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View Full Version : Ranked Staff Testing, Spell Impressions, and Suggestions


Necodemus123
02-18-2009, 11:42 PM
I have worked long and hard on this so i hope you find it useful, and the developers consider my suggestions. It is by no means complete and i will update it as information becomes available.

If you find any errors please lets me know.

All spell testing was done with both players Alfar, and wearing no armor. A special thanks to Xorv Spidershroud for letting me test on him.



Neco Demus

Strength: 19.1
Vitality: 17.5
Dexterity: 20.0
Quickness: 29.4
Intelligence: 35.7
Wisdom: 20.0


Xorv Spidershroud

Strength: 16.9 Constitution: 1.4
Vitality: 16.1 Defense: 15.7
Dexterity: 21.0 Fortitude: 2.8
Quickness: 22.3 Reflexes: 1.6
Intelligence: 26.2 Willpower: 1.0
Wisdom: 20.0 Rigor: 14.8


-----------------------------------------------------------

Tested with:

Dawnstaff, Rank 0 Starter Staff
Darkheart, Rank 20, Damage 0.45, Slower Casting Time, Improved Effects
Blackbolt, Rank 40, Damage 0.08, Faster Casting Time, Lowered Effects
Deerstick, Rank 40, Damage 0.28, Improved Effects
Lightstealer, Rank 60, Damage 0.36, Improved Effects

Unlike weapons and armor staff rank only influences durability loss, not the effects the staff provides. For example if you cast a spell that is level 28 with a rank 60 staff more durability is lost than if the spell was above skill level 60.

The damage number reflects the power level of the staff, 0.28 is a 28% increase, 0.75 is a 75% increase. They do not effect Mana Missile.


Lesser Magic: 84.3 Skill level

Durable Spells: 55.6
Mana Efficiency: 52.7
Quicken Spells: 35.3

Mana Missile: 85.0 Skill Level (8 Mana)
Dawnstaff: Front 12-14, Back 15.4-18.1
Darkheart: Front 13, Back 16.8-21.0
Blackbolt: Front 11-15, Back 16.8
Deerstick: Front 12-13, Back 16.8
Lightstealer: Front 10-14, Back 16.8-21.0


Eldrich Sphere: 1.7 Skill Level (24 Mana and 1 Sulfur)
Dawnstaff: Front 15.0, Back 15.4
Darkheart:Front 14.1, Back 23.8
Blackbolt: Front 15.0, Back 18.1
Deerstick: Front 15.0, Back 16.8
Lightstealer: Front 14.0, Back 19.0


Lay on Hands: 1.5 Skill Level (28 Mana, 3 Ticks, Uses 1 Resin)
Dawnstaff: 5.3
Darkheart: 7.3
Blackbolt: 5.0
Deerstick: 4.6
Lightstealer: 7.0


Heal Self: 44.6 Skill Level (4 ticks, Uses 24 Mana)
Dawnstaff: 3.25
Darkheart: 5.25
Blackbolt: 4.25
Deerstick: 4.0
Lightstealer: 4.75


Man to Stamina: 1.4 Skill Level (Every Staff 3 Ticks, Uses 1 Resin)
Dawnstaff: 6.3
Darkheart: 7.6
Blackbolt: 7.0
Deerstick: 5.3
Lightstealer: 7.3


Health to Mana: 18.9 Skill Level (Every Staff 3 Ticks, Uses 1 Sulfur)
Dawnstaff: 6.6
Darkheart: 6.6
Blackbolt: 7.0
Deerstick: 7.0
Lightstealer: 6.3

-----------------------------------------------------------

Greater Magic: 50.0 Skill Level

Durable Spells: 32.6


Rend: 62.7 Skill Level (24 Mana and 1 Bone) (Every Staff 8 Ticks)

Dawnstaff: Front 2.37, 0.95 Stamina Drain, 1.3 Piercing Debuff
Back 3.32, 0.98 Stamina Drain, 1.3 Piercing Debuff

Darkheart: 2.87, 1.15 Stamina Drain, 1.1 Piercing Debuff
Back 3.85, 1.15 Stamina Drain, 1.1 Piercing Debuff

Blackbolt: 2.62, 1.05 Stamina Drain, 0.9 Piercing Debuff
Back 3.32, 0.95 Stamina Drain, 0.9 Piercing Debuff

Deerstick: 2.62, 1.05 Stamina Drain, 1.2 Piercing Debuff
Back 3.5, 1.05 Stamina Drain, 1.2 Piercing Debuff

Lightstealer: 2.12, 0.85 Stamina Drain, 1.1 Piercing Debuff
Back 2.80, 0.85 Stamina Drain, 1.1 Piercing Debuff


Heal Other: 1.5 Skill Level (24 Mana, 2 Ticks, Uses 1 Resin)
Dawnstaff: 5.0
Darkheart: 6.5
Blackbolt: 5.5
Deerstick: 6.5
Lightstealer: 5.5

-----------------------------------------------------------
Witchcraft: 1.0 Skill Level


Needles: 1.1 Skill Level (24 Mana and 2 Bone)

Dawnstaff: Front 1.25, 0.5 Stamina Drain
Back 1.5, 0.4 Stamina Drain

Blackbolt: 1.5, 0.6 Stamina Drain
Back 1.9, 0.5 Stamina Drain

-----------------------------------------------------------

Water Magic: 1.5 Skill Level


Icicle: 2.0 Skill Level (24 Mana and 2 Nacre)
Dawnstaff: Front 23, Back 28, Stamina Drain 9.0
Darkheart: Front 31, Back 12, Stamina Drain 10.8
Blackbolt: Front 24, Back 35, Stamina Drain 10.0
Deerstick: Front 27, Back 37, Stamina Drain 10.8
Lightstealer: Front 26, Back 37.8, Stamina Drain 10.8

-----------------------------------------------------------

Air Magic 1.5 Skill Level


Ball Lightning: 1.9 Skill Level (24 Mana and 2 Mandrake)
Dawnstaff: Front 23, Back 28, Stamina Drain 9.0
Darkheart: Front 31, Back 12, Stamina Drain 10.8
Blackbolt: Front 24, Back 35, Stamina Drain 10.0
Deerstick: Front 27, Back 37, Stamina Drain 10.8
Lightstealer: Front 26, Back 37.8, Stamina Drain 10.8




-----------------------------------------------------------

Impressions

Lesser Magic:


Mana Missile: The bread and butter spell for what seems to be far too long. At skill level 25 its damage slightly increases, again at 50 plus it becomes a double ring with a larger AoE, at 75 the only change appears to be graphical, at 99 im told the AoE increases slightly.

Eldrich Sphere: It has a tiny AoE, uses a reagent, costs 3x the mana of Mana Missile, and has a cool down. Even though it has higher damage for those reasons it is not worth using over Mana Missile. I realize higher levels of this spell and an effective staff increase the damage but from my experience skill based damage improvements are somewhat minor. It would need to do 3x the damage of Mana Missile before I would consider it worthwhile.

Lay on hands: A solid spell that is very useful in a group. Does not share a cool down timer with Heal Other.

Heal Self: Ineffective in combat. Useful to lessen downtime or when running/chasing in PvP.

Mana to Stamina: A fantastic spell. Extremely useful when running/chasing in PvP or even for faster travel by foot.

Health to Mana: Another fantastic spell. Using this and Mana Missile I am able to permanently kill trolls without ever resting or pulling a melee weapon.

Mana Drain: It recovers around 1/3 the mana of Health to Mana but does not remove health. Because it also uses 1 sulfur I find Health to Mana far more useful. However it remains to be seen how much each will improve with skill level.

Launch: Extremely useful for escaping a losing PvP situation or waiting in an elevated ambush position.



Greater Magic:

Rend: Like Eldrich Sphere It has a tiny AoE, uses a reagent, costs 3x the mana of Mana Missile, and has a cool down. Even though it has slightly higher damage, minor stamina drain, and an inconsequential piercing de buff it is not worth using over Mana Missile. I realize higher levels of this spell and an effective staff increase the damage but from my experience skill based damage improvements are somewhat minor. It would need to do 3x the damage of Mana Missile before I would consider it worthwhile.

Frailty: This is supposed to de buff all types of damage resistance but I have used it multiple times on the same player and monster and there has been no change to magic, melee, or archery damage. Either damage resistance is not working or this spell is not working.

Heal Other: It seems to be far less effective since it only has 2 ticks compared to Lay on Hands 3 ticks. However since they do not share a cool down timer a combination of the two is substantial.

Telekinesis: Moves you up and down as if on an invisible elevator. Since you can use it with Launch it becomes even better.



Witchcraft:

Needles: It uses 2 reagent, and like Rend and Eldrich Sphere costs 3x the mana of Mana Missile, and has a cool down. Except the damage on this spell is actually lower than Mana Missile. I realize higher levels of this spell and an effective staff increase the damage but from my experience skill based damage improvements are somewhat minor. It would need to do 3x the damage of Mana Missile before I would consider it worthwhile.

Sluggish: A quickness de buff. I've tested this on both players and monsters and it seems to have absolutely no effect. It is possible that the effects from stats (or the lack of a stat) has not yet been turned on.



Water Magic:

Icicle: It has virtually no AoE, uses 2 reagents, and costs 24 mana...but it has no cool down, a significant damage increase, a substantial stamina drain, and a fast projectile speed. It is much harder to hit with but still useful for stamina drain and fast damage in PvP situations. However because of the increased mana cost and using 2 reagents it does not replace Mana Missile in PvE and only partially replaces it in PvP.

Gills: Adds an additional 30 seconds of breath by slowing the rate you lose the oxygen bar.



Air Magic:

Ball Lightning: Exactly the same spell as Icicle. The only difference is the animation graphic, reagents used, and the name.



Fire Magic:

Firebolt: I'm told it is exactly the same spell as Icicle and Ball lightning. The only difference is the animation graphic, reagents used, and the name.



Earth Magic:

Acid Arrow: I'm told it is exactly the same spell as Icicle, Ball lightning, and Firebolt. The only difference is the animation graphic, reagents used, and the name.




-----------------------------------------------------------

Suggestions:

Spells should start off weak but show more of an improvement when the benchmarks of 25, 50, 75, and 99 skill levels are reached. As it is now reaching those benchmarks does not feel very rewarding.

When you work hard and reach a new damage spell it should be better than your old damage spells and worth using in combat. I'm all for the concept of spells starting off weak then improving but they should start off weak relative to themselves, not previous spells. As it is now when you get Eldrich Sphere, Rend, Needles, and Venom they are never (or rarely) used because they are not an improvement over Mana Missile, no matter what skill level they reach. Something doesn't seem right when you have been playing the game for 3 weeks and have taken the elemental schools but you are still using the starting damage spell 90% of the time.

You should not be put in the position of either use the new spells that are not worth using in combat for weeks (gimping yourself the entire time), or grinding reagents for weeks and firing the spell into a wall in order to reach the next benchmark. For example you reach 50 Lesser Magic and take Greater Magic you can only level Greater Magic to 25 using two spells Rend, which is worse than Mana Missile, or Beacon, which is not practical because of its 2 reagent cost. The same applies to Frailty, Needles, Venom, Sluggish, and the elemental schools starting projectiles.

In a sandbox game where you can do what you want and play how you want you should be able to PvE as mainly an archer or caster and be cost effective. Meaning that the npc's you kill should provide a net gain in loot over the cost of killing it. A caster or archer must either use Mana Missile or melee for that to be the case. This is one of the main reasons Mana Missile must still be used so late in the progression of spells.

In a sandbox MMO where you can do what you want and play how you want you should be able to play as mainly a caster and be effective in PvP early in the game. Casters need to wear cloth armor at best to avoid damage and casting time penalties. Which means extremely low survivability, but there is no off set to this disadvantage early on that makes it possible to PvP effectively. In other words a caster wearing cloth armor needs to have some means of preventing melee from coming into melee range, and if they do casters need some skillful way of creating distance. Later in the game a caster will be able to knock back, blind, stamina drain, or possibly encumber, wall of force, and whirlwind to create distance but there is nothing like that early in the game.

Necodemus123
02-20-2009, 01:48 PM
Sorry i meant to say:

Like weapons and armor staff rank only influences durability loss, not the effects the staff provides. For example if you cast a spell that is level 28 with a rank 60 staff more durability is lost than if the spell was above skill level 60.

not "unlike"

BeRsErCeR
02-20-2009, 01:51 PM
LEt me quote the devs:
"I would like to ask that we keep the beta discussion in here and that you refrain from cross-posting on the other forums."

Its cheap what you are doing. noone listens to you in beta and you whineing "i want more dmg with amgic" i want to solo with magic" and now you are trying it with this shit tactic to get the non beta testers QQing.

/close pls

Dunmer
02-20-2009, 02:02 PM
This is actually pretty interesting statistics. :P
And nice to see some stuff about other spells than MM.

Drudley
02-20-2009, 02:17 PM
My staff might have been better than yours, but my Acid Arrow did 30+ in front and up to 49 in back. Though, it did have less stamina drain than you seem to have.

zeroburrito
02-20-2009, 02:18 PM
so there are 3 offensive attacks with only 1 or 2 not being worthless? what have they been doing all this time?

Wizard of Yndor
02-21-2009, 12:04 AM
I have worked long and hard on this so i hope you find it useful, and the developers consider my suggestions. It is by no means complete and i will update it as information becomes available.

If you find any errors please lets me know.

All spell testing was done with both players Alfar, and wearing no armor. A special thanks to Xorv Spidershroud for letting me test on him.



Neco Demus

Strength: 19.1
Vitality: 17.5
Dexterity: 20.0
Quickness: 29.4
Intelligence: 35.7
Wisdom: 20.0


Xorv Spidershroud

Strength: 16.9 Constitution: 1.4
Vitality: 16.1 Defense: 15.7
Dexterity: 21.0 Fortitude: 2.8
Quickness: 22.3 Reflexes: 1.6
Intelligence: 26.2 Willpower: 1.0
Wisdom: 20.0 Rigor: 14.8


-----------------------------------------------------------

Tested with:

Dawnstaff, Rank 0 Starter Staff
Darkheart, Rank 20, Damage 0.45, Slower Casting Time, Improved Effects
Blackbolt, Rank 40, Damage 0.08, Faster Casting Time, Lowered Effects
Deerstick, Rank 40, Damage 0.28, Improved Effects
Lightstealer, Rank 60, Damage 0.36, Improved Effects

Unlike weapons and armor staff rank only influences durability loss, not the effects the staff provides. For example if you cast a spell that is level 28 with a rank 60 staff more durability is lost than if the spell was above skill level 60.

The damage number reflects the power level of the staff, 0.28 is a 28% increase, 0.75 is a 75% increase. They do not effect Mana Missile.


Lesser Magic: 84.3 Skill level

Durable Spells: 55.6
Mana Efficiency: 52.7
Quicken Spells: 35.3

Mana Missile: 85.0 Skill Level (8 Mana)
Dawnstaff: Front 12-14, Back 15.4-18.1
Darkheart: Front 13, Back 16.8-21.0
Blackbolt: Front 11-15, Back 16.8
Deerstick: Front 12-13, Back 16.8
Lightstealer: Front 10-14, Back 16.8-21.0


Eldrich Sphere: 1.7 Skill Level (24 Mana and 1 Sulfur)
Dawnstaff: Front 15.0, Back 15.4
Darkheart:Front 14.1, Back 23.8
Blackbolt: Front 15.0, Back 18.1
Deerstick: Front 15.0, Back 16.8
Lightstealer: Front 14.0, Back 19.0


Lay on Hands: 1.5 Skill Level (28 Mana, 3 Ticks, Uses 1 Resin)
Dawnstaff: 5.3
Darkheart: 7.3
Blackbolt: 5.0
Deerstick: 4.6
Lightstealer: 7.0


Heal Self: 44.6 Skill Level (4 ticks, Uses 24 Mana)
Dawnstaff: 3.25
Darkheart: 5.25
Blackbolt: 4.25
Deerstick: 4.0
Lightstealer: 4.75


Man to Stamina: 1.4 Skill Level (Every Staff 3 Ticks, Uses 1 Resin)
Dawnstaff: 6.3
Darkheart: 7.6
Blackbolt: 7.0
Deerstick: 5.3
Lightstealer: 7.3


Health to Mana: 18.9 Skill Level (Every Staff 3 Ticks, Uses 1 Sulfur)
Dawnstaff: 6.6
Darkheart: 6.6
Blackbolt: 7.0
Deerstick: 7.0
Lightstealer: 6.3

-----------------------------------------------------------

Greater Magic: 50.0 Skill Level

Durable Spells: 32.6


Rend: 62.7 Skill Level (24 Mana and 1 Bone) (Every Staff 8 Ticks)

Dawnstaff: Front 2.37, 0.95 Stamina Drain, 1.3 Piercing Debuff
Back 3.32, 0.98 Stamina Drain, 1.3 Piercing Debuff

Darkheart: 2.87, 1.15 Stamina Drain, 1.1 Piercing Debuff
Back 3.85, 1.15 Stamina Drain, 1.1 Piercing Debuff

Blackbolt: 2.62, 1.05 Stamina Drain, 0.9 Piercing Debuff
Back 3.32, 0.95 Stamina Drain, 0.9 Piercing Debuff

Deerstick: 2.62, 1.05 Stamina Drain, 1.2 Piercing Debuff
Back 3.5, 1.05 Stamina Drain, 1.2 Piercing Debuff

Lightstealer: 2.12, 0.85 Stamina Drain, 1.1 Piercing Debuff
Back 2.80, 0.85 Stamina Drain, 1.1 Piercing Debuff


Heal Other: 1.5 Skill Level (24 Mana, 2 Ticks, Uses 1 Resin)
Dawnstaff: 5.0
Darkheart: 6.5
Blackbolt: 5.5
Deerstick: 6.5
Lightstealer: 5.5

-----------------------------------------------------------
Witchcraft: 1.0 Skill Level


Needles: 1.1 Skill Level (24 Mana and 2 Bone)

Dawnstaff: Front 1.25, 0.5 Stamina Drain
Back 1.5, 0.4 Stamina Drain

Blackbolt: 1.5, 0.6 Stamina Drain
Back 1.9, 0.5 Stamina Drain

-----------------------------------------------------------

Water Magic: 1.5 Skill Level


Icicle: 2.0 Skill Level (24 Mana and 2 Nacre)
Dawnstaff: Front 23, Back 28, Stamina Drain 9.0
Darkheart: Front 31, Back 12, Stamina Drain 10.8
Blackbolt: Front 24, Back 35, Stamina Drain 10.0
Deerstick: Front 27, Back 37, Stamina Drain 10.8
Lightstealer: Front 26, Back 37.8, Stamina Drain 10.8

-----------------------------------------------------------

Air Magic 1.5 Skill Level


Ball Lightning: 1.9 Skill Level (24 Mana and 2 Mandrake)
Dawnstaff: Front 23, Back 28, Stamina Drain 9.0
Darkheart: Front 31, Back 12, Stamina Drain 10.8
Blackbolt: Front 24, Back 35, Stamina Drain 10.0
Deerstick: Front 27, Back 37, Stamina Drain 10.8
Lightstealer: Front 26, Back 37.8, Stamina Drain 10.8




-----------------------------------------------------------

Impressions

Lesser Magic:


Mana Missile: The bread and butter spell for what seems to be far too long. At skill level 25 its damage slightly increases, again at 50 plus it becomes a double ring with a larger AoE, at 75 the only change appears to be graphical, at 99 im told the AoE increases slightly.

Eldrich Sphere: It has a tiny AoE, uses a reagent, costs 3x the mana of Mana Missile, and has a cool down. Even though it has higher damage for those reasons it is not worth using over Mana Missile. I realize higher levels of this spell and an effective staff increase the damage but from my experience skill based damage improvements are somewhat minor. It would need to do 3x the damage of Mana Missile before I would consider it worthwhile.

Lay on hands: A solid spell that is very useful in a group. Does not share a cool down timer with Heal Other.

Heal Self: Ineffective in combat. Useful to lessen downtime or when running/chasing in PvP.

Mana to Stamina: A fantastic spell. Extremely useful when running/chasing in PvP or even for faster travel by foot.

Health to Mana: Another fantastic spell. Using this and Mana Missile I am able to permanently kill trolls without ever resting or pulling a melee weapon.

Mana Drain: It recovers around 1/3 the mana of Health to Mana but does not remove health. Because it also uses 1 sulfur I find Health to Mana far more useful. However it remains to be seen how much each will improve with skill level.

Launch: Extremely useful for escaping a losing PvP situation or waiting in an elevated ambush position.



Greater Magic:

Rend: Like Eldrich Sphere It has a tiny AoE, uses a reagent, costs 3x the mana of Mana Missile, and has a cool down. Even though it has slightly higher damage, minor stamina drain, and an inconsequential piercing de buff it is not worth using over Mana Missile. I realize higher levels of this spell and an effective staff increase the damage but from my experience skill based damage improvements are somewhat minor. It would need to do 3x the damage of Mana Missile before I would consider it worthwhile.

Frailty: This is supposed to de buff all types of damage resistance but I have used it multiple times on the same player and monster and there has been no change to magic, melee, or archery damage. Either damage resistance is not working or this spell is not working.

Heal Other: It seems to be far less effective since it only has 2 ticks compared to Lay on Hands 3 ticks. However since they do not share a cool down timer a combination of the two is substantial.

Telekinesis: Moves you up and down as if on an invisible elevator. Since you can use it with Launch it becomes even better.



Witchcraft:

Needles: It uses 2 reagent, and like Rend and Eldrich Sphere costs 3x the mana of Mana Missile, and has a cool down. Except the damage on this spell is actually lower than Mana Missile. I realize higher levels of this spell and an effective staff increase the damage but from my experience skill based damage improvements are somewhat minor. It would need to do 3x the damage of Mana Missile before I would consider it worthwhile.

Sluggish: A quickness de buff. I've tested this on both players and monsters and it seems to have absolutely no effect. It is possible that the effects from stats (or the lack of a stat) has not yet been turned on.



Water Magic:

Icicle: It has virtually no AoE, uses 2 reagents, and costs 24 mana...but it has no cool down, a significant damage increase, a substantial stamina drain, and a fast projectile speed. It is much harder to hit with but still useful for stamina drain and fast damage in PvP situations. However because of the increased mana cost and using 2 reagents it does not replace Mana Missile in PvE and only partially replaces it in PvP.

Gills: Adds an additional 30 seconds of breath by slowing the rate you lose the oxygen bar.



Air Magic:

Ball Lightning: Exactly the same spell as Icicle. The only difference is the animation graphic, reagents used, and the name.



Fire Magic:

Firebolt: I'm told it is exactly the same spell as Icicle and Ball lightning. The only difference is the animation graphic, reagents used, and the name.



Earth Magic:

Acid Arrow: I'm told it is exactly the same spell as Icicle, Ball lightning, and Firebolt. The only difference is the animation graphic, reagents used, and the name.




-----------------------------------------------------------

Suggestions:

Spells should start off weak but show more of an improvement when the benchmarks of 25, 50, 75, and 99 skill levels are reached. As it is now reaching those benchmarks does not feel very rewarding.

When you work hard and reach a new damage spell it should be better than your old damage spells and worth using in combat. I'm all for the concept of spells starting off weak then improving but they should start off weak relative to themselves, not previous spells. As it is now when you get Eldrich Sphere, Rend, Needles, and Venom they are never (or rarely) used because they are not an improvement over Mana Missile, no matter what skill level they reach. Something doesn't seem right when you have been playing the game for 3 weeks and have taken the elemental schools but you are still using the starting damage spell 90% of the time.

You should not be put in the position of either use the new spells that are not worth using in combat for weeks (gimping yourself the entire time), or grinding reagents for weeks and firing the spell into a wall in order to reach the next benchmark. For example you reach 50 Lesser Magic and take Greater Magic you can only level Greater Magic to 25 using two spells Rend, which is worse than Mana Missile, or Beacon, which is not practical because of its 2 reagent cost. The same applies to Frailty, Needles, Venom, Sluggish, and the elemental schools starting projectiles.

In a sandbox game where you can do what you want and play how you want you should be able to PvE as mainly an archer or caster and be cost effective. Meaning that the npc's you kill should provide a net gain in loot over the cost of killing it. A caster or archer must either use Mana Missile or melee for that to be the case. This is one of the main reasons Mana Missile must still be used so late in the progression of spells.

In a sandbox MMO where you can do what you want and play how you want you should be able to play as mainly a caster and be effective in PvP early in the game. Casters need to wear cloth armor at best to avoid damage and casting time penalties. Which means extremely low survivability, but there is no off set to this disadvantage early on that makes it possible to PvP effectively. In other words a caster wearing cloth armor needs to have some means of preventing melee from coming into melee range, and if they do casters need some skillful way of creating distance. Later in the game a caster will be able to knock back, blind, stamina drain, or possibly encumber, wall of force, and whirlwind to create distance but there is nothing like that early in the game.



This is one of the better beta threads on magic, so I wanted to move it back up.

Do any beta testers have some solid, detailed info on how to craft magic staffs?

-Info. on components, costs etc.?
-Skills needed to craft various staffs? I know it has been stated that alchemy is required, but any others?

WoOpin
02-21-2009, 12:32 AM
Staffs do effect mana missile.

Khazym
02-21-2009, 12:38 AM
LEt me quote the devs:
"I would like to ask that we keep the beta discussion in here and that you refrain from cross-posting on the other forums."

Its cheap what you are doing. noone listens to you in beta and you whineing "i want more dmg with amgic" i want to solo with magic" and now you are trying it with this shit tactic to get the non beta testers QQing.

/close pls You are a fucking idiot - there, troll is fed.


OP- GFP! = great fucking post, thank you for putting some time and effort into getting some much needed information out there.
I wanted to test magic a little further on my beta char because not enough information was around on the higher tiered schools. After farming some gold I was dismayed to find out I needed 50 greater magic to even branch off to any elemental school. This system of climbing 2 straight lines before being able to branch out will discourage alot of people from going anywhere with magic. Alot of people have expressed that they like magic being a hard progression because then it will mean something, and not just anyone will have it. What they wont like is reaching some higher tiers and magic being largely ineffective. Some pretty neat utility spells are in but the damage spells are HIGHLY disappointing especially when compared to the free staple MM.
Worse, magic sucks ass when your FPSing everything even heals on a group mate. Using magic of any any sort of larger battle is pretty much not worth it IMO unless youve got a skirmish line type battle going, or are attacking/defending a specific location.
Firing damage in a regular pvp battle will especially risky with little reward in a battle with all race clans present and their clan members of YOUR race running circles around them or jumping in front of your fire to flag you. Then they are free to kill you when flagged gray and you were only defending while they exploit BROKEN game mechanics.

Sabbathius
03-05-2009, 05:25 PM
I've been leveling Magic since Monday night, and did not get far into Greater Magic, around 15 now. However, damage/debuffs on all spells seem ludicrously low, especially considering the reagents that you have to farm between battles.

Hopefully this balancing issue will be addressed. If not, we'll all be doing mounted melee.

aenimka
03-05-2009, 06:21 PM
dev's should fucking read it, almost all spells are useless after 6years of testing. WTF?

Trigg
03-05-2009, 10:49 PM
dev's should fucking read it, almost all spells are useless after 6years of DEVELOPING. WTF?

fixd!

Ezar
03-20-2009, 03:40 PM
lets hope devs will read this

Elphaba
03-20-2009, 03:58 PM
What the OP's post tells me is that, based on his stats and the effects of his spells, he should probably use the rank 20 staff.

What else does this test, in fact, show?

uo97to03
03-20-2009, 04:00 PM
good post, sad to see magic in such a shit hole atm.

Goit
03-20-2009, 04:10 PM
I

Icicle: 2.0 Skill Level (24 Mana and 2 Nacre)
Dawnstaff: Front 23, Back 28, Stamina Drain 9.0
Darkheart: Front 31, Back 12, Stamina Drain 10.8
Blackbolt: Front 24, Back 35, Stamina Drain 10.0
Deerstick: Front 27, Back 37, Stamina Drain 10.8
Lightstealer: Front 26, Back 37.8, Stamina Drain 10.8



typo on the darkheart back damage? 12 doesn't seem to scale quite right...:confused:

Stumpy
03-20-2009, 04:11 PM
LEt me quote the devs:
"I would like to ask that we keep the beta discussion in here and that you refrain from cross-posting on the other forums."

Its cheap what you are doing. noone listens to you in beta and you whineing "i want more dmg with amgic" i want to solo with magic" and now you are trying it with this shit tactic to get the non beta testers QQing.

/close pls

no you are born to troll, did you perants beat you when you were a kid?

eekie
03-20-2009, 04:24 PM
This post is awesome.

It definitely SEEMS like there should be major tweaks here, but I am wondering how good/bad it actually gets once you hit 100 Fire/100 Firebolt for example.

/shrug

Does seem like you should be seeing better bumps as you improve. :bang:

Milo Hobgoblin
03-20-2009, 04:27 PM
Great info. Im sure the vast majority of peole who have used magic in both beta and retail would agree with your assesment.

Thanks for the hard work.. in spite of the one moronic troll.

Elphaba
03-20-2009, 04:37 PM
typo on the darkheart back damage? 12 doesn't seem to scale quite right...:confused:

...

Epitaph
03-20-2009, 04:47 PM
Thank you for this great post and all of your time and effort. We should keep this post near the top. Anyone else who is testing magic, it would be great if you could reply in a similar manner to show the viablity of these stats. The more testing done in a honest manner with out flaming AV, the more likely we are to see improvements in the magic area.

Thanks again to the OP and his magic punching bag for this usefull and well presented information. :)

Archaegeo
03-20-2009, 04:49 PM
Berserker, STFU, if you saw the same results with melee you'd wet your diapers.

OP - Fantastic work, depressing, but fantastic

In Nox
03-20-2009, 04:51 PM
Could a Mod move this to the Magic forum?

Props to OP for creating the first thread I have ever seen with real data. Bravo!

Dom305
03-20-2009, 05:08 PM
Intel doesnt seem to increase magic dam eather. I think all the stats are broken. :( great fuckin post though.

Dwhap
03-20-2009, 05:08 PM
LEt me quote the devs:
"I would like to ask that we keep the beta discussion in here and that you refrain from cross-posting on the other forums."

Its cheap what you are doing. noone listens to you in beta and you whineing "i want more dmg with amgic" i want to solo with magic" and now you are trying it with this shit tactic to get the non beta testers QQing.

/close pls

BeRsErCeR you are the biggest loser to ever post in these forums so nobody gives 2 shits what you say. Congrats!

Nice post OP. I agree that magic need some serious tweaking. I'm sure as soon as they get the servers rock solid they will start to improve the mechanics of magic and Melee.

HauptmannHP
04-01-2009, 02:23 PM
Could a Mod move this to the Magic forum?

Done.

Jawohl
04-01-2009, 02:55 PM
I see the testing was done by alfar, did these tests take into account the fluctuating nature of alfar magic?

Kerlin
04-01-2009, 03:25 PM
The 2 testers have a difference in their intelligence (35.7 vs 26.2). Did this translate into a noticable difference in the effectiveness of the spells?

Beltara
04-01-2009, 03:35 PM
The other didn't cast any spells, instead he acted as a target.

Daako
04-01-2009, 04:24 PM
Great post!
Thanks for all.


/Agreed

AdmiralChaos
04-01-2009, 04:33 PM
wow...necro'd.

also, we have a guildie who pulled off a 40 damage (to the back) needles last night, using a darkheart. Have faith, my fellow witchcrafters!

Mulciber
04-01-2009, 05:58 PM
Heal Self: 44.6 Skill Level (4 ticks, Uses 24 Mana)
Dawnstaff: 3.25
Darkheart: 5.25
Blackbolt: 4.25
Deerstick: 4.0
Lightstealer: 4.75

I havent finished reading it all but interestingly enough I have the same results and I have only 21 int and the exact same 44.6 in self heal. So i dont think self heal benefits from anything but its own skill level (disregarding lesser magic level) and the level of the staff.

Silentdemon
04-01-2009, 06:25 PM
A post to be reckoned with, great work.

Penneywize9
04-01-2009, 07:24 PM
I think this post was discovered during the excavation of the pyramids of Egypt.

osk_224
04-01-2009, 07:37 PM
the light stealer heals me for 5.5 most of the time at skill 50+. I guess I should try the darkheart again.

tejón
04-02-2009, 08:13 PM
Damn you HauptmannHP! Damn you for dredging this muck to the surface!

A single glance at the numbers tells me that for most of these spells, OP cast it ONCE in front and ONCE in back, completely disregarding random variance (HUGE for certain spells) and the fact that there is a critical hit mechanic (seen with e.g. his Eldritch Sphere Darkheart rear-hit).

Meanwhile, at mid-30s skill with a Darkheart and under 20 Int (Ork), my Eldritch Sphere regularly hits for 20 in front. Short conclusion: neither macro-grinding nor a pile of gear can substitute for basic experimental rigor; also, L2P.

Xorv
04-02-2009, 10:24 PM
These tests were done in Beta not release... just for those that don't know.