Remember Bobby Sands!

[Jacques]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5j9lHWLfyc2n4CthIx1lom8qVMOlg

Once again the corporate media have smeared a legitimate national liberation movement as "terrorists" and "murderers". IIRC, America's founding fathers had no qualms about killing the British soldiers who illegally occupied their land, why is the media so quick to condemn modern day heroes who are doing exactly the same thing?

[JUAN_LOVE]

Tiocfaidh ár lá MY BROTHER!!!

OUR DAY WILL COME!!!

EDIT: RIRA got their first armed forces kill. BOOYAH ITS ON!

[smaweet]

The Real IRA are freedom fighters, why does nobody understand this
?

[JUAN_LOVE]

I know right. Anyway lets hope loyalists retaliate by pulling some stupid shit like killing random catholics so we get some fun shit going again.

[StarfishCT]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5j9lHWLfyc2n4CthIx1lom8qVMOlg

Once again the corporate media have smeared a legitimate national liberation movement as "terrorists" and "murderers". IIRC, America's founding fathers had no qualms about killing the British soldiers who illegally occupied their land, why is the media so quick to condemn modern day heroes who are doing exactly the same thing?

A murder for a just cause doesn't change the fact that it's murder.
Might I add that a just cause in one eye may not be a just cause in another's eye.

[garfu]

IMO Bobby Sands was a political hero.

[JUAN_LOVE]

A murder for a just cause doesn't change the fact that it's murder.

It's not murder if its for a just cause. It's a killing.

[Kagg]

Fight for freedom in Darkfall!! DEATH TO THE MURDER HERD!!!! DEATH TO TAXES!!!!

[Jacques]

A murder for a just cause doesn't change the fact that it's murder.

I guess you think that all sex is rape and that taxation is theft, right?

[JUAN_LOVE]

I guess you think that all sex is rape and that taxation is theft, right?

Taxation is theft.

[StarfishCT]

It's not murder if its for a just cause. It's a killing.

Citizen *a* kills a friend of citizen *b* for cause 'x'
Citizen *b* kills a friend of citizen *a* in retaliation and disbelief of cause 'x'.

Which is just?

[Incanam]

I guess you think that all sex is rape and that taxation is theft, right?

Wow, words cannot explain the lack of logic that lead you to this conclusion. It does not follow.

[JUAN_LOVE]

Brits kill Irish people for no reason.

RIRA kill brits to protect their people.

Which one is just?

[Donald Duck]

Citizen *a* kills a friend of citizen *b* for cause 'x'
Citizen *b* kills a friend of citizen *a* in retaliation and disbelief of cause 'x'.

Which is just?
Both of them are

[StarfishCT]

I guess you think that all sex is rape and that taxation is theft, right?

......................

[Jacques]

Which is just?

The one liberating the oppressed people of Ireland.

[IthroZada]

Taxation is theft.

Good luck on getting any roads or schools or police stations or fire stations built then.

[JUAN_LOVE]

Alright protestant scum we all know the RIRA are the good guys stop trolling.

[StarfishCT]

The one liberating the oppressed people of Ireland.

I was born into a catholic family of Northern Ireland. I don't feel oppressed. Anyway, how does the killing of innocents become just? Because Bobby Sands and other innocents on the side of the IRA lost their lives... that gives the right to murder more innocents for their cause?

[JUAN_LOVE]

I was born into a catholic family of Northern Ireland. I don't feel oppressed. Anyway, how does the killing of innocents become just? Because Bobby Sands and other innocents on the side of the IRA lost their lives... that gives the right to murder more innocents?

Woah woah hang on here for a minute, why are you talking about innocents being killed? These were members of the British army, nothing innocent about them.

We're fighting a war for liberation here and the only thing that is keeping us from gaining our rightful independence from Britain is the British Army and proddy scum like you.

[StarfishCT]

Woah woah hang on here for a minute, why are you talking about innocents being killed? These were members of the British army, nothing innocent about them.

Intelligent debate is hard to find on an internet forum. I guess I'll keep looking.

[rockyraccoon]

spike the tea supply with acid and smear poo on their biscuits. that'll show em!

[JUAN_LOVE]

What, you think British soldiers wouldn't kill irish for fun? Remember bloody sunday? Had those soldiers known it'd been IRA men in that car they would've killed them too, its kill or be killed in a war. Stop being so naive.

[rockyraccoon]

What, you think British soldiers wouldn't kill irish for fun? Remember bloody sunday? Had those soldiers known it'd been IRA men in that car they would've killed them too, its kill or be killed in a war. Stop being so naive.

never knew britain was so damn hard. tougher shit then iraq btw.

[JUAN_LOVE]

What? Yes, British troops are failing in Iraq as well as in Ireland. Whats your point?

[rockyraccoon]

What? Yes, British troops are failing in Iraq as well as in Ireland. Whats your point?

my point is that effete pussies kicked your ass and colonized you. the scottish protagonist from trainspotting said so.

[JUAN_LOVE]

my point is that effete pussies kicked your ass and colonized you. the scottish protagonist from trainspotting said so.

All that and you still can't defeat the IRA?

Lose an empire about it.

[rockyraccoon]

All that and you still can't defeat the IRA?

Lose an empire about it.

i'm not even british. i'm from canada.

alright you guys go do a bitch move and attack canadians because you couldn't defend your own homeland.

look up fenian brotherhood.

[JUAN_LOVE]

i'm not even british. i'm from canada.

alright you guys go do a bitch move and attack canadians because you couldn't defend your own homeland.

Irish Americans attacked British troops in Canada during the 19th century, something the Canadians didn't have the courage to do by the way. Should've joined us in the struggle instead of sucking crown cock, shouldn't you?

Enjoy your commonwealth cake.

[rockyraccoon]

Irish Americans attacked British troops in Canada during the 19th century, something the Canadians didn't have the courage to do by the way. Should've joined us in the struggle instead of sucking crown cock, shouldn't you?

Enjoy your commonwealth cake.

/agreed. i fucking hate swearing allegiance to the queen every goddamn morning. when's the last time britain did anything for canada? we helped them kick german ass twice and they do nothing to show for it except give us a useless rock.

screw this constitutional monarchy. rule of law republic all the way!

[JUAN_LOVE]

/agreed. i fucking hate swearing allegiance to the queen every goddamn morning. when's the last time britain did anything for canada? we helped them kick german ass twice and they do nothing to show for it except give us a useless rock.

screw this constitutional monarchy. rule of law republic all the way!

So why were you all on the queens nuts before?

[rockyraccoon]

So why were you all on the queens nuts before?

no i was going on about how the irish attacked canada. uncalled for dammit.

i only wished canada joined the US in the revolution so we won't be associated with a homosexual image which is english.

[JUAN_LOVE]

no i was going on about how the irish attacked canada. uncalled for dammit.

i only wished canada joined the US in the revolution so we won't be associated with a homosexual image which is english.

We attacked British forces, you were under British control. Feel free to come to Northern Ireland and attack British forces, I won't be offended.

[rockyraccoon]

We attacked British forces, you were under British control. Feel free to come to Northern Ireland and attack British forces, I won't be offended.

No thanks, I want british forces to continue being there just to cause chaos and the lulz! I want more of that everywhere because peace and non-violence makes everyone turn into pussies.

why do you guys want to reunite anyways? i thought the protestants and catholics hated each other.

[JUAN_LOVE]

No thanks, I want british forces to continue being there just to cause chaos and the lulz! I want more of that everywhere because peace and non-violence makes everyone turn into pussies.

why do you guys want to reunite anyways? i thought the protestants and catholics hated each other.

I don't hate protestants, only orange scum. And the rest of Ireland is catholic, as am I.

[StarfishCT]

I don't hate protestants, only orange scum. And the rest of Ireland is catholic, as am I.

Didn't know that, thanks for the incredible insight.

[rockyraccoon]

I don't hate protestants, only orange scum. And the rest of Ireland is catholic, as am I.

oh now i know where all your anger and hate comes from. life's bitter when your molested by your priest.

[JUAN_LOVE]

Didn't know that, thanks for the incredible insight.

Read his post proddy.

[StarfishCT]

Read his post proddy.

Could a troll be more obvious? I think not. I was expecting more.

[Ozzy Wrong]

I usually stay out of political threads, but I'm going to contribute to this one by saying Bobby Sands is a sexy name.

[StarfishCT]

I usually stay out of political threads, but I'm going to contribute to this one by saying Bobby Sands is a sexy name.

You've contributed more than the past 30 or so posts. Congratulations.

[Ozzy Wrong]

You've contributed more than the past 30 or so posts. Congratulations.

Shut up, Patrick.

[Ise]

I thought the issue was the colonies facing 'taxation without representation" that caused the separation from Great Britain.

[Charlie9]

The Real IRA are freedom fighters, why does nobody understand this
?

Because a little while ago the IRA was bombing and assassinating people left and right for no reason, they used similar tactics to what the radicalists in Iraq and Afghanistan are using now. OP show me were you saw "America" calling the RIRA a terrorist group, we could care less. Maybe Google News cares but mainstream media doesn't even reference them.

[Badem]

let me guess

you are the same people who think Patrick mcGuiness etc are traitors to the cause as they prefer to do the negotiation around the table instead of by killing people?

In regards to Bloody Sunday, that is and always will be a black mark on both the Irish and the British Army

but to be honest, you fucked with the Para's and considering they only have two orders, 'Advance' and 'defend' you we just asking for a shoot up by taking potshots at them, this is what generally tends to happen when you start shooting at trained soldiers who have no compunction about returning fire

Just a shame that here in blightly we refuse to recognise the legitimacy of RIRA as we did PIRA, feel free to shoot or bomb us, you did it for the last 40-50 years and it didnt bother us then , it sure as shit wont bother us now, and to cap it off all you ahve done is given us more reason to expand Military intelligence into Ireland

[chewbaccasdad]

So many fucking retards in this thread.

The people of Northern Ireland aren't being oppressed. Life in Northern Ireland is better than it has ever been and the only reason why it has become so prosperous is due to the cessation of violence.

The people of Northern Ireland cost the British treasury more money per head than in any other region of the UK. If a united Ireland was achieved, watch as your benefits dry up, as your jobs go to the wall etc.

And anyone saying that the RIRA are 'freedom fighters' clearly doesn't have a fucking clue about the situation here. The RIRA are working to destabilize a democratically elected political system against the will of the majority of the populace. That isn't fighting for freedom, that is extremism, making the RIRA just the same as countless other misguided and ineffective terrorist groups around the world. They're just a jumped up Animal Liberation Front lol.

The RIRA doesn't have the support of any significant section of the Northern Irish community, which is what you need to wage a campaign of this type. It's only a matter of time until their own communities expose them, or they get so deeply inflitrated by undercover agents that they can no longer function.

TL;DR - RIRA, walk out into a field, and put your guns to your heads and pull the trigger, because you're not fucking wanted here.

And BTW, I'm a Catholic with Nationalist leanings.

[JUAN_LOVE]

let me guess

you are the same people who think Patrick mcGuiness etc are traitors to the cause as they prefer to do the negotiation around the table instead of by killing people?

In regards to Bloody Sunday, that is and always will be a black mark on both the Irish and the British Army

but to be honest, you fucked with the Para's and considering they only have two orders, 'Advance' and 'defend' you we just asking for a shoot up by taking potshots at them, this is what generally tends to happen when you start shooting at trained soldiers who have no compunction about returning fire

Just a shame that here in blightly we refuse to recognise the legitimacy of RIRA as we did PIRA, feel free to shoot or bomb us, you did it for the last 40-50 years and it didnt bother us then , it sure as shit wont bother us now, and to cap it off all you ahve done is given us more reason to expand Military intelligence into Ireland

You say its a black mark and then you go on to defend it? And the bombings didn't bother you, which is why you released all IRA prisoners, because the bombings didn't bother you and you wouldn't do anything to get them to stop?

As for traitors within the "irish republican community" the PIRA/Sinn Fein have turned into freestaters and the only men the Irish people can trust now are the RIRA/CIRA and the 32CSM/Republican Sinn Fein.

At the poster above:

You're obviously not a nationalist, you're a gullible kid and most likely protestant and living on Shankill road. If you weren't you'd realize that through the "peace process" will never lead to a united Ireland and that the only way we can free our lands is to pick up our weapons and fight our oppressors. The real provo's are all in the Continuity IRA and Real IRA anyway we just got rid of the freeloaders, British spies and snake politicians who only wanted attention.

[chewbaccasdad]

You say its a black mark and then you go on to defend it? And the bombings didn't bother you, which is why you released all IRA prisoners, because the bombings didn't bother you and you wouldn't do anything to get them to stop?

As for traitors within the "irish republican community" the PIRA/Sinn Fein have turned into freestaters and the only men the Irish people can trust now are the RIRA/CIRA and the 32CSM/Republican Sinn Fein.

You honestly think political prisoners were released to stop the bombings? You are truly retarded. Political prisoners were a major obstacle to progress in Northern Ireland, and the only way to deal with it was to release those prisoners on both sides of the divide.

And why would anyone trust R/CIRA, or Republican Sinn Fein, whenever their agenda goes against that of the majority of the populace of Northern Ireland? Hate to point this out to you, but this isn't 1972, and things are very different.

[JUAN_LOVE]

You honestly think political prisoners were released to stop the bombings? You are truly retarded. Political prisoners were a major obstacle to progress in Northern Ireland, and the only way to deal with it was to release those prisoners on both sides of the divide.

And why would anyone trust R/CIRA, or Republican Sinn Fein, whenever their agenda goes against that of the majority of the populace of Northern Ireland? Hate to point this out to you, but this isn't 1972, and things are very different.

LOL

So the prisoners were a "major obstacle to progress" and thats why they were released, incidently just after the Good Friday agreeement which had nothing to do with the release of the prisoners, nothing at all. The prisoners not a major obstacle during the 70's or 80's, no, never. And I'm the stupid one, right?

And just because the majority of the people think a certain way that is right? A majority of all people are stupid and will believe whatever they're told. But you answered your own question: We should trust the 32CSM and the Republican Sinn Fein because they are not populists, even though all the slacker nationalists have long since moved on to better things than fighting for freedom they still stay true to their beliefs. Thats why you should trust them.

[chewbaccasdad]

You're obviously not a nationalist, you're a gullible kid and most likely protestant and living on Shankill road. If you weren't you'd realize that through the "peace process" will never lead to a united Ireland and that the only way we can free our lands is to pick up our weapons and fight our oppressors. The real provo's are all in the Continuity IRA and Real IRA anyway we just got rid of the freeloaders, British spies and snake politicians who only wanted attention.

In what way are you being oppressed? That's a fantastic word that can be thrown around, but tell me, exactly, in what way are you being oppressed?

And besides, how many C/RIRA are there? Like 25? You think you've just got rid of the 'British spies'? Honey, you've just brought a shit storm down on you, and I sincerely do hope you drown.

Do you honestly think that shooting soldiers is going to achieve a united Ireland? If you do, then you are very sad and naive. Soldiers have become such a rarity on our streets, that you have to wait outside their bases until they come out, and yet you somehow think you are being oppressed.

The bottom line is, no-one in all of Ireland, north and south has any tolerance for you people or your methods. We've moved on. The R/CIRA represent a relic of the past, a relic which will be swept away because you won't find footing.

I'm simply starting to think you are a misguided kid. Anyone who lived through any significant part of the Troubles, or could accurately see how things have improved since the peace process began would not want a return to the old days.

You are aware also, that repeated references to Protestants, or Proddy or Prods paints you as being about 12 years old. I thought that one of the great claims of the Republican movement was that it was non-sectarian. Your problem was with the British, not Protestants. Didn't your uncle tell you that when he was filling your head with all this 'righteous struggle' shite?

Now, if I'd called you a fenian bastard or a taig, I could see your point, but I had enough of that as a kid.

[chewbaccasdad]

LOL

So the prisoners were a "major obstacle to progress" and thats why they were released, incidently just after the Good Friday agreeement which had nothing to do with the release of the prisoners, nothing at all. The prisoners not a major obstacle during the 70's or 80's, no, never. And I'm the stupid one, right?

Northern Ireland couldn't grow into a post conflict society without the release of prisoners. The governments of the 70's and 80's had no concern for this, they were more concerned with enforcing some of their own misguided policies. The Labour government did recognize this however, and made the decision that they would need to be released. And they were released after the IRA ceasefire.

And just because the majority of the people think a certain way that is right? A majority of all people are stupid and will believe whatever they're told. But you answered your own question: We should trust the 32CSM and the Republican Sinn Fein because they are not populists, even though all the slacker nationalists have long since moved on to better things than fighting for freedom they still stay true to their beliefs. Thats why you should trust them.

In a democracy, it is the will of the majority that us right. So if the majority of people in Ireland would rather live in peace than fight, then so be it. If the people you appear to idolise don't understand this, then they should fuck off.

Simple as that.

Anyway, I'm done with this thread. Your rhetoric is just as bad as Paisley's in the 80's.

[Badem]

In what way are you being oppressed? That's a fantastic word that can be thrown around, but tell me, exactly, in what way are you being oppressed?

And besides, how many C/RIRA are there? Like 25? You think you've just got rid of the 'British spies'? Honey, you've just brought a shit storm down on you, and I sincerely do hope you drown.

Do you honestly think that shooting soldiers is going to achieve a united Ireland? If you do, then you are very sad and naive. Soldiers have become such a rarity on our streets, that you have to wait outside their bases until they come out, and yet you somehow think you are being oppressed.

The bottom line is, no-one in all of Ireland, north and south has any tolerance for you people or your methods. We've moved on. The R/CIRA represent a relic of the past, a relic which will be swept away because you won't find footing.

I'm simply starting to think you are a misguided kid. Anyone who lived through any significant part of the Troubles, or could accurately see how things have improved since the peace process began would not want a return to the old days.

You are aware also, that repeated references to Protestants, or Proddy or Prods paints you as being about 12 years old. I thought that one of the great claims of the Republican movement was that it was non-sectarian. Your problem was with the British, not Protestants. Didn't your uncle tell you that when he was filling your head with all this 'righteous struggle' shite?

Now, if I'd called you a fenian bastard or a taig, I could see your point, but I had enough of that as a kid.


I like this reply

I think the reaction of the population both north and south of Ireland have painted the real feelings of the murder of the soldiers.

I also noted in the papers today a passing reference to a 300lbs car bomb found behind a school in ireland?

It is as you said, they had to attack the soldiers outside their base in order to get to them, they were ( as a rule) all tucked up and ready to fly out to Afghanistan today, sadly with 4 empty seats now.

Their can never be any justification for shooting innocents, as I said earlier, Bloody Sunday is a black mark against the british army, the truth will never be fully known as to what happened that day, except that 'innocents' lost their lives.

The true measure of a nation and a person is to learn from those mistakes, accept they dont work and move ontowards a mutual settlement and future than dwell on the past

I can anticipate it wont take long for the killers to be found and caught, sadly Juan_love will be misguided into thinking they are patriots to the cause and that the englishmust be driven out and destroyed at all costs

As a n englishman visiting RoI I found the people their to be very friendly, even when a kis brought a wooden gun in with 'Fuck teh English' adn ;IRA rule' scrawled all over it, heck I was even asked what my stance was on the troubles, I simply replied ' I dont know the cause or teh history of it and I choose not to vilify any person for it, but instead hope people can work out their differences and put it behind them' I got rewarded with a good work out with my irish gitlfriend that night

ahh happy days

[tallefred]

Are they terrorists or guerrillas? By which I mean- do they target civilians or government buildings/military? If they are guerrillas more power to them.

[Badem]

Are they terrorists or guerrillas? By which I mean- do they target civilians or government buildings/military? If they are guerrillas more power to them.

they tend to target civilians
it tends nnot to really bother the british and we have no intention of elvating them to terrorists, since that would drop US in the shit as they have people who fund the IRA in the USA and it would just be the biggest clusterfuck ever

For examples of the IRA bombing campaign

Omagh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omagh_bombing)
Warrington (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrington_bomb_attacks)

[JUAN_LOVE]

Northern Ireland couldn't grow into a post conflict society without the release of prisoners. The governments of the 70's and 80's had no concern for this, they were more concerned with enforcing some of their own misguided policies. The Labour government did recognize this however, and made the decision that they would need to be released. And they were released after the IRA ceasefire.



In a democracy, it is the will of the majority that us right. So if the majority of people in Ireland would rather live in peace than fight, then so be it. If the people you appear to idolise don't understand this, then they should fuck off.

Simple as that.

Anyway, I'm done with this thread. Your rhetoric is just as bad as Paisley's in the 80's.

Right and wrong should never be considered subjective. If you think right and wrong is subjective you might as well drop the concept straight away.

Your entire argument, that in a democracy the majority is always right, is retarded. The will of the majority is what is enacted in a democracy, it has nothing to do with right and wrong. I hate to point out the obvious here, but by your logic Hitler and everything the nazi party stood for would be "right".

The truth is most of the time the majority is wrong, people are easily influenced by charismatic politicians and most people think with their heart, not their head.

The RIRA are undoubtedly right. Britain has oppressed us for hundreds of years and they still excercise their power over us. The people of Northern Ireland are Irish, not British. They should be a part of Ireland, not Britain. The fact that we have a foreign government dictating our law and occupying our land is why I claim we are being oppressed and why we must return to armed struggle. You call me naive to think killing British soldiers won't make them finally leave Northern Ireland; If killing their soldiers and fighting them doesn't work how the fuck will a "peace-process" aka Sinn Fein gets to play important do?

As a final note, the release of political prisoners (PIRA/INLA members as well as alot of loyalist murderers, who unlike the IRA, were terrorists) was because the PIRA sold out and promised decomission, not because of some fundamental change in government policy. They have one policy, to keep N.I under British control. So far they are doing a good job, they even have a "Republican" defending them and sucking their cocks on an online forum. The Republican movement was always stupid, now its not popular to fight for freedom anymore and Sinn Fein are sounding like loyalists.

[JUAN_LOVE]

they tend to target civilians
it tends nnot to really bother the british and we have no intention of elvating them to terrorists, since that would drop US in the shit as they have people who fund the IRA in the USA and it would just be the biggest clusterfuck ever

For examples of the IRA bombing campaign

Omagh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omagh_bombing)
Warrington (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrington_bomb_attacks)

the IRA has never targeted civilians, during both those attacks it was the fault of the police that civilians died. They even pushed them towards the bomb site with the Omagh bomb.

[Badem]

the IRA has never targeted civilians, during both those attacks it was the fault of the police that civilians died. They even pushed them towards the bomb site with the Omagh bomb.

what?

are you fucking stupid? 'has never targetted civilains'

ok here are the warnings that were received

At 14:32, a warning was telephoned to Ulster Television saying "There's a bomb, courthouse, Omagh, main street, 500lb, explosion 30 minutes."
the bomb was nowhere near the courthouse

The office received a second warning saying "Bomb, Omagh town, 15 minutes" one minute later.
so tow bomb threats in the space of as many minutes with different times and locations, even if the Guardia had got there in time there is no way the could have 1) Known the exact location of the bomb or 2) evacuated people

The next minute, the Coleraine office of the Samaritans charity received a call stating that a bomb would go off on "main street" about 200 yards (180 m) from the courthouse.

BBC News stated that the police "were clearing an area near the local courthouse, 40 minutes after receiving a telephone warning, when the bomb detonated. But the warning was unclear and the wrong area was evacuated." The warnings mentioned "main street" when no actual "Main Street" existed in Omagh at that time, although Market Street was the main shopping street in the town. The nature of the warnings led the police to move people over to the area where the bomb was actually placed. The courthouse is roughly 400 meters from the spot where the car armed with the explosive device was parked

In a statement on the same day as the bombing, RUC Chief Constable Ronnie Flanagan accused the RIRA of trying to deliberately direct civilians to the bombing site. British government prosecutor Gordon Kerr QC has called the warnings "not only wrong but... meaningless" and stated that the nature of the warnings made it inevitable that the evacuations would lead to the bomb site.The RIRA has strongly denied that they intended to target civilians. They have also stated that the warnings were not intended to lead people to the bombing site. During the 2003 Special Criminal Court trial of RIRA director Michael McKevitt, witnesses for the prosecution stated that the inaccurate warnings were accidental.


No group claimed responsibility on the day of the attack, but the RUC suspected the RIRA. The RIRA had carried out a car bombing in Banbridge, County Down two weeks before the Omagh bombing. Three days after the attack, the RIRA claimed responsibility and apologised for the attack. On 7 February 2008, an RIRA spokesman stated that "The IRA had minimal involvement in Omagh. Our code word was used nothing more. To have stated this at the time would have been lost in an understandable wave of emotion" and "Omagh was an absolute tragedy. Any loss of civilian life is regrettable."


you really need to stop being such a fricken eejit, seriously

and for the warrington bombings

The first attack took place on 26 February 1993. Three devices exploded at the gasworks causing extensive damage. A police officer, PC Mark Toker, was shot and injured after stopping a van connected to the attacks, and a car was hijacked.

At 11:58am on 20 March 1993, the telephone help charity The Samaritans received a coded message that a bomb was going to be detonated outside the Boots shop in Liverpool, fifteen miles away from Warrington. Merseyside Police investigated, and also warned the Cheshire Constabulary (who patrolled Warrington) of the threat, but it was too late to evacuate. At 12:12pm two bombs exploded, one outside Boots on Bridge Street and one outside the Argos catalogue store. It later turned out that the bombs had been placed inside cast-iron litter bins, causing large amounts of shrapnel.

Buses were organised to ferry people away from the scene and 20 paramedics and crews from 17 ambulances were sent to deal with the aftermath.

Eyewitnesses of the time said that "the first explosion drove panicking shoppers into the path of the next blast just seconds later."

There were two fatalities from the blast.

Three-year-old Johnathan Ball died at the scene, accompanied by his babysitter, who survived.

The second victim, 12-year-old Tim Parry, survived the impact with multiple injuries, but died on 24 March 1993 when doctors switched his life support machine off, having asked permission to do so from his family after a series of tests had found minimal brain activity

54 other people were injured, four of them seriously.

[Sqarak]

The RIRA are undoubtedly right. Britain has oppressed us for hundreds of years and they still excercise their power over us. The people of Northern Ireland are Irish, not British. They should be a part of Ireland, not Britain. The fact that we have a foreign government dictating our law and occupying our land is why I claim we are being oppressed and why we must return to armed struggle. You call me naive to think killing British soldiers won't make them.

I completely agree that Britain invaded Northern Ireland, but the rest of your argument is rather hopelessly romantic, shortsighted and bordering near dogmatic.
Lets say you get the British soldiers out, then what? You suddenly get utopia or will you get the same political corrupt bullshit dressed in a different jacket?

What about the endless Catholic/ Protestant jabbering, you do realize that the rest of Europe gave up on it a while ago? Will it suddenly disappear in a cloud happiness in Northern Ireland?

What about other issues? Pro EU or No EU? Britain will still be a neighbor, time to forgive or time for little payback?

Getting guns and bombs to kill people is a no-brainer....long term planning is not that easy. That's why dumping violence and spend your time on long term planning might be more worthwhile.

[Signus]

I know right. Anyway lets hope loyalists retaliate by pulling some stupid shit like killing random catholics so we get some fun shit going again.

No, I can't possibly understand how they got a bad reputation!

[JUAN_LOVE]

I completely agree that Britain invaded Northern Ireland, but the rest of your argument is rather hopelessly romantic, shortsighted and bordering near dogmatic.
Lets say you get the British soldiers out, then what? You suddenly get utopia or will you get the same political corrupt bullshit dressed in a different jacket?

What about the endless Catholic/ Protestant jabbering, you do realize that the rest of Europe gave up on it a while ago? Will it suddenly disappear in a cloud happiness in Northern Ireland?

What about other issues? Pro EU or No EU? Britain will still be a neighbor, time to forgive or time for little payback?

Getting guns and bombs to kill people is a no-brainer....long term planning is not that easy. That's why dumping violence and spend your time on long term planning might be more worthwhile.

The long term future of northern Ireland should be planned by the Irish, not the British, is what I'm saying.

[Badem]

The long term future of northern Ireland should be planned by the Irish, not the British, is what I'm saying.

isnt it the choice of the majority to decide who they are ruled by? after all Stormont is open for business, you elect you own 'leaders' how would it be any different to how it is?

The majority of Northern Ireland want british rule, otherwise they would have sided with the IRA...oh wait... IRA dont like Protestants do they.....

NI basically has a much self rule as Wales and Scotland do, you choose your elected leaders to run your country, they just have a bigger central government to report to, and they hardly stop you doing as you wish, i mean devolution seems to be working for them, free prescriptions, free University places, dual language signs

am i missing something then?

[JUAN_LOVE]

isnt it the choice of the majority to decide who they are ruled by? after all Stormont is open for business, you elect you own 'leaders' how would it be any different to how it is?

The majority of Northern Ireland want british rule, otherwise they would have sided with the IRA...oh wait... IRA dont like Protestants do they.....

NI basically has a much self rule as Wales and Scotland do, you choose your elected leaders to run your country, they just have a bigger central government to report to, and they hardly stop you doing as you wish, i mean devolution seems to be working for them, free prescriptions, free University places, dual language signs

am i missing something then?

I call you people prods like one would call someone a faggot. Being a prod has little to do with religion, as does being a faggot have little to do with homosexuality.

The IRA is not secterian and has had many protestant volunteers, the only secterians in Ireland are the loyalist terrorists.

Scotland and Wales hardly have any real self-rule, nor does Northern Ireland. Policy is dictated in London, and as for "free Universities and prescriptions", why would we want your British socialism which we pay for with our tax money?

As for "the majority wishes to remain British", most protestants have been manipulated by the UDA and other groups into thinking the IRA are after them and not the British army.

[Badem]

I call you people prods like one would call someone a faggot. Being a prod has little to do with religion, as does being a faggot have little to do with homosexuality.

The IRA is not secterian and has had many protestant volunteers, the only secterians in Ireland are the loyalist terrorists.

Scotland and Wales hardly have any real self-rule, nor does Northern Ireland. Policy is dictated in London, and as for "free Universities and prescriptions", why would we want your British socialism which we pay for with our tax money?

As for "the majority wishes to remain British", most protestants have been manipulated by the UDA and other groups into thinking the IRA are after them and not the British army.

ahh now we are into the Tinfoil Hat area, enjoy your time there

BTW with devolution of Wales and Scotland they keep all their taxes and also get a nice subsidy from the English government each year.

Like someone said before, what are you expecting to happen? a sudden Utopia of blissful happiness? Pro EU or Anti EU? or do you jsut tear up the law book and start afresh?

You sir are delusional, I bid you good day, the men in white coats will be along for you shortly, enjoy your stay in The Maze

[JUAN_LOVE]

ahh now we are into the Tinfoil Hat area, enjoy your time there

BTW with devolution of Wales and Scotland they keep all their taxes and also get a nice subsidy from the English government each year.

Like someone said before, what are you expecting to happen? a sudden Utopia of blissful happiness? Pro EU or Anti EU? or do you jsut tear up the law book and start afresh?

You sir are delusional, I bid you good day, the men in white coats will be along for you shortly, enjoy your stay in The Maze

What? Tinfoil hat?

Is it not true that loyalist propaganda is what has many so many Northern Irish protestants scared of catholics and nationalists?

As for the EU, why do you keep asking about the EU? I'm obviously against the EU and I believe the republic should get out of it, as would any sane person.

There will not be a utopia once we are freed from Britain, but we will live in our own country which we can be proud of and work on the rest of the problems we're facing from there.

Judging by what you've been writting so far you're some kind of patriotic retarded brit, so don't even try to call me delusional. You're delusional if you think the British empire can survive, Britannia doesn't rule the waves any more, so why don't you just give up N.I?

[Badem]

Wait what..... we dont rule the waves? damn the feckers never told me.......


Anyway my understanding is that the reason NI wants UK rule is

Northern Ireland did not separate from the South until William Gladstone presented, in 1886, his proposal for home rule in Ireland. The Protestants in the North feared domination by the Catholic majority. Industry, moreover, was concentrated in the North and dependent on the British market. When World War I began, civil war threatened between the regions. Northern Ireland, however, did not become a political entity until the six counties accepted the Home Rule Bill of 1920. This set up a semiautonomous parliament in Belfast and a Crown-appointed governor advised by a cabinet of the prime minister and 8 ministers, as well as a 12-member representation in the House of Commons in London.


So we are imply doing what the NI people want

[tallefred]

they tend to target civilians
it tends nnot to really bother the british and we have no intention of elvating them to terrorists, since that would drop US in the shit as they have people who fund the IRA in the USA and it would just be the biggest clusterfuck ever

For examples of the IRA bombing campaign

Omagh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omagh_bombing)
Warrington (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrington_bomb_attacks)

Ok, after reading through those entries it appears that they do indeed target civilians. Both of those bombs were in civilian centers and the police were not given enough warning to evacuate.

As a kid I used to sympathize with the IRA since my mother's family is Irish Catholic, but I never really knew much about what was going on. Kind of like some Muslim kid in the U.S. sympathizing with Hamas. Fuck the IRA, they aren't a "paramilitary organization", they are terrorists.

[Badem]

just a bit more for those wanting to understand the hostility between people

When the Republic of Ireland gained sovereignty in 1922, relations improved between North and South, although the Irish Republican Army (IRA), outlawed in recent years, continued the struggle to end the partition of Ireland. In 1966–1969, rioting and street fighting between Protestants and Catholics occurred in Londonderry, fomented by extremist nationalist Protestants, who feared the Catholics might attain a local majority, and by Catholics demonstrating for civil rights. These confrontations became known as “the Troubles.”

The religious communities, Catholic and Protestant, became hostile armed camps. British troops were brought in to separate them but themselves became a target of Catholics, particularly by the IRA, which by this time had turned into a full-fledged terrorist movement. The goal of the IRA was to eject the British and unify Northern Ireland with the Irish Republic to the south. The Protestants remained tenaciously loyal to the United Kingdom, and various Protestant terrorist organizations pursued the Unionist cause through violence. Various attempts at representational government and power-sharing foundered during the 1970s, and both sides were further polarized. Direct rule from London and the presence of British troops failed to stop the violence.

In Oct. 1977, the 1976 Nobel Peace Prize was awarded to Mairead Corrigan and Betty Williams, founders of the Community of Peace People, a nonsectarian organization dedicated to creating peace in Northern Ireland. Intermittent violence continued, however, and on Aug. 27, 1979, an IRA bomb killed Lord Mountbatten as he was sailing off southern Ireland. This incident heightened tensions. Catholic protests over the death of IRA hunger striker Bobby Sands in 1981 fueled more violence. Riots, sniper fire, and terrorist attacks killed more than 3,200 people between 1969 and 1998. Among the attempts at reconciliation undertaken during the 1980s was the Anglo-Irish Agreement (1985), which, to the dismay of Unionists, marked the first time the Republic of Ireland had been given an official consultative role in the affairs of the province.

In 1997, Northern Ireland made a significant step in the direction of stemming sectarian strife. The first formal peace talks began on Oct. 6 with representatives of eight major Northern Irish political parties participating, a feat that in itself required three years of negotiations. Two smaller Protestant parties, including extremist Ian Paisley's Democratic Unionists, boycotted the talks. For the first time, Sinn Fein, the political wing of the IRA, won two seats in the British parliament, which went to Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams and his second-in-command, Martin McGuinness. Although the election strengthened the IRA's political legitimacy, it was the IRA's resumption of the 17-month cease-fire, which had collapsed in Feb. 1996, that gained them a place at the negotiating table.

A landmark settlement, the Good Friday Agreement of April 10, 1998, came after 19 months of intensive negotiations. The accord called for Protestants to share political power with the minority Catholics, and it gave the Republic of Ireland a voice in Northern Irish affairs. In turn, Catholics were to suspend the goal of a united Ireland—a territorial claim that was the raison d'être of the IRA and was written into the Irish Republic's constitution—unless the largely Protestant North voted in favor of such an arrangement, an unlikely occurrence.

The resounding commitment to the settlement was demonstrated in a dual referendum on May 22, 1998: the North approved the accord by a vote of 71% to 29%, and in the Irish Republic 94% favored it. In October, the Nobel Peace Prize was awarded to John Hume and David Trimble, leaders of the largest Catholic and Protestant political parties, an incentive for all sides to ensure that this time the peace would last.

In Dec. 1998 the rival Northern Ireland politicians agreed on the organization and contents of the new coalition government, but in June 1999, the peace process again hit an impasse when the IRA refused to disarm prior to the Assembly of Northern Ireland's new provincial cabinet. Sinn Fein insisted that the IRA would only begin giving up its illegal weapons after the formation of the new government; Unionists demanded disarmament first. As a result, the Ulster Unionists boycotted the Assembly session that would have nominated the cabinet to run the new coalition government. The nascent Northern Irish government was stillborn in July 1999.

Subsequent talks on the agreement, which would have ended three decades of direct rule from London, seemed to go nowhere. Finally, at the end of November, David Trimble, leader of the Ulster Unionists, abandoned the seemingly sacrosanct “no guns, no government” position and took a difficult leap of faith in agreeing to form a government prior to Sinn Fein's disarmament. If the IRA did not begin the destruction of their weapons by Jan. 31, 2000, however, the Ulster Unionists threatened to withdraw from the Northern Irish parliament, shutting down the new government. With the compromise in place, this government was quickly formed, and on Dec. 2, 1999, the British government formally transferred governing power to the Northern Irish parliament. David Trimble became first minister. Two leaders of Sinn Fein, Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness, received seats in the 4-party 12-member parliament. But by the deadline, Sinn Fein had made little progress toward disarmament. As a result, the British government suspended parliament on Feb. 12, 2000, and once again imposed direct rule. In July 2001, after issuing one last ultimatum to the IRA to begin destroying its weapons stores, Ulster Unionist leader Trimble resigned his post as first minister.

Following Trimble's departure, the IRA offered another vague and open-ended disarmament plan, only to withdraw it. But on Oct. 23, days before Britain was to suspend the Assembly, Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams dramatically announced that the IRA had indeed begun disarming. As a result, Trimble was reelected as first minister.

On April 8, 2002, international weapons inspectors announced that the IRA had put more stockpiled munitions “beyond use,” the euphemistic phrase applied to disarmament in the negotiations. British and Irish leaders hoped that Protestant paramilitary groups would also begin to surrender their weapons. The Council on Foreign Relations has estimated that Protestant paramilitary groups have been responsible for 30% of the civilian deaths in the Northern Irish conflict. The two main Protestant vigilante groups are the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) and the Ulster Defence Association (UDA). Strongest during the 1970s, their ranks have since diminished. While Protestant paramilitaries have observed a cease-fire since the IRA declared one, none of these groups have made any moves toward surrendering their weapons as stipulated by the Good Friday Agreement

On Oct. 14, the British government again assumed direct rule of Northern Ireland, after the Unionists threatened to quit the Assembly in protest of suspected spying activity by the IRA. In March and April 2003, negotiations were again under way to reinstate the Northern Ireland Assembly. But Sinn Fein's vague language, weakly pledging that its “strategies and disciplines will not be inconsistent with the Good Friday Agreement,” caused Tony Blair to challenge Sinn Fein once and for all to make a clear, unambiguous pledge to renounce using the paramilitary for political means. According to the New York Times (April 24, 2003), “virtually every newspaper in Britain and Ireland has editorialized in favor of full disarmament, and the Irish government, traditionally sympathetic to Sinn Fein, is almost as adamant about the matter as London is.”

In Nov. 2003 legislative elections, the Ulster Unionists and other moderates lost out to Northern Ireland's extremist parties: Ian Paisley's Democratic Unionists and Sinn Fein. Power sharing between these antithetical parties was out of the question.

A $50 million bank robbery in Dec. 2004 was linked to the IRA, and Sinn Fein's legitimacy as a political organization suffered a severe setback. The brutal murder in Jan. 2005 of Belfast Catholic Robert McCartney by the IRA, and the campaign by his five sisters to hold the IRA accountable, further tarnished the IRA's standing, even in Catholic communities that had once been IRA strongholds.

On July 28, 2005, the IRA announced that it was entering a new era in which it would unequivocally relinquish violence, give up its arms, and pursue its aims exclusively through political means. In late September, the Irish Republican Army made good on its promise to give up all its weapons, and their disarmament was verified by an international mediator. Some Protestant groups, however, continued to doubt the veracity of the IRA's claims. In Feb. 2006, the Independent Monitoring Commission (IMC), a watchdog agency monitoring Northern Irish paramilitary groups, reported that although the IRA “seems to be moving in the right direction,” dissident republican paramilitaries are still engaged in violence and crime. On May 15, Northern Ireland's political parties were given six months (to Nov. 24) to come up with a power-sharing government or else sovereignty would revert indefinitely to the British government.

Shortly after parliamentary elections in March 2007, Gerry Adams, the leader of Sinn Fein, and Rev. Ian Paisley, the head of the Democratic Unionist Party, met face to face for the first time and hashed out an agreement for a power-sharing government. The historic deal was put into place in May, when Paisley and McGuinness were sworn in as leader and deputy leader, respectively, of the Northern Ireland executive government, thus ending direct rule from London.



so there you have it, no longer direct rule from the UK but your own autonomous government, with dual power sharing

[Wind4Air]

I guess you think that all sex is rape and that taxation is theft, right?

Of coruse sex is rape.

Nobody poops but you and that's consintrated evil coming out the back of you!


:D It's the catholic way of life! :D

[JUAN_LOVE]

Ok, after reading through those entries it appears that they do indeed target civilians. Both of those bombs were in civilian centers and the police were not given enough warning to evacuate.

As a kid I used to sympathize with the IRA since my mother's family is Irish Catholic, but I never really knew much about what was going on. Kind of like some Muslim kid in the U.S. sympathizing with Hamas. Fuck the IRA, they aren't a "paramilitary organization", they are terrorists.

They bomb commercial institutions to cause the british economic loss, not to kill people. Civilians will always die in war, which is what it is, but most of the time it was the RUC's fault. Fucktards can't do anything right and intentionally disregarded warnings just to get bad press for the IRA.

[MGee]

Do you even know what you support anymore? why should your radicals try to speak for a group of people who dont even like you? it causes more problems than it solves.

seems like too much trouble for a nothin much more than mud and grass.

[JUAN_LOVE]

Do you even know what you support anymore? why should your radicals try to speak for a group of people who dont even like you? it causes more problems than it solves.

seems like too much trouble for a nothin much more than mud and grass.

I support a free and independent united Ireland. What do you support, over in Canada?

[Kusghuul]

Bobby Sands didn't kill anyone.

[tallefred]

They bomb commercial institutions to cause the british economic loss, not to kill people. Civilians will always die in war, which is what it is, but most of the time it was the RUC's fault. Fucktards can't do anything right and intentionally disregarded warnings just to get bad press for the IRA.

That is BULLSHIT and you know it. The fact that you can even rationalize such a thing sickens me. If they ever come to power you're going to have another Cuba, and you'll fucking deserve for it being a heartless piece of shit with absolutely no concern for the suffering of others as long as you get your fucking united Ireland.

I support the idea of a united Ireland, as long as that's what the people want (which it sounds like it isn't). I do NOT support the IRA or anyone associated with them. They've shown that they would make a terrible leadership through their callous disregard for civilian life.

If they want to target military bases, police stations and cops, that's fine. I don't give a fuck about that, that's them fighting the government. It's why what's going on in Iraq is not terrorism, but guerilla warfare. What these people are doing is going for the easy targets, civilians. That's absolutely unacceptable, and if they ever become the leadership in Ireland you'll see why that sort of thing is bad. If they don't care about civilian life during warfare they won't care about it during peace either. Do your research about revolutions and see how it turns out most of the time. You're going to end up with a theocratic Catholic government.

[Shillelagh]

Locked before I have to start handing out infractions.

Play nice.