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kiasta
03-03-2009, 04:36
http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=5425

So, according to Antitrust laws how does one compete in this country? I think Antitrust laws should be abolished. Think of how the economy would be affected if companies would be forced to actually compete with one another...but hey that's America for you, we are riddled with pointless laws that do nothing to help.

Charlie9
03-03-2009, 13:18
Actually Anti-Trust Laws are there for help. Without them you would see about 6 more knock off companies pop up in each industry using the same process lowering prices to below production cost and bankrupting the companies.

dinkfall
03-03-2009, 15:01
Actually Anti-Trust Laws are there for help. Without them you would see about 6 more knock off companies pop up in each industry using the same process lowering prices to below production cost and bankrupting the companies.

Such as it is in Hong Kong where there are no antitrust laws.... oh wait

Killuminati
03-03-2009, 15:50
People who support anti-trust laws don't know the history of it. The only people who support it have bought into marxian theories of "predatory pricing" which is a joke since it hasn't been proven scientifically. The only entity which truly creates barriers to entry into an industry is government. If one just looks back a few hundred years ago it wouldn't be difficult to understand this wilth all the guilds that were sanctioned by government.

We also need to look no further in current present day examples where arbitrary regulations are set which allow for industries that have already settled and achieved an economies of scale to continue to operate while only having to endure minor extra costs from regulations which other firms attempting to enter the market have to be burdened with. Rendering them unable to compete with the larger firms which can afford the larger costs.


Of course the little horror stories of monopolists people create in their mind perpetuate this kind of idiotic thinking.

stalwart
03-03-2009, 16:27
They have a different culture in HK. If we unleashed our already huge corporations, there's be zero competition in this country.

PirateGlen
03-03-2009, 23:46
People who support anti-trust laws don't know the history of it. The only people who support it have bought into marxian theories of "predatory pricing" which is a joke since it hasn't been proven scientifically. The only entity which truly creates barriers to entry into an industry is government. If one just looks back a few hundred years ago it wouldn't be difficult to understand this wilth all the guilds that were sanctioned by government.

We also need to look no further in current present day examples where arbitrary regulations are set which allow for industries that have already settled and achieved an economies of scale to continue to operate while only having to endure minor extra costs from regulations which other firms attempting to enter the market have to be burdened with. Rendering them unable to compete with the larger firms which can afford the larger costs.


Of course the little horror stories of monopolists people create in their mind perpetuate this kind of idiotic thinking.

Predatory pricing is not the only reason for antitrust laws.

Charlie9
03-04-2009, 00:38
Wouldn't you prove it mathmatically not scientificully? Right now Anti Trust enforces Monopolies, I believe in them 100% because of the proven things that happen when they don't exsist.

Killuminati
03-04-2009, 00:44
Economics is a science. Do these proven things have any empirical data or are they floating ideas with no substance?

Woopya
03-04-2009, 00:52
The objective, plain and simple, of anti trust policies are to prevent any company from becoming so big that its failure can bring down an economy.

Being against antitrust right now, during these current economic situation, shows how ignorant you are.

In fact, if anti trust laws were correctly enforced they would PROMOTE competition.

However, the recent inaction by the US government in anti trust matters has allowed poorly run giant companies like AIG, Ford, GM, and Chrystler to become so big and influential to the US economy that the failure or collapse of any 1 of these companies would spiral the economy. Therefor, the government is required to constantly bail out these garbage companies. They should have NEVER been allowed to get as big as they are, with as much influence over the economy.

The premise of this entire thread is absolutely wrong and 1 only needs look at the current economic problems world wide as evidence.

Killuminati
03-04-2009, 00:53
yup, keep telling yourself that...promote competition
:lmao:

Slypieguy
03-04-2009, 01:05
yup, keep telling yourself that...promote competition
:lmao:

I think promoting competition was the wrong choice of words for him. The laws help prevent the stifling of competition (standard oil), which could be phrased, misleadingly, as "promoting" more competition.

Shads
03-04-2009, 01:33
Economics is a science. Do these proven things have any empirical data or are they floating ideas with no substance?

Nobody has 'proven' anything about predatory pricing. Some people cooked up a model with some questionable assumptions (rational behaviour, expectation of rational behaviour, perfect information, etc), did some maths and since the result apparently corroborates the views of some pretty wealthy people, gained a career boost.

Nothing scientific in there I can assure you.

Killuminati
03-04-2009, 01:40
Nobody has 'proven' anything about predatory pricing. Some people cooked up a model with some questionable assumptions (rational behaviour, expectation of rational behaviour, perfect information, etc), did some maths and since the result apparently corroborates the views of some pretty wealthy people, gained a career boost.

Nothing scientific in there I can assure you.

I'm not talking about models proving what I explained. I'm talking about whether predatory pricing has any weight as a theory. Based upon history Standard Oil increased output and lowered prices after wiping out its competitors. That is evidence of an economies of scale not an attempt to monopolize. The delusional reasoning that lead to the supreme court case, NJ v. Standard Oil was pure marxist propaganda that the justices used to justify the breaking up of the "trust."

Durindana
03-04-2009, 01:51
fucking morons, all of you

Shads
03-04-2009, 01:52
I'm not talking about models proving what I explained. I'm talking about whether predatory pricing has any weight as a theory. Based upon history Standard Oil increased output and lowered prices after wiping out its competitors. That is evidence of an economies of scale not an attempt to monopolize. The delusional reasoning that lead to the supreme court case, NJ v. Standard Oil was pure marxist propaganda that the justices used to justify the breaking up of the "trust."

You are aware that there are such things as dis-economies of scale, right? Otherwise we'd be all working for the same corporation by now (actually this is a really scary thought:ohno:).

Killuminati
03-04-2009, 01:59
You are aware that there are such things as dis-economies of scale, right? Otherwise we'd be all working for the same corporation by now (actually this is a really scary thought:ohno:).

yup, and constant returns to scale.

Spankytwo
03-04-2009, 02:32
people who support anti-trust laws don't know the history of it. The only people who support it have bought into marxian theories of "predatory pricing" which is a joke since it hasn't been proven scientifically. The only entity which truly creates barriers to entry into an industry is government. If one just looks back a few hundred years ago it wouldn't be difficult to understand this wilth all the guilds that were sanctioned by government.

We also need to look no further in current present day examples where arbitrary regulations are set which allow for industries that have already settled and achieved an economies of scale to continue to operate while only having to endure minor extra costs from regulations which other firms attempting to enter the market have to be burdened with. Rendering them unable to compete with the larger firms which can afford the larger costs.


Of course the little horror stories of monopolists people create in their mind perpetuate this kind of idiotic thinking.



yeah guyz dirty evil goverment just wants to hurt us! Pure capitalism ftw!!!!!!!!!! Yeah!

Killuminati
03-04-2009, 02:33
yeah guyz dirty evil goverment just wants to hurt us! Pure capitalism ftw!!!!!!!!!! Yeah!

spanky, just go back to creating crappy troll threads. You suck at this thing.

Spankytwo
03-04-2009, 02:36
spanky, just go back to creating crappy troll threads. You suck at this thing.

Oh sorry that I wasnt listening to an obvious Palin freak (Or a Ron Paul tard) over the internet, and following him 100%.


Reganomics ftw, amirite.

Killuminati
03-04-2009, 02:37
I actually chucked, good job.

Harto
03-04-2009, 02:48
If you are American or pay attention to American News, you will know about how we had to bailout banks that made horrible business decisions because they were "too big to fail". This is one of the things anti-trust laws were designed to prevent. It it a severe problem when a corporation or set of corporations grow so large and powerful that their economic influence removes them from the normal rules of competition. It is much the same way a single clan or alliance with 60% of all the players on a Darkfall server would ruin the experience for the remaining 40% of the players and their clans.

Silverhandorder
03-04-2009, 04:20
If you are American or pay attention to American News, you will know about how we had to bailout banks that made horrible business decisions because they were "too big to fail". This is one of the things anti-trust laws were designed to prevent. It it a severe problem when a corporation or set of corporations grow so large and powerful that their economic influence removes them from the normal rules of competition. It is much the same way a single clan or alliance with 60% of all the players on a Darkfall server would ruin the experience for the remaining 40% of the players and their clans.

That is funny you demonstrate zero comprehension on how markets work with those comments.


No industry or company is too big to fail. Just because they grow so big that their dissolution would negatively effect many people does not mean that they should be bailed out. Such big companies are unsustainable at that size. The right solution is actually to let them fail. What is more interesting is that they only grow so big and inefficient when they do it under the government mandate.