And what reason was that? Because its expensive? Because recalling takes time? So what? Those who have the gold will do it. Those who dont will be SOL. Those who have the time will do it. Those who dont, well, I dont believe I need to finish, you get the drift.

No because It gives you a location to restock you equipment at a location of your choice.

You do not read the other person arguements, nor do you care. You change your words with every other post it is crazy.

[Shadow Walker2020]

No because It gives you a location to restock you equipment at a location of your choice.

Really? You can do the same thing with universal banks too. Thats why your reason wanst good enough.

You do not read the other person arguements, nor do you care.

Wow, you actually get it. Braaaavooo. *claps unenthusiastically* (Now thats sarcasm!)

You change your words with every other post it is crazy.

No, I believe that I changed my stance once, as is exampled here (http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showpost.php?p=532919&postcount=93) then stuck with my original reason for wanting localized banks.

Like I said, its blatent honesty.

[Azash_AT]

Actually assuming that localized banking will give you multiple bank boxes is most likley a mistaken assumption. It is a simple mechanic to implement to have a player designate a specfic bank as there primary bank and thus allowing them to only access there storage box at that bank.

This scenario is more likley to happen then allowing 10,000 players to have from 4-10 bank boxes. This would make the server store 40k-100k different item intentories on top of the individual back packs of the players themeslves. This seems to me to be a bit intensive on the servers with very little bennefit.

Im not saying it wont happen as you all are predicting I am saying its just as likely to be 1 box per character with local storage as it is multiple boxes per character with local storage.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Actually assuming that localized banking will give you multiple bank boxes is most likley a mistaken assumption. It is a simple mechanic to implement to have a player designate a specfic bank as there primary bank and thus allowing them to only access there storage box at that bank.

I dont think thats going to work too well. It kinda restricts players to one local area. Goes against the whole freedom aspect of the game.

This scenario is more likley to happen then allowing 10,000 players to have from 4-10 bank boxes. This would make the server store 40k-100k different item intentories on top of the individual back packs of the players themeslves. This seems to me to be a bit intensive on the servers with very little bennefit.

The bennefit is that players will still be able to travel and store things int different towns so they arent resrticited to one area becuase thats the only place they can get to their bank.

Im not saying it wont happen as you all are predicting I am saying its just as likely to be 1 box per character with local storage as it is multiple boxes per character with local storage.

Like what I said before, wont go over too well. It really hinders travel and exploration. one box local storage would really hurt the game.

[Azash_AT]

Im not talking about aspects of the game. What I am talking about is server resouces and how much of a pull that will be on those resouces and would the developers consider that a valuable exchange. EVERYTHING takes a back seat to the hardware and connection. Without those there litteraly is no game. However like I said may or may not be the case but its something to consider. Also DFO is not a global hopping game.

One thing to keep in mind though. This is not WoW where you catch the next Griffon out of town and travel across continets or UO where you warp around the world and lap the world six times a day or can sail from pole to pole in 30 or so minutes. So localizing factors might not be seen as that big of a draw back since the rest of the game (size of the world, racial factions, etc) are localizing factors.

[Horix]

Both for me, i dont think it spoils immersion its just convinient.

[alfaroverall]

One thing to keep in mind though. This is not WoW where you catch the next Griffon out of town and travel across continets or UO where you warp around the world and lap the world six times a day or can sail from pole to pole in 30 or so minutes. So localizing factors might not be seen as that big of a draw back since the rest of the game (size of the world, racial factions, etc) are localizing factors.
As I said a few days ago, we've been told that Agon's going to be huge, and with minimal teleportation. 12 hour travel time (again, is this walking or riding) isn't something I plan on doing everyday. You could spend months working in the same general area before you decided to change areas. And when it came time to change areas, you go to your bank, pull the stuff out, (if they limit you to one bank box) close it, find a friend and start the walk.

[Irodim]

As I said a few days ago, we've been told that Agon's going to be huge, and with minimal teleportation. 12 hour travel time (again, is this walking or riding) isn't something I plan on doing everyday. You could spend months working in the same general area before you decided to change areas. And when it came time to change areas, you go to your bank, pull the stuff out, (if they limit you to one bank box) close it, find a friend and start the walk.

Thats why you have Universal money. So when you go to a new area you either have enough currency in your bank which can be transported to the new bank and buy new armor there. Or you carry the armor there and risk being looted. This keeps crafters in business because When people travel by their clan's city they might want to use it as spot to restock if they are by an area they are training their skill in.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Im not talking about aspects of the game. What I am talking about is server resouces and how much of a pull that will be on those resouces and would the developers consider that a valuable exchange. EVERYTHING takes a back seat to the hardware and connection. Without those there litteraly is no game. However like I said may or may not be the case but its something to consider. Also DFO is not a global hopping game.

One thing to keep in mind though. This is not WoW where you catch the next Griffon out of town and travel across continets or UO where you warp around the world and lap the world six times a day or can sail from pole to pole in 30 or so minutes. So localizing factors might not be seen as that big of a draw back since the rest of the game (size of the world, racial factions, etc) are localizing factors.

The racial factions and world size arent locaizing factors. If anything, they give players more reasons to travel, to explore and see the world. In order to gain alignment with ones race, it is required that you go and kill members of enemy races. You cant do that if you do travel and seek out these enemies. To locate new dungeons and acquire rare items, resources and skills, one must travel to new lands. These are all reasons why having multiple bank boxes is a must.

With limiting players to one bank box in one city, that becomes the major localized factor, discouraging players from traveling and exploring, and putting a hamper on the goals of us who plan on playing adventurers and explorers.

[Azash_AT]

The racial factions and world size arent locaizing factors. If anything, they give players more reasons to travel, to explore and see the world. In order to gain alignment with ones race, it is required that you go and kill members of enemy races. You cant do that if you do travel and seek out these enemies. To locate new dungeons and acquire rare items, resources and skills, one must travel to new lands. These are all reasons why having multiple bank boxes is a must.

With limiting players to one bank box in one city, that becomes the major localized factor, discouraging players from traveling and exploring, and putting a hamper on the goals of us who plan on playing adventurers and explorers.

I dont think you get the term localized. One can change locals but that still means your are localized. Let me reiterate DFO is not a global traveling game your not going to be hopping from one subcontinent to the other or visting buddies on the west coast and then returning to redecorate the house on the east coast.....

Yes people will travel and explore and go to war. However they will most likely unless they are masochists get to a city (player or npc) and set up a base to live out of and explore that region in. Thus they would have just changed locals but are still localized.

You see what im getting at when I mean most factors in this game are localizing?

[Shadow Walker2020]

I dont think you get the term localized. One can change locals but that still means your are localized. Let me reiterate DFO is not a global traveling game your not going to be hopping from one subcontinent to the other or visting buddies on the west coast and then returning to redecorate the house on the east coast.....

Acutally, there will be platyers doing exactly that. Once they have runes marked for locations of friends and cities, globe hopping will be a common thing.

Also, DFO is a game that is about continent hoping and exploration, should that be the players play style.

Yes people will travel and explore and go to war. However they will most likely unless they are masochists get to a city (player or npc) and set up a base to live out of and explore that region in. Thus they would have just changed locals but are still localized.

Your contradicting yourself.

You see what im getting at when I mean most factors in this game are localizing?

No, I really dont. Your explination is as clear as mud.

Localized, in my book atleast, means that something is in one set place all the time. It doesnt move.

The only way the factors of this game could "Localize" a player, is if that player is too much of a coward to go out and adventure and stays in one place.

[Irodim]

Acutally, there will be platyers doing exactly that. Once they have runes marked for locations of friends and cities, globe hopping will be a common thing.

Also, DFO is a game that is about continent hoping and exploration, should that be the players play style.


Unless I misunderstood what you mean by globe hoping by using marked runes, globe hopping by teleportation will not be used often because the dev's have stated that the reagents will cost a lot. Traveling by foot, mount, and by ship will be the common form of getting around.

[Raistlin_Majare]

"Other, explain"

Where you deposit it, there you'll find it.

[Irodim]

"Other, explain"

Where you deposit it, there you'll find it.

That would be local banks not other.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Unless I misunderstood what you mean by globe hoping by using marked runes, globe hopping by teleportation will not be used often because the dev's have stated that the reagents will cost a lot. Traveling by foot, mount, and by ship will be the common form of getting around.


Wow, you really think price of regs will stop people and make teleporting a rare thing? I wish I could share your naieve view of things. Unfortunately, I know the truth of how things work. People find ways around things. Its only a matter of time.

I give it about a month, month and a half before runes to every city are floating around and tons of the regs are floating around from players who buy them in bulk from the NPCs.

[Irodim]

Wow, you really think price of regs will stop people and make teleporting a rare thing? I wish I could share your naieve view of things. Unfortunately, I know the truth of how things work. People find ways around things. Its only a matter of time.

I give it about a month, month and a half before runes to every city are floating around and tons of the regs are floating around from players who buy them in bulk from the NPCs.

If that's true then transporting goods between cities won't be a problem. It will take a lot away from the game if they allow for easy access teleportation.

[Shadow Walker2020]

If that's true then transporting goods between cities won't be a problem. It will take a lot away from the game if they allow for easy access teleportation.


Not really. I mean, your characters do have a weight limit. they can only carry so much. I mean your character cant carry 10,000 ingots or 500 swords or 800 plate mail breast plates.

And since things like seige engines will have to be transported on foot or by boat, caravans and merchant ships will still be needed. Did you forget about things like those? The convenience of your memory astounds me.

[Irodim]

Not really. I mean, your characters do have a weight limit. they can only carry so much. I mean your character cant carry 10,000 ingots or 500 swords or 800 plate mail breast plates.

And since things like seige engines will have to be transported on foot or by boat, caravans and merchant ships will still be needed. Did you forget about things like those? The convenience of your memory astounds me.

Apparently anyone who disagree's with you is inferior and incompetent.

Say I am in a town and someone wants to buy a few weapons in bulk. Well I don't the correct materials for all the weapons in that town but I do in another. I teleport over there and teleport back and make it. First that takes away the threat of transporting the materials between cities. Second, depending on the costs of materials, it will take away from people who are trying to sell materials, because instead of running to them to buy the correct amount I just teleported to the city where I had them.

When you are transporting a seige engine I will guarentee you that there will be other guild/clan members helping you to protect it and move it. What if I am alone and I need to grab ingrediants for a potion in a different city, teleport.

As you said a single character cannot carry an unnatural amout of items. Why take a cheaper path thats dangerous when I could just spend a little amount of my money and take 100% safe route and teleport? If I have a lot of items to transport I will get my clan/guild mates to help me. Unlike you (who I will assume be playing solo due to your previous posts) I will not run into a problem with finding people that I trust to me transport some items to a different city/town.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Apparently anyone who disagree's with you is inferior and incompetent.

I dont ever remember saying that. Your the one who is assuming that.

I said you have a convenient memory, as in youll only recall things that currently suit your needs and disregard everything eles. I never said that you were inferior or incompetant.

You really shouldnt put yourself down like that, its bad for your self confidence.

Say I am in a town and someone wants to buy a few weapons in bulk. Well I don't the correct materials for all the weapons in that town but I do in another. I teleport over there and teleport back and make it. First that takes away the threat of transporting the materials between cities. Second, depending on the costs of materials, it will take away from people who are trying to sell materials, because instead of running to them to buy the correct amount I just teleported to the city where I had them.

Uh huh, and that city your teleporting to, you know the one that you have the matierals in, where did you get those materials? Did they just come with the bank box? I doubt that. In order to have resources/materials in that city, the one where the materials are, your going to have had to stock that bank box some how. Now, either you gathered them yourself, thus still taking away from those who sell the aformentioned materials. Or, you bought those materials from someone who sells the materials that you have stocked in the city you are teleporting to. So please explain to me how that is taking away from those who sell resources Aka matierals.

As for the threat of treansporting the materials for that ONE item that the person asked you to craft, this is where monotiny comes into play. You mean to tell me that someone should risk life and limb to get to another city just to get the resources needed to make one goddam item? Theres only one word for that, insanity.

Also, that person, who asked you to make them the item in question, they arent going to wait forever for you to make them what they want. Keep them wating too long, they will ditch you and go ask someone eles to make them what they want.

When you are transporting a seige engine I will guarentee you that there will be other guild/clan members helping you to protect it and move it. What if I am alone and I need to grab ingrediants for a potion in a different city, teleport.

Yeah, I believe there is a word for that. Oh, hmmm... now whay was it? Mmmmm, a group of people transporting something? What was that word....... wait, I got it. Its called a CARAVAN!!!!

And you have the guts to say that teleportation hurts caravans.

And im also sure that your group will be in danger when they are transporting that seige engine. Theres a word for that too. I believe its called RISK!!! Yes, you and your buddies will be RISKING!!!! that seige engine. Any band of marauders would love to get their hands on a score like a seige engine. And while you and your buddies are transporting that seige engine, you clan may also need some swords. why not throw some swords onto a pack animal and bring it with, since your heading there anyway.

Now, as for just getting something to make one thing, I blieve I covered that earier in this post. Transporting to get some ingridents, yeah, thats logic. And thats what most players will be doing.

As you said a single character cannot carry an unnatural amout of items. Why take a cheaper path thats dangerous when I could just spend a little amount of my money and take 100% safe route and teleport? If I have a lot of items to transport I will get my clan/guild mates to help me. Unlike you (who I will assume be playing solo due to your previous posts) I will not run into a problem with finding people that I trust to me transport some items to a different city/town.

There are many reasons why not. Not all the people who agree to help you will be honest. In all likely hood, they will take the items from you and leave you eating crow. DFO is agoing to be a dog eat dog game, even your clan mates can betray you.

The place you are taking these items to may not have enough room to hold everything.

The people helping you might not have a rune to the location you are trying to get to. Remember, the devs said that in oder to use the rune, it must be in your back pack.

The place you are trying to get to might not allow players to recall in and out of the town. I believe the devs said that clans will be able to control if others can teleport into and out of their town. So to get the items from the nearest NPC town to your clans city, your going to have to transport it with your friends to the town by foot. Ugh, I could swear theres a word for a group of people who are transporting something somewhere, I seem to have forgoten it again. argh, what was it. *looks back in post*. Oh, here it is, CARAVAN!!!

And, before I forget, CARAVANS!!!! will be needed by clans who are attacking another clans city. They will need to ultilize CARAVANS!!!! to transport items and seige engines to their troops at the front lines. Marauders and theives will be able to attack these CARAVANS!!!! while they are enroute to their destination.

[Irodim]

There is no way to have a civilized arguement with you is there? Show some maturity in your posts and these arguements can be fun.

[Shadow Walker2020]

There is no way to have a civilized arguement with you is there? Show some maturity in your posts and these arguements can be fun.

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

I think this is fun. Im having a blast.

Just admit it, I got you.

Teleporting doesnt hurt anything. You can have a bank box stocked to the gils with resources. But how did you fill that bank box? You either A.) Harvested all the resources yourself or B.) bought them all in bulk from someone who sells them.

Magical transportation doesnt hurt the need for caravans because clans will need to transport supplies for seiges. Cant do it with magic, so they have to do it with caravans. Theives and marauders can still attack those caravans.

Since there are clan towns that wont allow players to mark runes inside the city nor allow players to teleport inside the city, caravans will be needed to bring supplied to the city. If clans dont block people from teleporting in, they leave themselves open for attack.

the devs have already thought of all of this. Thats why they are allowing for magical teleportion. Because it wont make a difference.

Oh, and before I forget.........CARAVANS!!!!!

[Bachofner]

Money and items global cuz making them local adds nothing to the game but wasting my time

[Irodim]

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

I think this is fun. Im having a blast.

Just admit it, I got you.

Teleporting doesnt hurt anything. You can have a bank box stocked to the gils with resources. But how did you fill that bank box? You either A.) Harvested all the resources yourself or B.) bought them all in bulk from someone who sells them.

Magical transportation doesnt hurt the need for caravans because clans will need to transport supplies for seiges. Cant do it with magic, so they have to do it with caravans. Theives and marauders can still attack those caravans.

Since there are clan towns that wont allow players to mark runes inside the city nor allow players to teleport inside the city, caravans will be needed to bring supplied to the city. If clans dont block people from teleporting in, they leave themselves open for attack.

the devs have already thought of all of this. Thats why they are allowing for magical teleportion. Because it wont make a difference.

Oh, and before I forget.........CARAVANS!!!!!
Your didn't prove anything other than my statement about your maturity was correct.

[Shadow Walker2020]

Your didn't prove anything other than my statement about your maturity was correct.

:lmao: :lmao:

oh this is too funny.

Unfortunately, my maturity isnt whats being debated here. What IS being debated, even though its off topic, is magical teleportation in game. The fact that you have to resort to insulting my maturity means to me that you cant mount an effective counter attack, there fore you are defeated.

However your not just pissed about being beaten, but, you more pissed about the fact that you were beaten by me. The guy allegidly have sooo much experience against.

But, if this isnt the case, then prove me wrong.

..................... :D :lmao: CARAVANS!!!!!!! :lmao: :D

And may I add.........:lmao:

[Lone Swordsman]

Items and money local, because this is a medieval game/fantasy not some modern day game where i can have my funds liquidated and transfered all around the world *:ninja: activates imho protection*

[longclaw]

Universal race banking

[MoerTa]

I really think that both items and money should be universal. I don't like the EVE system. Due to a damn waste of time traveling to get your stuff. It's all about realism vs fun, Having to travel the across the world risking to lose it all the time isn't fun.

Miners and such are going to get a very hard to getting there items to the market, as did the farmers back in the middle, and did they have a great time? I think not, and I'm not playing games because i want to know how a farmer back then had it, I do it because i want to have a good time.

Having just money doesn't make sense at all, well, it does in our world, but if we didn't have computers or checks and stuff, it wouldn't work at all, and they have got neither in DF!

Stuff and money or neither. But I'd actually consider and other game if the bank system turns out bad.

[Senti]

Think about it this way- if you have universal banks, then there would be no danger while traveling. You harvest uberrare ore from a mine, then place it in your bank. You then walk across the entire continent butt-naked, and sell the uberrare ore for ridiculous prices.

I voted for Universal money, Local items
There's no reason why money shouldn't be universal if you go the same BRANCH of a bank. If you put money in Bank of America, you shouldn't be able to take it out in Bank of Mexico. It doesn't really make that much sense. Have credit at the bank- Items that are attached to your character, and that you can redeem for money from the bank.

[alfaroverall]

I really think that both items and money should be universal. I don't like the EVE system. Due to a damn waste of time traveling to get your stuff. It's all about realism vs fun, Having to travel the across the world risking to lose it all the time isn't fun.

Miners and such are going to get a very hard to getting there items to the market, as did the farmers back in the middle, and did they have a great time? I think not, and I'm not playing games because i want to know how a farmer back then had it, I do it because i want to have a good time.

Having just money doesn't make sense at all, well, it does in our world, but if we didn't have computers or checks and stuff, it wouldn't work at all, and they have got neither in DF!

Stuff and money or neither. But I'd actually consider and other game if the bank system turns out bad.
Have you read the thread, or any of the other universal banking threads, and noted all the issues of people running buttnaked from point A to point B? Logistics in transporting larger quantities of essential goods, for such things as sieges? The fact that the devs want there to be caravans, as indicated explicitly by an RPGvault update?

Think before you post.
Think about it this way- if you have universal banks, then there would be no danger while traveling. You harvest uberrare ore from a mine, then place it in your bank. You then walk across the entire continent butt-naked, and sell the uberrare ore for ridiculous prices.

I voted for Universal money, Local items
And a similar problem doesn't exist if you sell all your stuff, put the money in the bank, run buttnaked somewhere, and then buy new stuff when you get where you're going? You can do this in EVE, I know, I've done it.

[Senti]

And a similar problem doesn't exist if you sell all your stuff, put the money in the bank, run buttnaked somewhere, and then buy it when you get where you're going?

That's correct- The prices of items change based on location, due to geographical stuff. If you're on a plain, I believe that ore may be more expensive than if you're in the mountains due to traveling costs, and risk.

Risk vs. Reward... Travel somewhere that ore is uncommon, then the ore becomes more expensive.
Say you sell the ore in the mountains for 5gold.
You go the the plains, now the ore is 10gold.

Theoretical example of course.

[alfaroverall]

That's correct- The prices of items change based on location, due to geographical stuff. If you're on a plain, I believe that ore may be more expensive than if you're in the mountains due to traveling costs, and risk.

Risk vs. Reward... Travel somewhere that ore is uncommon, then the ore becomes more expensive.
Did you even read my post, or do I just write so terribly that no one has any idea what the hell I'm saying?

[Senti]

Did you even read my post, or do I just write so terribly that no one has any idea what the hell I'm saying?

I believe it may be the latter.

I interpreted what you said as "Sell uberrare ore A at Mountains. Go to plains. Buy uberrare ore A at plains."

Assumably, the ore would be more expensive at the plains, so...

Or do you mean, sell all your equipment? Well, equipment would vary in price based on location as well. It takes materials to craft equipment.

[alfaroverall]

I believe it may be the latter.

I interpreted what you said as "Sell uberrare ore A at Mountains. Go to plains. Buy uberrare ore A at plains."

Assumably, the ore would be more expensive at the plains, so...

Or do you mean, sell all your equipment? Well, equipment would vary in price based on location as well. It takes materials to craft equipment.
Yes, I was referring mainly to equipment. But the change in price isn't the point. You said so yourself: risk vs. reward. If you can get a "reward" in the form of doing whatever you wanted to do in this other location without the "risk" of getting killed and looted on the way, there's a problem. It's that simple. And if you can sell your stuff, put the money in the bank, and then re-equip when you get where you're going, you're doing so with no risk*. If you don't understand that, then I'll try and explain more.

*Admittedly, there is a scenario in which this would be the case even with completely localized banking, namely just leaving items and money in multiple locations and then running between the two points naked with nothing in your pack. But even then, that involves some logistical coordination, decreases the amount of money you have in each location, and requires you to take a risk to get to a new place the first time.

[omnilynx]

Yes, I was referring mainly to equipment. But the change in price isn't the point. You said so yourself: risk vs. reward. If you can get a "reward" in the form of doing whatever you wanted to do in this other location without the "risk" of getting killed and looted on the way, there's a problem. It's that simple. And if you can sell your stuff, put the money in the bank, and then re-equip when you get where you're going, you're doing so with no risk*. If you don't understand that, then I'll try and explain more.

If you don't transport the ore from the mine to the plains, someone else will have to. And they'll charge you a premium for their trouble. So you have a choice: sell the ore at the mine, travel to the plains, and buy ore there at a higher price, or travel with the ore and risk getting looted. Due to the nature of the economy, the two options will (statistically) balance out return-wise, so your choice will be mostly based on your character type.

And as Senti mentioned, the same will be true of equipment, which will presumably be made of ore and other components. With the added factor that equipment actually protects you if you choose to transport it yourself, so the balance will probably shift that way.

[chr1s]

all local items are gonna do is cause people to forget what they have and cause needless lag all over the place, which will do nothing but give an incentive to horders to store more garbage..I say have a universal bank.

This is an FPS game and lag is something that too many people here greatly underestimate... screw the local banks, screw "realism".. there's not many realistic things about this game anyway and there has to be a line drawn somewhere... having smooth gameplay and no lag in an FPS game is priority to anything else... local banks is a totally rediculous I don't see the point and don't know why it was ever even mentioned..Must have been brought up by someone who is a hoarder.

[alfaroverall]

If you don't transport the ore from the mine to the plains, someone else will have to. And they'll charge you a premium for their trouble. So you have a choice: sell the ore at the mine, travel to the plains, and buy ore there at a higher price, or travel with the ore and risk getting looted. Due to the nature of the economy, the two options will (statistically) balance out return-wise, so your choice will be mostly based on your character type.

And as Senti mentioned, the same will be true of equipment, which will presumably be made of ore and other components. With the added factor that equipment actually protects you if you choose to transport it yourself, so the balance will probably shift that way.
And yet another person misses the whole point of my post. You look at it at a grand scale, in terms of the economic impact. So does Senti. I look at it at an individual level. And at an individual level, risk vs. reward is hammered into submission by universal banks. Universal money with localized items isn't nearly as bad, but it's still pretty bad.

Universal money with localized items, admittedly, only lessens risk vs. reward for a few reasons, as opposed to the myriad present with universal items. I've already said them, but since you all don't seem to comprehend, I'll repeat them: you can travel to a new place without any risk, your money isn't spread out between multiple banks, You can see all of this through EVE Online.

In EVE, your money is attributed to your character completely; it cannot be taken from you (which admittedly is different from Darkfall). This allows you to simply sell all your stuff (or leave it where it is, if you have the money), hop in a shuttle and go anywhere in the galaxy with minimal risk. If you have no implants (items which go into your "pod" and provide various enhancements; they are fairly expensive) then the risk is less than a thousandth of an average player's net worth. Without this system, going to a new place is a difficult task. To go to a new place, you have to risk something, or else you'll end up in the new place with nothing and unable to do anything. That's rather obvious, and I think you probably realize that. Care to explain how not having that is somehow a negative?

By definition, universal money banking means that your money isn't distributed between multiple banks. Money being distributed between multiple banks is another advantage for risk vs. reward, because it means that, unless you take a risk moving your money from point A to point B every time, you have less money on hand. In short, it provides another thing that you have to take a risk to deal with in order to reap the maximum reward. This is essentially the same idea as going to a new place with no risk; you either add in a risk when you go from point A to point B, or you lose the reward of having more money around to work with.

A final issue is that one could systematically fill the banks in all the places one frequents with equipment without ever taking a risk. Stick your money in the bank, take some out, buy gear, put the gear away, go somewhere else, rinse and repeat. So now you have the reward of access to gear wherever you want without having ever taken a risk to get there.

Maybe I cite risk vs. reward too much, but someone supporting universal banks in any form doesn't have risk vs. reward on their side very well. Sorry if this seems like an incoherent rant or if I seem ridiculously stubborn, by the way.
all local items are gonna do is cause people to forget what they have and cause needless lag all over the place, which will do nothing but give an incentive to horders to store more garbage..I say have a universal bank.

This is an FPS game and lag is something that too many people here greatly underestimate... screw the local banks, screw "realism".. there's not many realistic things about this game anyway and there has to be a line drawn somewhere... having smooth gameplay and no lag in an FPS game is priority to anything else... local banks is a totally rediculous I don't see the point and don't know why it was ever even mentioned..Must have been brought up by someone who is a hoarder.
lol, caravans...seriously, I might be able to accept universal money with local items (for, as I've said, the effect of such a system is much less than the effect of a fully universal system), but wtf is the point of caravans if there's universal items? And if you say "why should there be caravans?" then I have a link for you: http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/719/719331p1.html It's not that hard to just write down where your items are, or, hell, the devs could just design a system for it. I'd say a magic receipt that is updated each time you go to a bank and is nonlootable. (Yeah, I know, ZOMG NO NONLOOTABLE ITEMS!!!, but there's no use for the item to anyone else anyway.) It's kinda retarded, and slightly nonrealistic, but big deal.

[Leric]

all local items are gonna do is cause people to forget what they have and cause needless lag all over the place, which will do nothing but give an incentive to horders to store more garbage..I say have a universal bank.

This is an FPS game and lag is something that too many people here greatly underestimate... screw the local banks, screw "realism".. there's not many realistic things about this game anyway and there has to be a line drawn somewhere... having smooth gameplay and no lag in an FPS game is priority to anything else... local banks is a totally rediculous I don't see the point and don't know why it was ever even mentioned..Must have been brought up by someone who is a hoarder.

Local banking for items is the only half-way decent option. If there was universal banking, that would completely nerf merchants having to transport items.

[tejón]

WTF necro AGAIN. There are more recent threads about this. I know, because Pernix and I were debating extensively. We've got a running gag now about Switzerland, it seems.

I'm in favor of banks being a place where guys put shit in boxes for you. They can then move that shit, either at your request (well-armored banking caravan to securely transfer goods to another city) or because they're corrupt motherfuckers and are stealing your shit from you (might want to find another bank).

[Senti]

And yet another person misses the whole point of my post. You look at it at a grand scale, in terms of the economic impact. So does Senti. I look at it at an individual level. And at an individual level, risk vs. reward is hammered into submission by universal banks. Universal money with localized items isn't nearly as bad, but it's still pretty bad.

Universal money with localized items, admittedly, only lessens risk vs. reward for a few reasons, as opposed to the myriad present with universal items. I've already said them, but since you all don't seem to comprehend, I'll repeat them: you can travel to a new place without any risk, your money isn't spread out between multiple banks, You can see all of this through EVE Online.

In EVE, your money is attributed to your character completely; it cannot be taken from you (which admittedly is different from Darkfall). This allows you to simply sell all your stuff (or leave it where it is, if you have the money), hop in a shuttle and go anywhere in the galaxy with minimal risk. If you have no implants (items which go into your "pod" and provide various enhancements; they are fairly expensive) then the risk is less than a thousandth of an average player's net worth. Without this system, going to a new place is a difficult task. To go to a new place, you have to risk something, or else you'll end up in the new place with nothing and unable to do anything. That's rather obvious, and I think you probably realize that. Care to explain how not having that is somehow a negative?

By definition, universal money banking means that your money isn't distributed between multiple banks. Money being distributed between multiple banks is another advantage for risk vs. reward, because it means that, unless you take a risk moving your money from point A to point B every time, you have less money on hand. In short, it provides another thing that you have to take a risk to deal with in order to reap the maximum reward. This is essentially the same idea as going to a new place with no risk; you either add in a risk when you go from point A to point B, or you lose the reward of having more money around to work with.

A final issue is that one could systematically fill the banks in all the places one frequents with equipment without ever taking a risk. Stick your money in the bank, take some out, buy gear, put the gear away, go somewhere else, rinse and repeat. So now you have the reward of access to gear wherever you want without having ever taken a risk to get there.

Maybe I cite risk vs. reward too much, but someone supporting universal banks in any form doesn't have risk vs. reward on their side very well. Sorry if this seems like an incoherent rant or if I seem ridiculously stubborn, by the way.

I think I see how you feel about this... The player would still lose money by selling metal in one spot, then going to a spot where metal is uncommon, and then rebuying it...

I definitely see what you mean though- Maybe set up a system where you can get money transferred to a different bank, but at a cost, and will take some time depending on where you're transferring from. If it's from halfway across the continent, then it should take, say, a week at least, and cost a good bit of money (This can be taken out of the money being transferred, or can be taken out from your own pocket). However, if it's merely being transferred from a nearby village, it should only take around two or three hours.

So it would be a way to transfer money, but would be mostly to prevent having you from running half way around the world. Now, thinking on this... How about implementing bank loans? You walk up to a bank, ask for some money, when you're logged in, the amount of time you have their money increases, as does the interest on the money. If you fail to return the money, plus interest, after (x) number of days, then your alignment begins deteriorating with the race of whoever owns the bank.

So, no universal money, but make it be transferable, at a cost, and at a time restriction. Would this solve the problem? It would probably become worthwhile to run with the money you want to move, due to the time limit, and the amount of cash you might lose.

[alfaroverall]

I think I see how you feel about this... The player would still lose money by selling metal in one spot, then going to a spot where metal is uncommon, and then rebuying it...

I definitely see what you mean though- Maybe set up a system where you can get money transferred to a different bank, but at a cost, and will take some time depending on where you're transferring from. If it's from halfway across the continent, then it should take, say, a week at least, and cost a good bit of money (This can be taken out of the money being transferred, or can be taken out from your own pocket). However, if it's merely being transferred from a nearby village, it should only take around two or three hours.

So it would be a way to transfer money, but would be mostly to prevent having you from running half way around the world. Now, thinking on this... How about implementing bank loans? You walk up to a bank, ask for some money, when you're logged in, the amount of time you have their money increases, as does the interest on the money. If you fail to return the money, plus interest, after (x) number of days, then your alignment begins deteriorating with the race of whoever owns the bank.

So, no universal money, but make it be transferable, at a cost, and at a time restriction. Would this solve the problem? It would probably become worthwhile to run with the money you want to move, due to the time limit, and the amount of cash you might lose.
The first system has been more or less struck down in past threads, so I'll just make a brief statement. People will wonder "If banks can haul my money, why can't they haul my items?" Then there will be an outcry, and then suddenly the economy and risk vs. reward are both fubar.

There's a problem with the bank loans system, which is mainly a realism issue. I see the use of banks being done with clan banks the vast majority of the time, once the game has gone into full swing (i.e. about 3 months after release). If it's your clan's bank, why would your alignment go down with them? And what about neutral banks? I imagine Silvertown and any equivalents there are have banks. Why would your alignment go down with them? I don't disagree with the idea of alignment falling (which would fairly quickly cause you to be KOS by NPCs, imo) but there are instances where that just wouldn't make any sense. So either you have a bizarre situation which makes almost no sense, or you have an obviously exploitable system in the form of taking loans you never have to pay back.

Also, I imagine you were saying that you would get a loan at one bank and then pay it back at another, thus yielding access to money in multiple places with a penalty. Well...each race only has 4 major cities as far as we know, so those would allow you to pay back your loan. But those 4 cities are nowhere near the "frontier" where the main action of the game is expected. So then you have the clan banks, which would logically be linked in terms of individual clans. So you only have a handful of places where you have access to paying back your loan. I actually feel that this is better than universal money by a long shot in terms of risk vs. reward, but in terms of fun, realism, etc. it's just not good.

Thank you for actually listening to my point though, Senti; I've had a lot of debates where both parties are just shoving their opinion down the other party's throat, so it's nice to have one more like this for a change.

[omnilynx]

I think I've switched position on this, because I realized it need not be a game mechanic at all. This is a perfect opportunity for a "banking clan" to arise, who would have bankers stationed in major meeting places who you could deposit your money with and withdraw it from anyone else in the banking clan (for a fee). Of course, they'd need some sort of method of keeping track of the money (probably OOG unless there's some mechanism of signing chits (which would be incredibly cool and useful, btw)), and they'd have to build a reputation of being trustworthy, but those are just standard requirements for the profession.

[alfaroverall]

I think I've switched position on this, because I realized it need not be a game mechanic at all. This is a perfect opportunity for a "banking clan" to arise, who would have bankers stationed in major meeting places who you could deposit your money with and withdraw it from anyone else in the banking clan (for a fee). Of course, they'd need some sort of method of keeping track of the money (probably OOG unless there's some mechanism of signing chits (which would be incredibly cool and useful, btw)), and they'd have to build a reputation of being trustworthy, but those are just standard requirements for the profession.
I assume you read about the 790 billion ISK (roughly $30,000 USD market price) bank scam in EVE last year? I don't think anyone in Darkfall would be willing to use an in-game banking clan.

[omnilynx]

I assume you read about the 790 billion ISK (roughly $30,000 USD market price) bank scam in EVE last year? I don't think anyone in Darkfall would be willing to use an in-game banking clan.

Hmm, well in that case I'm still not sure I understand your opposition to a banking system. Let's put aside for the moment the issue of how it's implemented, game mechanic or player system, and assume there is a banking system that allows you to deposit money at one place and withdraw at another, and we'll further assume that it's balanced such that the fees negate the average profit to be made from not risking the loss of that money in travel. What I mean by that is, given an amount of money M that you want to transfer to another location, you can either put it in the bank and withdraw it for a fee F, or you can run it over yourself at a risk of losing it R% of the time. By action either of the devs or the free market, the two options are balanced such that:
M*(1-R%) = M-F
That is, the risk of losing your money balances the reward of not paying the fee. That seems like it would give the player more choices without affecting the economy. What is wrong with such a system?

[alfaroverall]

Hmm, well in that case I'm still not sure I understand your opposition to a banking system. Let's put aside for the moment the issue of how it's implemented, game mechanic or player system, and assume there is a banking system that allows you to deposit money at one place and withdraw at another, and we'll further assume that it's balanced such that the fees negate the average profit to be made from not risking the loss of that money in travel. What I mean by that is, given an amount of money M that you want to transfer to another location, you can either put it in the bank and withdraw it for a fee F, or you can run it over yourself at a risk of losing it R% of the time. By action either of the devs or the free market, the two options are balanced such that:
M*(1-R%) = M-F
That is, the risk of losing your money balances the reward of not paying the fee. That seems like it would give the player more choices without affecting the economy. What is wrong with such a system?
There is nothing inherently wrong with it, but it's just not necessary nor could it ever really be as effective as you want it to be. (It can be compared to Communism; it's a great idea on principle but it would never work out in reality.) In short, if it were done by developer action, there would have to be nonstop economic monitoring to balance things out. The devs just don't have time for that.

If it were done by free market, there would be issues like bank scams. Note that that bank was the only banking corporation that EVE ever had, as far as I know. And they walked out with a boatload of cash. I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happened in DF. But I would actually expect no one to do that. In real life, banks rely on deposits for their livelihood. In a MMORPG, you can go out and mine, even if you were a banker, and sell your wares. Losing the ability to run your bank is not a very heavy hit to you. So you don't care that your bank ceases to exist; you just want to scam idiots. And if that's all banks are doing, then what's the point of even having them?

As for your not understanding my opposition to a (universal) banking system, an in-game banking clan is a very different thing from an arbitrary game mechanic which allows the movement of items around. So I don't understand what you mean.

[omnilynx]

As for your not understanding my opposition to a (universal) banking system, an in-game banking clan is a very different thing from an arbitrary game mechanic which allows the movement of items around. So I don't understand what you mean.
Well, I was looking at it from the point of view of a single player: if you can get your money moved from one place to another for a fee, it doesn't matter to you whether it's the game or other players that moves it.

I guess the thing is for me that with all the talk about player freedom and such, the only choice that seems viable in this game is to be a fighter (in a general sense). If you specialize in crafting or merchandising or something, you'll just have everything taken away from you by griefers or scammers. For me that's an important choice. I'm not a carebear; I don't want to be protected from such things, but I do want non-fighting roles to be a viable option, dangers and all. Right now, though, the game seems heavily unbalanced against those roles.

Perhaps a combination of the two methods would be best, then: something like that the game manages the banking but the clan sets the fees? That wouldn't be ideal but it's my best suggestion on short notice. The reason for bank scams in these games is out-of-game, after all: you can exchange in-game money for real cash on the black market. For any significant amount, any sane person would choose to take the in-game penalty (of basically destroying your clan) for real-life profit. I'm not usually in favor of protection in DF, but in this case it's basically protection against an OOG action.

Edit: BY the way, the banks I'm talking about are for money, not items.

[Unahim]

I voted for Money & items local.

But now I think about it, should have voted for Money universal, items local.

Since I don't support the idea of magic recall, gates, and other crap like that for DF, it would only make sense to have access to your money pretty much anywhere.

It wouldn't make sense to go to the other side of the map just to crab a couple thousand in gold just to get a weapon or something at a vendor.

If they will allow magic recall, and/or other devices for rapid transit; in that case, I'd stick with my original vote.

Don't know if it's been said already, too many pages up, but recall rune sare in, but they are both super expensive and lootable, so you won't have a lot.
Also, you need 20 un intrerrupted minutes to bind a recall rune to a spot, I know I am at least going to softly hit someone on his 18th minute and run like hell if I get the chance*grins*

The system will most likely be money universal, loot local... I know the devs said it'd be mostly local

[Just Hen]

Money universal, items local.

As someone else has explained, it's a far more "realistic" approach.

[alfaroverall]

The reason for bank scams in these games is out-of-game, after all: you can exchange in-game money for real cash on the black market.
Incorrect. CCP explicitly told the bank scammers (who were reported for the scam) that they could keep the money but they could not sell it. (And if they already know who might be selling it, it's pretty easy to simply watch their wallets and see if there's any strange sudden drops in them, especially with the in-game automatic money journal.) I just included the $30,000 USD thing to show how much 790 billion ISK is in EVE. I imagine they probably went out and bought themselves a few fully T2 fitted carriers, a couple fully T2 fitted dreadnoughts, maybe some parts to put together a mothership...etc.
I guess the thing is for me that with all the talk about player freedom and such, the only choice that seems viable in this game is to be a fighter (in a general sense). If you specialize in crafting or merchandising or something, you'll just have everything taken away from you by griefers or scammers. For me that's an important choice. I'm not a carebear; I don't want to be protected from such things, but I do want non-fighting roles to be a viable option, dangers and all. Right now, though, the game seems heavily unbalanced against those roles.
This I can agree with, and it's unfortunate. I also feel that these roles are hindered by the developers because they seem to be done in what seems like a rather "grind-esque" system in a game which claims to try to avoid a grind whenever possible. (Sorry to bring up a different topic, but it's pretty relevant.) I don't see banking as a good way to deal with this, mainly for the reasons that I've stated, but I will admit that it would be one possible way.

[Senti]

Alfaroverall- I actually definitely see your point, but, when you brought up the part about having players asking 'Why can't they bring my items too?!?!?!', well, lets say that they can. But now it has to be in a caravan. So the developers would set up caravans that run whenever they have enough orders to specific areas. These would be more expensive than setting up your own caravan, but the items could still be looted.

You could keep grinding, or doing whatever, while the items make their way to you. It's like hiring a merchant to go on the caravan instead of going yourself. I think. It should take around two-three times longer than a player-run caravan, but it should have a relatively large amount of guards.

It would be expensive, but the risk in it taking so long, and the risk in large groups of enemy players attacking it, would negate that. Instead of going all the way to the other side of the world (Unrealistic, I know, but just go with it), getting all your stuff, setting up a caravan, going all the way back. You could stay where you're at, send in the order to the bank where your items are located, have a courier run it over, this courier could be attacked and killed, but would move very fast.

Universal money could cause problems, I see that.

[omnilynx]

Incorrect. CCP explicitly told the bank scammers (who were reported for the scam) that they could keep the money but they could not sell it. (And if they already know who might be selling it, it's pretty easy to simply watch their wallets and see if there's any strange sudden drops in them, especially with the in-game automatic money journal.) I just included the $30,000 USD thing to show how much 790 billion ISK is in EVE. I imagine they probably went out and bought themselves a few fully T2 fitted carriers, a couple fully T2 fitted dreadnoughts, maybe some parts to put together a mothership...etc.

I dunno, from all the arguments I've heard on these forums it seems like the in-game rewards for scamming would be taken care of just like the ones for griefing. Isn't the point supposed to be that you couldn't really survive if you did that kind of stuff because your reputation would make people not want to cooperate with you? I mean, sure, you get a big one-time windfall, but now everybody in the game hates your guts: how long do you really think that money is going to protect you when your cities/members are constantly under attack?

[Unahim]

Alfaroverall- I actually definitely see your point, but, when you brought up the part about having players asking 'Why can't they bring my items too?!?!?!', well, lets say that they can. But now it has to be in a caravan. So the developers would set up caravans that run whenever they have enough orders to specific areas. These would be more expensive than setting up your own caravan, but the items could still be looted.

You could keep grinding, or doing whatever, while the items make their way to you. It's like hiring a merchant to go on the caravan instead of going yourself. I think. It should take around two-three times longer than a player-run caravan, but it should have a relatively large amount of guards.

It would be expensive, but the risk in it taking so long, and the risk in large groups of enemy players attacking it, would negate that. Instead of going all the way to the other side of the world (Unrealistic, I know, but just go with it), getting all your stuff, setting up a caravan, going all the way back. You could stay where you're at, send in the order to the bank where your items are located, have a courier run it over, this courier could be attacked and killed, but would move very fast.

Universal money could cause problems, I see that.

What's the logical explenation for npc caravans going slower?And don't say heavier carts because they'd just buy more carts and spread the items over them, then and I'm quite sure banks can afford better caravans than a lot of people

[Senti]

What's the logical explenation for npc caravans going slower?And don't say heavier carts because they'd just buy more carts and spread the items over them, then and I'm quite sure banks can afford better caravans than a lot of people

Okay. The less you pay, the longer it takes.

Say they suffer from consistent break downs from badly made carts.

[Sunspots]

Local Money/Local Item. I don't see a distinction between money and items. Money is an item or at least it should be. In fact, if I were a skilled miner/blacksmith, I'd like to have a couple options with what I could do with my ore. I should be able to sell the ore, use it for crafting or smelt my own coins with it.

[Senti]

smelt my own coins with it.

You do know that that is highly illegal, right?

It's called counterfeiting.

[Sunspots]

Yeah.. you know, I can mine gold in WoW. What can I make out of it? A key to open a locked chest. LOL.. or I can sell a gold bar for like 1 silver. Blizzard really got that wrong.

[alfaroverall]

Alfaroverall- I actually definitely see your point, but, when you brought up the part about having players asking 'Why can't they bring my items too?!?!?!', well, lets say that they can. But now it has to be in a caravan. So the developers would set up caravans that run whenever they have enough orders to specific areas. These would be more expensive than setting up your own caravan, but the items could still be looted.

You could keep grinding, or doing whatever, while the items make their way to you. It's like hiring a merchant to go on the caravan instead of going yourself. I think. It should take around two-three times longer than a player-run caravan, but it should have a relatively large amount of guards.

It would be expensive, but the risk in it taking so long, and the risk in large groups of enemy players attacking it, would negate that. Instead of going all the way to the other side of the world (Unrealistic, I know, but just go with it), getting all your stuff, setting up a caravan, going all the way back. You could stay where you're at, send in the order to the bank where your items are located, have a courier run it over, this courier could be attacked and killed, but would move very fast.

Universal money could cause problems, I see that.
This would again, cause a lot less problems than otherwise, but at this point you either have an almost universal money sink or a convoluted mechanic that no one uses, at least in my opinion. I imagine it would be the latter. Because after just a few weeks, people would know what the strongest caravan you could pay for would be comprised of, and would go around marauding the NPC caravans, getting plentiful amounts of loot. Even though the Darkfall AI is better than most AI, I wouldn't expect it to be nearly as good as a player. After a few weeks (maybe months) the players will pretty much understand the AI and figure out how to use it to their advantage in some way.

Or this could be untrue and everyone would use it, with only occasional successful attacks on the caravans, creating a money sink. I can't really know.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that by doing it that way, you put in a really convoluted mechanic that no longer really serves the purpose you wanted it to in the first place. In this case, things aren't really as convenient as you wanted them to be. Often the best solution is the simplest solution.
Yeah.. you know, I can mine gold in WoW. What can I make out of it? A key to open a locked chest. LOL.. or I can sell a gold bar for like 1 silver. Blizzard really got that wrong.
MMO currency needs a reason to be worth something. In most cases, the money comes out universally (drops, quest rewards, etc.) and then NPCs will take it in exchange for things. When people are no longer relying on paying NPCs for something, the in-game currency ceases to have value. (See Diablo 2 and Stones of Jordan being used as currency.) And how could a player-made currency properly interface with NPCs? It's a flawed perspective to think that making your own money will suddenly make it valuable. Because in real life, gold is extremely hard to acquire, has an almost completely constant supply, and is considered precious for a wide variety of reasons. Gold that is mined in an MMO (as opposed to gold obtained from drops, quests, etc.) could only be the former of those three things, by definition.

[Senti]

This would again, cause a lot less problems than otherwise, but at this point you either have an almost universal money sink or a convoluted mechanic that no one uses, at least in my opinion. I imagine it would be the latter. Because after just a few weeks, people would know what the strongest caravan you could pay for would be comprised of, and would go around marauding the NPC caravans, getting plentiful amounts of loot. Even though the Darkfall AI is better than most AI, I wouldn't expect it to be nearly as good as a player. After a few weeks (maybe months) the players will pretty much understand the AI and figure out how to use it to their advantage in some way.

Or this could be untrue and everyone would use it, with only occasional successful attacks on the caravans, creating a money sink. I can't really know.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that by doing it that way, you put in a really convoluted mechanic that no longer really serves the purpose you wanted it to in the first place. In this case, things aren't really as convenient as you wanted them to be. Often the best solution is the simplest solution.

Hm, good point :/
I also remembered that you will (probably) not be traveling that much, unless you're an explorer or a caravan merchant.

I guess most people think of the game in other-game terms, like actually being forced to move to a new area for experience. Here, you don't really need to move that far, and when you do move, you would (probably) take all of your loot with you, and it would be a planned move.

I guess local money and items would be best...

[Tad]

All local. When you take a town you take their bank too. If the money is universal the victors lose out.

Additionally if money is universal then I could travel across the entire continent naked and then just withdraw my money when I get to the desired town and buy new gear. It eliminates the risk of full-loot, and it's crap.

[Maximuz]

Money universal, items local. Or , have it that if your "Local" bank wants to move your items...you can rob the bank train :sly:

[Samurai]

Money only in local backs. Items to be deposeded in your limited safe storage in your house and the rest in unsafe storage in your house.

[wowsa0]

I voted money universal, items local. If items were universal then it would destroy a whole element of darkfall, an open PvP game. I can't wait to see merchants preparing for their trip to carry items bought in one location to sell them in another location where they are worth more, they will have to hire players to protect them, and will have to be wary of players trying to ambush them.

It also encourages local economies. If items were universal then it would be easy for players to safely transport them from place to place, drop it off in one place and pick it up in another, meaning that prices are the same throughout the whole map. However, if items are not universal and one area has absolutely no iron ore (just made that up as an example), then prices there will be a lot higher than in other areas because the iron ore must be transported across dangerous roads. Merchants will have to buy things where they're cheap and transport them to where they're expensive. And the fact that Darkfall will actually have lots of separate economies rather than one big economy is quite exciting. In one area the economy could crash and everyone could become really poor as the amount they get from income, either through gathering resources or killing other players, drops dramatically. Merchants could then take advantage of these depressions by buying up stuff while they're cheap.

[Unahim]

All local. When you take a town you take their bank too. If the money is universal the victors lose out.

Additionally if money is universal then I could travel across the entire continent naked and then just withdraw my money when I get to the desired town and buy new gear. It eliminates the risk of full-loot, and it's crap.

a very good point about the universal money, I think I rather have it local too in the face of that, although someone running around naked will be killed over and over and over again and thus will never quite reach his destination.

And banks should *never* be in direct controle of a clan, the devs have already stated that banks will be the sole place where something is actually safe.Else you'd have scenarios where a guy becomes clan leader, their bank attracts players to their city and when it's nice and full, he take sit all, sells it all and then sells the in game gold fo rout of game money.NO OOC thing should ever be able to f8ck up gameplay like that.
A fee for using the bank should be as far as it goes.
And maybe if a clan destroys a bank, all items should be lost(but not in the clans hands).No idea why you would do that though, people would leave your town and you'd lose all income.Would be a great tactic for a clan who knows they can only hold the enemy city for a day or two, though

[Nashtak]

Im 90% Money Universal and Items Local.

Items Local would be totally lame. What would be the point of being a bandit if the travalers only need to put all their items in the bank then retrieve them at the other town? LAME

10% Money Local and Items Local for basically the same reason as above.

[Worthless]

Both local will make it so that people would actually carry money and items with them, as they go to point A to point B. Then people would really feel it when they get their shit pounded and their stuff stolen.

[coder1024]

looks like convenience wins out in this case, with the winner being global cash so you can drop your cash anywhere and pick it up anywhere else.

[Maximuz]

Does anyone know what the answers going to be?

[coder1024]

Does anyone know what the answers going to be?
uh, what do you think? no, we don't know...

[Senti]

A fee for using the bank should be as far as it goes.

Actually... Maybe, each time you pay a fee to use the bank, it goes straight into the guild coffers... To help for funding. Like taxes.

[Septus]

I voted for universal money *and* items. If teleporting is rare like advertised (which is all we have to go on), I think people are underestimating the severe pain in the ass it would be to accidentally leave an item far away - realism aside, that really don't add much to the environment.

For the realism junkies, I would advocate some kind of transport system (like some one mentioned earlier). Let cities create trade routes between cities (for a price), and then let the cities charge 'customers' to transport items between cities for them.

That way if I die and I don't have another sword in Eleador, I can pay KoE to add my 'divine sword' from Mirendil to the next transport, which could arrive on some sort of schedule (depending on city management).

For anyone who plays MMO's, you tend to acquire a lot of items, and banking them quickly is generally the easiest way to lighten your pack. I don't want to have to spend time manually traveling between cities when I want to consolidate my items in 'x' city (or imagine moving cities and having to make 10 or 20 trips to move your belongings).

I wouldn't even mind if it's completely player run (add a new service for merchants), so long as the mechanics are there. If a merchant can't take my receipt and access the sword in my bank, then it's not possible - catch my drift?

For the realism fanatics, I bring up the fact that banking is an old, old idea. And the initial concept OF banking was that you could give a branch your gold, and then withdraw it at any other bank branch.

[The Bible Man]

I said "Money universal, items local" because that is more realistic and dark fall is all about being real, right? :D

[boxfetish]

Yeah, that's right I necroed this thread (rather than just starting a new one)




Bank Building Levels
lvl 1: allows deposit/withdrawal of gold to ppl visiting the local bank.
lvl 2: allows deposit/withdrawal of items to ppl visiting the local bank.
lvl 3: allows deposit/withdrawal of items and gold to ppl visiting any other bank in a bank link

Bank Link
Clans may set up links between their own banks (provided they are all lvl 3) or even other clans banks (provided the other clan agrees).

I like how everyone ignores the above quote in this thread. Let's hope the Devs go with something like the above. Universal money and items are totally carebear.

I can maybe see allowing a clan with more than one city to allow universal money transfer between each bank (if all banks are "level 3"). If a clan with 3 cities loses one though, it should immediately lose 1/3 of the gold in all of it's banks.

Universal ITEM transfer of any kind should be totally off the table. I can't even believe people who follow this game are advocating for it.



It will be tested in alpha and beta. We like the idea that if you deposit a longsword in a bank, you have to go back to the exact same bank to withdraw it. However this might prove too annoying in the long run, and as with everything else, we have to consider gameplay issues vs. realism.


Please! Devs! Don't give in to the carebears and whiners who want everything to be as easy and risk-free as possible. Universal items (and most likely money) will totally ruin regional economies, trade and caravans.



Scenario 1: Clan A is just about ready to have their main city taken over by Clan B. Clan B is looking forward to the spoils. Oh...wait. There aren't any spoils because before they fell to Clan B, Clan A deposited every single item and piece of gold they had anywhere in the city into their universal bank and now it is all safe. Sorry, Clan B.

If a clan has 3 cities it should be at least three times as difficult to protect their assets, not just as easy as it is with one city because of magical instant item and money transfer between their cities.



Scenario 2: An Mirdain/Human clan sets up 2 cities around clanstones. One in Mirdain lands and one in Human lands. There is a very useful herb that is fairly common in Mirdain lands and very rare in human lands. Does this clan have to supply it's human city with this herb by outfitting or hiring a caravan to transport it there? Nope. Magical univeral banking comes to their rescue!!!

Instantly the frequency and value of a resource is equalized in several parts of the world with zero risk or effort. Why should the Dev's even bother to have resources with different density levels in different parts of the world?



Carebears, GTFO!

[Ragnar Dragonfyre]

Universal money and local items. It honestly makes the most sense for a game like this.

Sieges far from your kingdom would be made more difficult by a system like this. Supplies would have to be carried with the army, thus increasing the risk that comes with waging war.

[Elicas]

Universal money with local items. There should also be a weight limit for items, so houses and storage would actually have use.

[Noctrune]

I say, When players create banks that money should be transferable to all banks made by that player. Like branches. If the bank you use only has 1 branch in a small little town, its your own damn fault, switch banks =p

[End Dream]

i actually havent heard this "money universal, items local" it sounds like a great idea.. i hate the idea of money being local.. they keep stressing how big darkfall is.. it would just make the game less fun.. as far as items.. i think its a fair trade with people who scream "EVERYTHING LOCAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111111" If items are indeed local, it would be cool to have a system which tells you where all your items are located.. so you dont forget

Universal money with local items. There should also be a weight limit for items, so houses and storage would actually have use.

i agree with this as well

[boxfetish]

Universal money and local items. It honestly makes the most sense for a game like this.

Sieges far from your kingdom would be made more difficult by a system like this. Supplies would have to be carried with the army, thus increasing the risk that comes with waging war.

Universal money with local items. There should also be a weight limit for items, so houses and storage would actually have use.

I could deal with universal banks if there are some restrictions and risks to these so-called univeral banks.

1. Universal Banks are clan only. No money tranfer with the click of a mouse button between different races or clans.

2. No NPC vendors that can "convert" assets to gold in a city under siege so that their are no spoils for the victor.

3. If a clan has several banks that are linked and universal, then a system needs to be setup so that a small percentage of their gold is forfeit if they lose one of these banks. Gold storage should not be 100% safe and easy.

I would like it to be possible for one or more clans to become "banker" or merchant clans. Maybe they would be able to (try) remain neutral to most/all factions and clans and provide "branches" for relatively safe and secure storage even in two nearby warring towns.

[Solo Immortal]

I picked: Money universal, items local.

Because, it's more realistic.

Ex: Put money in a bank , you pick up from another bank.

Items local , because not very realistic getting it from another bank.

[Tedium]

Universal money, local items if using a bank.
Local money, local items if guild or housing containers.

[boxfetish]

I picked: Money universal, items local.

Because, it's more realistic.

Ex: Put money in a bank , you pick up from another bank.

Items local , because not very realistic getting it from another bank.

It's only realistic if the "universalness" is only clan-wide (or perhaps between allied clans as well) and if whatever actual cash in that bank's particular physical location is lost when the city that the bank is in falls to the enemy.

Are those of you advocating for universal money expecting all money in the game to be magically secure and safe? Do you expect every bank in the game in every city to be connected in this way?

What happens if Clan A manages to take over all of Clan B's cities at once? Is all of Clan B's gold magically safe in limbo until the rebuild a city with a bank and then it becomes available again?

I gotta say I am pretty surprised by how many people seem to want universal money with no restrictions.

[Solo Immortal]

It's only realistic if the "universalness" is only clan-wide (or perhaps between allied clans as well) and if whatever actual cash in that bank's particular physical location is lost when the city that the bank is in falls to the enemy.

Are those of you advocating for universal money expecting all money in the game to be magically secure and safe? Do you expect every bank in the game in every city to be connected in this way?

What happens if Clan A manages to take over all of Clan B's cities at once? Is all of Clan B's gold magically safe in limbo until the rebuild a city with a bank and then it becomes available again?

I gotta say I am pretty surprised by how many people seem to want universal money with no restrictions.


Those are good reasons , but I , just didn't say much , because I dont care much about the topic.

[boxfetish]

Those are good reasons , but I , just didn't say much , because I dont care much about the topic.

Meh. I guess it's a pet issue of mine. If not done very carefully it could destroy caravans, trade routes, and regional resource differences.

I am also worried (just like with teleportation) that the long term negative effects on trade of a poorly implemented system can not really be ferreted out in only a few weeks of final beta.

[rustybean]

if you got a bank in the city then if you were raided thats the main thing they would go for and everything of yours will be gone gold and all:)

[lemmingsoup]

i voted everything local, but so long as all items are local i'm not really fussed, money global is perfectly logical if you assume that all of the banks are run by either one group or are on good enough terms to trade currency for each other's clients. (perhaps a small percentage charge for withdrawing money from a bank other than then the one at which it was deposited?)

This only applies for secure NPC banks of course, for clans whose vaults can be raided by others the money must be kept local.

[-Havoc-]

I voted local money and local items. Maybe there can be an item/money summoning fee if you're far from your home bank?

Thoughts?

[dirtknap]

universal money, local banks.

this is the way EVE does it and EVE has the deepest, most complex economy, gameplay & territorial PVP of any game i have ever played.

local banks do not make the game tedious because of the thriving local economies that are created as a result of not having UBs. the only real difference to a solo player between a UB game and a non-UB game is what you do when you travel to a new area and are forced to resupply -- in a UB game, you withdraw from your UB (if there is one), in a non-UB game, you buy from the local economy (assuming you don't have anything in that local bank).

it's really a trivial difference in convenience for the player between UB & non-UB, but it's a dramatic difference in the scope of the economy & gameplay. i believe building in UBs for the sole reason of 'player convenience' is somewhat shortsighted & naive.

if EVE has a huge world and local banks yet is not tedious for players why should Darkfall be? not only that but the EVE economy model blows everyone else away for depth. note also that EVE employed a full-time professor of economics specifically to design & maintain their economic meta-game, and it shows.

i think DF's choice to go with UBs "because everyone else is" is killing off a lot of the potential depth & complexity of the DF world, and it's a mistake.

[IcePillow]

Items and money local
I'm strongly against any kind of UB

[Claes]

I voted local items and local money. But I should've voted local items, universal money instead :/

[Aragon]

Money universal, items local. I also want some items to be universal for fast re-equipping and good playability. Items universally should be very limited though for not messing up transportations.

[KellorKleft]

If anything makes the most sense, it's universal money, like any other bank, and local for items.

[DanMan3395]

I say universal money and items but not resources or bulk or large items. this way the magical super fun idea of a caravan could still exist for raw resource shipments if so needed.

:ninja:

[Deja vu]

IMHO id go for universal money but local items, but I am not in charge. Hopefully now that they devs have given us an official answer may be we will stop having UB threads soon?

[DanMan3395]

IMHO id go for universal money but local items, but I am not in charge. Hopefully now that they devs have given us an official answer may be we will stop having UB threads soon?

NEVER!!!

UB THREADS WILL LIVE FOREVER!

:ninja:

[dirtknap]

given that nearly 3/4s of the almost 750 people that have voted on this thread are against UBs, i hope Tasos and the gang are taking notes.

i hope at least some of them have played EVE, so they know why so many of us are against UBs. before EVE, i could not have imagined a game without UBs could work either. EVE proves beyond a doubt that it's possible to have local banks only in a huge, persistant world.

[Matthieus]

Why not no UB and just keep local banks?

[III [C*D]]

I didn't vote, because its already the way it is.

You may /wrist. Thanks.

[alfaroverall]

given that nearly 3/4s of the almost 750 people that have voted on this thread are against UBs, i hope Tasos and the gang are taking notes.

i hope at least some of them have played EVE, so they know why so many of us are against UBs. before EVE, i could not have imagined a game without UBs could work either. EVE proves beyond a doubt that it's possible to have local banks only in a huge, persistant world.
Well, EVE has local items and beyond universal money. That is, your money is always with you and cannot be lost unless you spend it, but all your items are either on your ship or in a station.

[III [C*D]]

universal money, local banks.

this is the way EVE does it and EVE has the deepest, most complex economy, gameplay & territorial PVP of any game i have ever played.

local banks do not make the game tedious because of the thriving local economies that are created as a result of not having UBs. the only real difference to a solo player between a UB game and a non-UB game is what you do when you travel to a new area and are forced to resupply -- in a UB game, you withdraw from your UB (if there is one), in a non-UB game, you buy from the local economy (assuming you don't have anything in that local bank).

it's really a trivial difference in convenience for the player between UB & non-UB, but it's a dramatic difference in the scope of the economy & gameplay. i believe building in UBs for the sole reason of 'player convenience' is somewhat shortsighted & naive.

if EVE has a huge world and local banks yet is not tedious for players why should Darkfall be? not only that but the EVE economy model blows everyone else away for depth. note also that EVE employed a full-time professor of economics specifically to design & maintain their economic meta-game, and it shows.

i think DF's choice to go with UBs "because everyone else is" is killing off a lot of the potential depth & complexity of the DF world, and it's a mistake.

Any game you have ever played, but you haven't played DF, so shut up about EVE. EVE is the worst game I've ever played...

[III [C*D]]

Universal money with local items is a system that works brilliantly for EVE, and also more or less makes sense too. After all, various bank branches probably have money on hand, but having a copy of your Kinslaying Flametooth Blade kicking about is, well, pretty damn unlikely.

Just be sure to include an Assets screen of some sort that tracks where we've left what, thx.

What happens when the UB money only computer system (like the actual computer system in the DF banks) get's haxor3d and you lose all your money?

Wait, a computer system in the DF banks that keeps track of everybodies money... wait what?

[III [C*D]]

given that nearly 3/4s of the almost 750 people that have voted on this thread are against UBs, i hope Tasos and the gang are taking notes.

i hope at least some of them have played EVE, so they know why so many of us are against UBs. before EVE, i could not have imagined a game without UBs could work either. EVE proves beyond a doubt that it's possible to have local banks only in a huge, persistant world.


If EVE is such a great game, why are you even here? Why do you want DF to be an EVE clone? Why not just keep playing EVE if its so great?

[spike47]

I don't understand the fuzz about this, I've seen a dozen threads about the same thing over and over again.

Can someone explain so I can join in on the fun?

[Septus]

I sortof think there should be both, Guildhousing/private houseing allowing for local item storage, of greater capacity, then say the bank, which is universal in towns, but has a limited capacity. Money should be an item, so its dealt with the same way.

Exactly what I had in mind.

[Septus]

Money universal, items local. I also want some items to be universal for fast re-equipping and good playability. Items universally should be very limited though for not messing up transportations.

This would be workable too imo. Like make any normal player crafted gear fit in the UB, but any rare/magical items, or gear that has been imbued with special properties, can't.

But the devs said something about UB's playing a role in city building & conquest, so we'll see exactly what they meant by that.

[III [C*D]]

This would be workable too imo. Like make any normal player crafted gear fit in the UB, but any rare/magical items, or gear that has been imbued with special properties, can't.

But the devs said something about UB's playing a role in city building & conquest, so we'll see exactly what they meant by that.

In reality it doesn't matter. It's the fact that people are saying UB's will ruin the game. Its ridiculous. As I said before, all local banks do is make me waste time every time I die to go find new gear to buy.

If your (by your i mean people advocating LB's only) sole argument with Local Banks is that it supports local economy, because dead players will have to buy from player crafters... consider that if I buy 5 sets of gear and store them in my bank, or buy 1 set of gear 5 times after dying 5 times. I still pumped the same amount of money into the economy. It makes no difference other then wasting the time it takes to run to the market, find a crafter to buy from, buy the gear, run back to the bank and then back out to pvp.

It's unnecessary tedium, period.

[Esh]

I voted other. Items is such a broad term, and it leaves out limiters like types and weight and location. UBs that can only contain weapons and armor (for example) and aren't ubiquitous aren't represented on this poll.

[Azash_AT]

I like corn!

[Falanor]

I vote for universal money, local items.

I think that makes most sense. You can pick up money from your bank anywhere, but items should be in local banks/warehouses

[Septus]

I vote for universal money, local items.

I think that makes most sense. You can pick up money from your bank anywhere, but items should be in local banks/warehouses

You know the reason you can pick up money from any branch office is because the bank holds money/gold/whatever at every location so that you can withdraw it anywhere.

I don't see why it would be such a stretch to have banks also hold inventory of weapons, armor, reagents, etc.

If you want to be realistic, player clans should have to keep assets (even gold) in inventory and give it out to players who request it. The clan would then take your gold from your previous town.

The reason the game doesn't implement that is because videogames don't worry about making everything realistic. They just use models from the real world and find an entertaining way to represent it.

[KellorKleft]

You know the reason you can pick up money from any branch office is because the bank holds money/gold/whatever at every location so that you can withdraw it anywhere.

I don't see why it would be such a stretch to have banks also hold inventory of weapons, armor, reagents, etc.

If you want to be realistic, player clans should have to keep assets (even gold) in inventory and give it out to players who request it. The clan would then take your gold from your previous town.

The reason the game doesn't implement that is because videogames don't worry about making everything realistic. They just use models from the real world and find an entertaining way to represent it.
If someone put a whole bunch of gold in a bank, I don't think a bank miles away woulf be able to pull the same amount out of their ass.
This game is trying to put as much realism in within entertaining purposes. UB's without U items is essential for transporting goods services, and piracy/theft is made a feature we can use.
I think that's better than letting us be in safe mode.

[Septus]

If someone put a whole bunch of gold in a bank, I don't think a bank miles away woulf be able to pull the same amount out of their ass.
This game is trying to put as much realism in within entertaining purposes. UB's without U items is essential for transporting goods services, and piracy/theft is made a feature we can use.
I think that's better than letting us be in safe mode.

Right, they would only be able to give you as much as they have in any branch. Which is why only ridiculously rich people would be able to be bankers.

The point to making a video game isn't making it realistic, it's modeling the world after our real world. After that, it's all about just making a fun system.

You guys are such pussy carebears for not wanting to have purely player made banks, seriously. Way to not be hardcore. /sarcasm

[Esh]

Right, they would only be able to give you as much as they have in any branch. Which is why only ridiculously rich people would be able to be bankers.

The point to making a video game isn't making it realistic, it's modeling the world after our real world. After that, it's all about just making a fun system.

You guys are such pussy carebears for not wanting to have purely player made banks, seriously. Way to not be hardcore. /sarcasm

Ever play ENtropia Universe? The banks there are leased by players, and the player who owns the bank can set the interest rate, make money off the people using it, and even give out loans. The system has you put up an item as a collateral, and if you miss the dues, it zaps your item to the player who owns the bank. Pretty nifty.

[KellorKleft]

The point to making a video game isn't making it realistic, it's modeling the world after our real world.


You kinda just made a paradox. @.@

[Xtra-Medium]

I don't see the need for universal item banks b/c this game is not item based. Just have a few money in there so you can get a new shield or w/e at the nearest town.

[Honorzeal]

I think it should be a mix

Prehaps local item storage should be allowed with a greater capacity, then say the bank, which is universal in towns, but has a limited capacity. Money should be an item, so its dealt with the same way.

My two cents.

[Septus]

I think it should be a mix

Prehaps local item storage should be allowed with a greater capacity, then say the bank, which is universal in towns, but has a limited capacity. Money should be an item, so its dealt with the same way.

My two cents.

That's already how it is right now. Too many retards are going around saying "omgz it's ruined!!" so sensible people like Honorzeal assume that it must be fucked up.

The only thing fucked up is the heads of a couple hundred forum trolls.

[ppsh42]

I'm not quite sure if this was already stated.

UB's won't matter at all. Wasn't it stated that they will be present in certain locations in Agon. Assuming I'm right, wouldn't it seem obvious that one would still need to caravan his goods to the UB? He can still be PK'ed by Bandits, Pirates, raiders, etc.

[psyonix]

I don't know how transportation was like in EVE(this is not EVE)...as well as some other things... but anyone that's played UO knows that there isn't a prob with Universal Banks if it is the same system as UO's which it seems to be(as with the plethora of other features - working on weight as opposed to items). Being that transportation in DF is gonna be a hell of a lot more complex than UO, universal banks in DF makes more sense than ever. I fully understand what the devs are talking about when they refer to things being tedious and monotonous with local banks but yet still having a need for caravans to make things faster.

Universal Banks is a prime example of how the devs should not listen to the majority of raging forumfall noobs who do not have the EXPERIENCE that THEY have with the same MMORPGs that THEY have played. I fully support their decision with how they are implementing this idea 100% and as for the rest of you, we're tired of listening to your limited mmorpg experience and issues like this only highlight your ignorance and exposes your limited way of thinking for what it truly is: WoW/EQ/SWG/EVE ect.

[dirtknap]

I don't know how transportation was like in EVE(this is not EVE)...as well as some other things... but anyone that's played UO knows that there isn't a prob with Universal Banks if it is the same system as UO's which it seems to be(as with the plethora of other features - working on weight as opposed to items). Being that transportation in DF is gonna be a hell of a lot more complex than UO, universal banks in DF makes more sense than ever. I fully understand what the devs are talking about when they refer to things being tedious and monotonous with local banks but yet still having a need for caravans to make things faster.

Universal Banks is a prime example of how the devs should not listen to the majority of raging forumfall noobs who do not have the EXPERIENCE that THEY have with the same MMORPGs that THEY have played. I fully support their decision with how they are implementing this idea 100% and as for the rest of you, we're tired of listening to your limited mmorpg experience and issues like this only highlight your ignorance and exposes your limited way of thinking for what it truly is: WoW/EQ/SWG/EVE ect.

I too have faith in the devs, and i'd play DF even if it wasn't a full-loot game, or if it had safezones, because i love hardcore PVP, against difficult opponents.

But when Tasos says that not having UBs, I begin to question whether he's ever played a non-UB for any length of time.

Not having UBs does not make a game tedious, for the simple fact that the supply/demand generated creates local markets, from which you can buy whatever you need.

that is why EVE is relevant here -- it's a non-UB, hardcore PVP game with a huge game world, like Darkfall. it's relevant as a case study.

if you had played EVE for more than a few months, and found the non-UB aspect tedious then that's fair enough. But to be arguing that no-UBs is bad without really having tried a game that doesn't have them? Well that's stupidity/naivety, and at least some of the anti-anti-UB crowd fall into this bracket.

i sure as hell don't want a tedious game either. if i really thought that no-UBs made the game tedious i wouldn't want them in there either. based on all the MMOGs released right now, the scope & depth of EVE for territorial conquest is amazing, it blows all the UB-containing games away, and i would love to see that kind of complexity & depth in DF.

note: i am against UBs and i am not even interesting in trading or crafting.

as i said, 3/4s of over 750 people who voted in this thread are against UBs for items. it's a worthwhile discussion.

[dirtknap]

;1356738']In reality it doesn't matter. It's the fact that people are saying UB's will ruin the game. Its ridiculous. As I said before, all local banks do is make me waste time every time I die to go find new gear to buy.

don't let your obvious ignorance of basic economic principles of supply/demand and the fact you've clearly never played a non-UB game get in the way of forming your opinions, right?

non-UB games are not tedious because any time you would have gone to your UB to withdraw some items to resupply, in a UB game you withdraw from your local bank, and if nothing there, you buy from the local market. it's no fucking different to you as a player.

the only time there won't be anything in the local market is if there is a war/siege in your area and an enemy clan is ganking the traders that supply the city in preparation for an all-out assault.

ie: no-UBs force people to actually use strategy & tactics at more levels than just on the battlefield.

no-UBs allow a small but intelligent clan to beat a large clan by using intelligent tactics like espionage & ganking their suppliers/transport to wear down the large clan's city by attrition. in a UB game, the large clan always wins.

[Nehemia]

70% of this community at the moment wants localized bank items. Aventurine, are you listening to the possible subs or the people on the forums, the ones that really are with Darkfall.

[dirtknap]

;1356662']If EVE is such a great game, why are you even here? Why do you want DF to be an EVE clone? Why not just keep playing EVE if its so great?

EVE == space-themed PVP sandbox game
DF == high fantasy-themed PVP sandbox game

i prefer fantasy games, but i respect EVE because of its depth & game design. EVE is a fantastic model for DF to follow because they are really similar games once you remove the space/fantasy theme and reduce the game down to basic mechanics.

[BoS-Bibliotequa]

I voted other.

I think it could be a little mix of both.

It'd me nice to have it like EVE, with universal money, but local banks. The only problem is if the map takes 8 hours to cross, this can be ridiculously tedious. Have you ever had one of those 50-something gate trips in EVE? They're terrible. You have to sit at your computer doing nothing until you're near 0.5 space, then go watch about an hour of T.V, come back, get your shit, then go watch enough TV so you should be approaching that last 0.5 gate, and then keep playing.

I'd say if the map takes 8 hours to cross on foot, place something like a universal bank in every major city (there are what, 6 racial capitals?) You'd still have to have something like two-hour caravans to take your items to your home or guild city, but it wouldn't be anywhere near as bad as if it were local banks, and what you needed was on the other end of the map.

In addition, put extreme space limitations on those universal banks. WoW's basic bank actually wasn't too bad, 40 items I think? Maybe even less for DF. As someone said, maybe also have a larger guild vault.

Other than those capital banks though, larger-vaulted local banks ftw.

[Tharkon Fargor]

Universal money.

Items I don't really care about. But localy would make it a bit more interesting. But you should be able to "mail" your items.

Makes it more fun/easy. I don't care if it's not the most realistic option in an medieval world.

[dirtknap]

It'd me nice to have it like EVE, with universal money, but local banks. The only problem is if the map takes 8 hours to cross, this can be ridiculously tedious. Have you ever had one of those 50-something gate trips in EVE?

what are you trading that takes 50 jumps in empire space? running cargo from safe space through safe space to safe space is always going to be boring, in any game. this is the equivalent of grinding bear scraps in WOW for money, which is fine, if that's what you like doing.

how about a more realistic example: buying in a safe city/port, and shipping to a remote/contested port? there's going to be PVP on the way, and you're going to need protection.

also, in DF, we'll have ships, and it remains to be seen how fast/tedious/challenging ships are.

[Balroken]

UB's are going to ruin DF, oh well shit happens.

[Septus]

EVE == space-themed PVP sandbox game
DF == high fantasy-themed PVP sandbox game

i prefer fantasy games, but i respect EVE because of its depth & game design. EVE is a fantastic model for DF to follow because they are really similar games once you remove the space/fantasy theme and reduce the game down to basic mechanics.

I'm just curious, but if EVE allowed you a small bank box, would it have really destroyed the local markets? Seems to me that most of the cargo runs are pretty damn huge.

I understand that EVE might be the best game out for territorial conquest, but it's also pretty much the only one.

[Nero]

Not that I have anything else to add here, but;

EVE is shit. And they pretty much destroyed the economy by adding WTZ. Might as well have added UB to EVE when they did that.

Who needs universal banks when everyone can buy everything in the entire game in one easily reached location (namely Jita)?

EDIT -

But to stay on topic - not having UBs is pointless when you have teleportation anyway. That's pretty much UBs there, just with slightly more hassle. UB can be good, but the game has to be built around them, and DF clearly isn't.

[dirtknap]

Not that I have anything else to add here, but;

EVE is shit. And they pretty much destroyed the economy by adding WTZ. Might as well have added UB to EVE when they did that.

Who needs universal banks when everyone can buy everything in the entire game in one easily reached location (namely Jita)?

EDIT -

But to stay on topic - not having UBs is pointless when you have teleportation anyway. That's pretty much UBs there, just with slightly more hassle. UB can be good, but the game has to be built around them, and DF clearly isn't.

WTZ == Warp-to-zero, the ability to travel rapidly travel (warp) directly to an object instead of warp to near it, then have to fly the remainder. It was added for the sake of player convenience. In other words, EVE started with local banks only and long travel times and then tuned their game for player convenience rather than gimping the potential of the game economy by dropping local banks at the beginning.

which IMO is the smart thing to do in a sandbox game -- start with the system that gives the most potential for player-created content, then nerf the difficulty to add back the appropriate amount of convenience for the players.