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Desperado[1G]
02-14-2009, 10:37
The once proud country has been reduced to running ads on Pakistani television, begging Muslim bullies to leave it alone on the grounds that Britain is becoming Islamized. The taxpayer is putting up £400,000 to finance the campaign.

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/Dont-attack-us-please-UK-ads-to-say-on-Pak-TV/421654/

Political correctness advances Islam more effectively than any suicide bomber could ever hope to.

Paganini
02-14-2009, 10:42
Funny thing is that will probably only increase the likelihood of a terrorist attack on the UK.

Desperado[1G]
02-14-2009, 10:45
Funny thing is that will probably only increase the likelihood of a terrorist attack on the UK.

Of course it will


When people see a strong horse and a weak horse, by nature, they will like the strong horse. This is only one goal; those who want people to worship the lord of the people, without following that doctrine, will be following the doctrine of Muhammad, peace be upon him.

I was ordered to fight the people until they say there is no god but Allah, and Muhammad his prophet

Britain is quickly becoming the weak horse

Pocomatino
02-14-2009, 10:47
I sometimes feel ashamed of being British since our country has been pussified by political correctness more than any other country.

Yeah but I really fucking hate political correctness.

EDIT: What I also hate is when I can't do or say something around certain people because of their religion, we're not all religious and if you don't like that get the fuck out of our country.

Rilman
02-14-2009, 10:54
All English people know who they need to vote for to stop this madness, theyv'e just got to get off there asses and do it.

I am deffinately not a rascist but this country is letting other people take the piss now, wev'e got 2-3 million unemployed and people from other countries are undercutting English people, its not a case of 'ahh English lazy bastards don't want to work' anymore its a case of Europeans hanging around building sites offereing to work 12 hour days for £25 a day, we can't compete.

The time has come to close the borders and evict the disruptive, muslims included. Its time for a bit of British Nationalist Party, even if its for one term to show all these soppy Liberals that we wont put up with our rights being jumped all over.

Desperado[1G]
02-14-2009, 11:01
I sometimes feel ashamed of being British since our country has been pussified by political correctness more than any other country.

Yeah but I really fucking hate political correctness.

EDIT: What I also hate is when I can't do or say something around certain people because of their religion, we're not all religious and if you don't like that get the fuck out of our country.

Don't be ashamed. I don't live there, but I'm sure it's far from over. You're having the same problem we in the states are having. There just aren't any honorable men left in government.

We need more Churchills and Jeffersons

Fro
02-14-2009, 11:38
All English people know who they need to vote for to stop this madness, theyv'e just got to get off there asses and do it.

I am deffinately not a rascist but this country is letting other people take the piss now, wev'e got 2-3 million unemployed and people from other countries are undercutting English people, its not a case of 'ahh English lazy bastards don't want to work' anymore its a case of Europeans hanging around building sites offereing to work 12 hour days for £25 a day, we can't compete.

The time has come to close the borders and evict the disruptive, muslims included. Its time for a bit of British Nationalist Party, even if its for one term to show all these soppy Liberals that we wont put up with our rights being jumped all over.

I'm hearing this more and more and i must say i'm disgusted that Britain is full of so many idiots. This is how the nazis got in power in 1930s germany and look what happened there. They're a group of right wing racists who will only fuck up this country further than what it already is.

I happen to live in an area with a heavy muslim population and the vast majority of them are just your average people.


;2684620']The once proud country has been reduced to running ads on Pakistani television, begging Muslim bullies to leave it alone on the grounds that Britain is becoming Islamized. The taxpayer is putting up £400,000 to finance the campaign.

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/Dont-attack-us-please-UK-ads-to-say-on-Pak-TV/421654/

Political correctness advances Islam more effectively than any suicide bomber could ever hope to.

It is rediculous but its not less stupid then us bending knee to the American governement. It's because we have such strong ties with america that we are the center of so many terrorist plots.

Rilman
02-14-2009, 12:22
I'm hearing this more and more and i must say i'm disgusted that Britain is full of so many idiots. This is how the nazis got in power in 1930s germany and look what happened there. They're a group of right wing racists who will only fuck up this country further than what it already is.

I happen to live in an area with a heavy muslim population and the vast majority of them are just your average people.

It is rediculous but its not less stupid then us bending knee to the American governement. It's because we have such strong ties with america that we are the center of so many terrorist plots.

While I realise its not an ideal solution I am far from an idiot, shame you need to resort to name calling to prove your point.

English people are losing our civil rights in our own country, were paying taxes so immigants can come here and recieve free health care, schooling, housing, unemployment and child benefits for children not even in this country.

Immigrants are undercutting our workers so severely we can't compete with them due to our cost of living overheads which in turn is increasing unemployment.

Our councils fund the building of mosques with more tax payers money and then the extremists of these groups have meetings in the streets of our own country, celebrate and burn our flag when we are bombed.

They incite racial hatred towards us and encourage people to hate and kill us and you call me a rascist?. The prisons are full to the brim of foreign criminals also putting a strain on already fucked up economy.

Do you think were going to get the cream of another country coming here or the poor and criminal?

I am not a fascist, I'm an Anarchist but I can't see another way out of this situation and I'm starting to get really pissed off with being a second class member of my own country who can't complain because people like you will call me a rascist for airing my opinion.

I'm not standing in the street spouting hatred or telling people to kill muslims or selling videos or books that do the same. We have become too complacent and we need to show the government and the rest of the world we will not tolerate it.

If you have a better solution please enlighten me and perhaps I'll support you.

Aragoni
02-14-2009, 12:31
I don't care about Muslims, Christians or any other religious nutjob as long as they stay out of the government.
While you complain about Muslims, Desperado, your country is slowly but steadily becoming Christianized (I guess that's the correct word for it). :rolleyes:

Edit: And... Great Britain was a whole empire that reached all around the globe. Shouldn't it be "United Kingdom"?

Dredgon
02-14-2009, 12:36
Call in Chuck Norris, roundhouse kicking is in the air.

Desperado[1G]
02-14-2009, 12:36
I don't care about Muslims, Christians or any other religious nutjob as long as they stay out of the government.
While you complain about Muslims, Desperado, your country is slowly but steadily becoming Christianized (I guess that's the correct word for it). :rolleyes:

No, we're heading in the opposite direction.

SSguy
02-14-2009, 12:37
;2685121']No, we're heading in the opposite direction.

I take it you haven't seen the "jesus" camps then?

Aragoni
02-14-2009, 12:39
;2685121']No, we're heading in the opposite direction.

Are you suuuuuuuuure? From what I remember reading the Evangelicals and other Christian groups are getting more and more influence in the government. :p

saltwaterteffy
02-14-2009, 12:41
Are you suuuuuuuuure? From what I remember reading the Evangelicals and other Christian groups are getting more and more influence in the government. :p

whatever happened to separation of church and state??

oh that only applies to taxes? we're cool then.:cool:

BrainFire
02-14-2009, 12:42
Are you suuuuuuuuure? From what I remember reading the Evangelicals and other Christian groups are getting more and more influence in the government. :p

wrong. they are far far far less influential in the government.

Aragoni
02-14-2009, 12:47
whatever happened to separation of church and state??

oh that only applies to taxes? we're cool then.:cool:

By the looks of it, yeah. I remember reading "In God We Trust" on your currency, presidents and other officials yelling "God bless America" and the teaching of Creationism in schools. Religion is not something that your dear officials are keeping within themselves.


wrong. they are far far far less influential in the government.

Really? Source please.

Edit: http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/summer97/secular.html
An interesting read.

Desperado[1G]
02-14-2009, 12:48
I take it you haven't seen the "jesus" camps then?

Uh, any sane person can look at our nation's history and compare it to how we live today, and see that the teachings of Christ are not as prevalent as they used to be.

Anyone that says otherwise is just ignorant.

Aragoni
02-14-2009, 12:52
;2685169']Uh, any sane person can look at our nation's history and compare it to how we live today, and see that the teachings of Christ are not as prevalent as they used to be.

Anyone that says otherwise is just ignorant.

We're not speaking about Christians overall in the United States of America, but Christianity spreading it's poison in the government.

SSguy
02-14-2009, 12:57
;2685169']Uh, any sane person can look at our nation's history and compare it to how we live today, and see that the teachings of Christ are not as prevalent as they used to be.

Anyone that says otherwise is just ignorant.

They can also look at history and see the absence of camps indoctrinating children to fight muslims.

Just because it may not reach the state level of power, does not mean we don't have a growing of insane religious fanatics.

Desperado[1G]
02-14-2009, 13:06
We're not speaking about Christians overall in the United States of America, but Christianity spreading it's poison in the government.

It's always been there. Seperation of Church and State does not mean religion is to be completely absent in government. It merely means that religious belief cannot directly dictate legislation.

Let me ask you, would you support a politician if his policies that were reflective of Atheist belief?


They can also look at history and see the absence of camps indoctrinating children to fight muslims.

Just because it may not reach the state level of power, does not mean we don't have a growing of insane religious fanatics.

"growing of insane religious fanatics"?

I'm not even going to bother. Trying to speak with someone using that level of hyperbole would be a complete waste of time.

saltwaterteffy
02-14-2009, 13:07
By the looks of it, yeah. I remember reading "In God We Trust" on your currency, presidents and other officials yelling "God bless America" and the teaching of Creationism in schools. Religion is not something that your dear officials are keeping within themselves.



Really? Source please.

Edit: http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/summer97/secular.html
An interesting read.

yea its nothing new to me. USA: Country of double standards!

Nasty
02-14-2009, 13:07
Biggest islamic minority group here. Severly overrepresented in crime and welfare abuse. So many hate our lifestyle, yet they wanna live here. Ideally without contributing anything except polarization and forcing their own customs on us instead of showing gratitude or willingness to adapt.

Badem
02-14-2009, 13:10
I have no concerns with doing this, nor do I care, remember

In wars, fools kill other fools for foolish causes

Gibsnag
02-14-2009, 13:22
;2685220']
Let me ask you, would you support a politician if his policies that were reflective of Atheist belief?

There is no 'Atheist belief'. Stop trying to compare a lack of faith, to faith based organisations.

saltwaterteffy
02-14-2009, 13:24
There is no 'Atheist belief'. Stop trying to compare a lack of faith, to faith based organisations.

atheism doesn't have anything to do with a lack of faith. its just interpreted differently.

Desperado[1G]
02-14-2009, 13:26
There is no 'Atheist belief'. Stop trying to compare a lack of faith, to faith based organisations.

You are making a line between religious beliefs and non-religious beliefs. What do you believe is a religious belief? What is the difference between a religious belief and a non-religious belief?

It is as if, since the religious believe in God, their opinions are invalidated.

Hubbell
02-14-2009, 13:36
I'm hearing this more and more and i must say i'm disgusted that Britain is full of so many idiots. This is how the nazis got in power in 1930s germany and look what happened there. They're a group of right wing racists who will only fuck up this country further than what it already is.

I happen to live in an area with a heavy muslim population and the vast majority of them are just your average people.



It is rediculous but its not less stupid then us bending knee to the American governement. It's because we have such strong ties with america that we are the center of so many terrorist plots.

The reason you, and the rest of the West for that matter, are targets of terrorist attacks are cause for decades the West treated the middle east as a gas station where the owner would beat his wife and rape his sister right in front of you, but so long as the gas pump worked and they submitted to our rule to an extent, we didn't care. Fast forward to the present day, and they're still in the same exact place culturally, only rich as fuck and realizing that we aren't masters over them.

StainlessSteelRat
02-14-2009, 13:37
It is rediculous but its not less stupid then us bending knee to the American governement. It's because we have such strong ties with america that we are the center of so many terrorist plots.

You need to learn your history. Before the US became so involved in the ME, Britain was target number 1 b/c of your colonialism. Heathrow was THE airport not to fly through. We took the pressure off you by being bigger foreign policy dicks than England.

Desperado[1G]
02-14-2009, 13:39
bigger dicks than England.

agreed

waofy
02-14-2009, 13:40
While I realise its not an ideal solution I am far from an idiot, shame you need to resort to name calling to prove your point.

English people are losing our civil rights in our own country, were paying taxes so immigants can come here and recieve free health care, schooling, housing, unemployment and child benefits for children not even in this country.

Immigrants are undercutting our workers so severely we can't compete with them due to our cost of living overheads which in turn is increasing unemployment.

Our councils fund the building of mosques with more tax payers money and then the extremists of these groups have meetings in the streets of our own country, celebrate and burn our flag when we are bombed.

They incite racial hatred towards us and encourage people to hate and kill us and you call me a rascist?. The prisons are full to the brim of foreign criminals also putting a strain on already fucked up economy.

Do you think were going to get the cream of another country coming here or the poor and criminal?

I am not a fascist, I'm an Anarchist but I can't see another way out of this situation and I'm starting to get really pissed off with being a second class member of my own country who can't complain because people like you will call me a rascist for airing my opinion.

I'm not standing in the street spouting hatred or telling people to kill muslims or selling videos or books that do the same. We have become too complacent and we need to show the government and the rest of the world we will not tolerate it.

If you have a better solution please enlighten me and perhaps I'll support you.

The problem with the BNP is that they label people "immigrants" and use it as a way of treating them differently. They live, work and pay taxes here so they have as much right as Christian taxpayers to have a place of workship. Stopping political correctness is one thing, but removing the equality of human beings is another.

It also seems contradictory that you call yourself an anarchist yet so strongly support a single nation of people.

Gibsnag
02-14-2009, 13:42
;2685255']You are making a line between religious beliefs and non-religious beliefs. What do you believe is a religious belief? What is the difference between a religious belief and a non-religious belief?

I didn't mention the word religious in my post, for this exact reason. I don't make a distinction between religious faith and non-religious faith. They're both as retarded as one another.

But the label 'atheist' does not describe a belief, or faith. It describes the set of individuals who do not have faith that a theistic deity exists.


;2685255']
It is as if, since the religious believe in God, their opinions are invalidated.

Is this supposed to make me feel sorry for you poor persecuted Christians?


atheism doesn't have anything to do with a lack of faith. its just interpreted differently.

A lack of faith is pretty much the definition of (weak) atheism.

Desperado[1G]
02-14-2009, 13:42
The UK doesn't have a conservative-esque party?

Aragoni
02-14-2009, 13:42
;2685220']It's always been there. Seperation of Church and State does not mean religion is to be completely absent in government. It merely means that religious belief cannot directly dictate legislation.

"practical distinction between Religion and Civil Government is essential to the purity of both, and as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States."
- James Madison


In the United States the "Separation of Church and State" is generally discussed as a political and legal principle derived from the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, which reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . . ." The concept of separation is commonly credited to the combination of the two clauses: the establishment clause, generally interpreted as preventing the government from establishing a national religion, providing tax money in support of religion, or otherwise favoring any single religion or religion generally; and the free exercise clause, ensuring that private religious practices are not restricted by the government. The effect of prohibiting direct connections between religious and governmental institutions while protecting private religious freedom and autonomy has been termed the "separation of church and state."

And the US government isn't favoring Christianity, am I right? A person that sits in the government can be a Christian or whatever, of course, but when he's on public meetings and such when he's a representative of the government he should under no circumstances start to involve his god. It's a violation against the first amendment since when he's on duty, he is part of the government.


;2685220']Let me ask you, would you support a politician if his policies that were reflective of Atheist belief?

I wouldn't care about a person's beliefs as long as he keeps it to himself.
Hell, I'd vote for a Muslim or a Hindu if he'd follows the principles of freedom! ;)

saltwaterteffy
02-14-2009, 13:43
A lack of faith is pretty much the definition of (weak) atheism.

a lack of faith in god, not a lack of faith.

Gibsnag
02-14-2009, 13:45
a lack of faith in god, not a lack of faith.

Ok, yes fair point. My original post was in the context of faith in a god, rather than just faith in anything.

SSguy
02-14-2009, 13:49
;2685220']
"growing of insane religious fanatics"?

I'm not even going to bother. Trying to speak with someone using that level of hyperbole would be a complete waste of time.

Pretentious prick eh? You've never posted tired?

Would you prefer "growth of the insanely religious and fanatical population"?

But hey, atleast you'd make a great politician....completly overlook the point, dodge the issue, change subject, and insult while you're at it.

saltwaterteffy
02-14-2009, 13:53
Pretentious prick eh? You've never posted tired?

Would you prefer "growth of the insanely religious and fanatical population"?

But hey, atleast you'd make a great politician....completly overlook the point, dodge the issue, change subject, and insult while you're at it.

you just described human nature.

Desperado[1G]
02-14-2009, 13:54
I didn't mention the word religious in my post, for this exact reason. I don't make a distinction between religious faith and non-religious faith. They're both as retarded as one another.

But the label 'atheist' does not describe a belief, or faith. It describes the set of individuals who do not have faith that a theistic deity exists.

Why do you feel an opinion with religious or non-religious backing is "retarded"? Explain to me how your view is more valid.

Can someone list their beliefs regarding atheism? If yes, they have a doctrine, and therefore a set of religious beliefs.

DarkLily
02-14-2009, 13:56
;2685294']The UK doesn't have a conservative-esque party?

Our 2nd biggest party is the Conservatives. Will probably win next election cause Labour have been in power to the point people are pissed off with them. They pretty much just take turns.

As for religion in politics, Tony Blair (previous Prime Minister) used to hide the fact he went to church on Sundays for fear of being considered a religious nutter by the country. Pretty much says it all for how highly regarded any form of faith is held in the UK.

Aragoni
02-14-2009, 13:56
;2685323']Why do you feel an opinion with religious or non-religious backing is "retarded"? Explain to me how your view is more valid.

Can someone list their beliefs regarding atheism? If yes, they have a doctrine, and therefore a set of religious beliefs.

Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a haircolour.

Stomrane
02-14-2009, 13:58
The problem with the BNP is that they label people "immigrants" and use it as a way of treating them differently. They live, work and pay taxes here so they have as much right as Christian taxpayers to have a place of workship. Stopping political correctness is one thing, but removing the equality of human beings is another.


I cannot speak for Britain, but in Australia an immigrant will get significantly more in government benefits in the form of direct income payments than a pensioner who payed taxes all their life to the Australian government. Then on top of that they get subsidised school costs, payments to learn Australia's predominant language(everyone born here ofc has to pay for this priviledge) and subsidised living costs ie: rent.

So if you want to talk equality....

Desperado[1G]
02-14-2009, 14:00
Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a haircolour.

You cannot disprove God
I cannot prove God

If I say I believe in God, do you believe I am right or wrong?

Gibsnag
02-14-2009, 14:09
;2685323']Why do you feel an opinion with religious or non-religious backing is "retarded"? Explain to me how your view is more valid.

Fucking hell, I said that 'faith' either religious ("I believe in God") or non-religious ("I believe in ghosts") is equally retarded. Not opinions.


;2685323']
Can someone list their beliefs regarding atheism? If yes, they have a doctrine, and therefore a set of religious beliefs.

Thats kind of the point. You can't list beliefs regarding atheism. Its a label, not a philosophy.

kingpin
02-14-2009, 14:10
it pisses me off that great powers like UK fall victims to the muslim and retarded non muslim pseudoarguments.

i can understand this by small countries with limited restistance potential, like Denmark, but UK? i wanted to believe that at least some countries would hold their ground and wouldn't take that shit.

Europe needs a massive right wing movement and soon, before our beloved countries become as shitty as the muslim countries those immigrants left from in the first place.

it's good i still have a plan B, move to Canada.

Aragoni
02-14-2009, 14:14
;2685334']You cannot disprove God
I cannot prove God

If I say I believe in God, do you believe I am right or wrong?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion
Read a little. :)
Atheism is (usually, there are exceptions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheism for example) a lack of religion.

Desperado[1G]
02-14-2009, 14:18
Fucking hell, I said that 'faith' either religious ("I believe in God") or non-religious ("I believe in ghosts") is equally retarded. Not opinions.

I see, you were just trolling. I'll drop it then.




Thats kind of the point. You can't list beliefs regarding atheism. Its a label, not a philosophy.


athe·ism
Pronunciation:
\ˈā-thē-ˌi-zəm\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Middle French athéisme, from athée atheist, from Greek atheos godless, from a- + theos god
Date:
1546

a: a disbelief in the existence of deity b: the doctrine that there is no deity

If someone does not know if God exists or not, how can they believe me to be wrong? Belief that I am wrong means they believe otherwise.

Desperado[1G]
02-14-2009, 14:22
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion
Read a little. :)
Atheism is (usually, there are exceptions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_atheism for example) a lack of religion.

One either:

1.) Believes that something is or does. (Theist)
2.) Believes that something is not or does not. (Atheist)
3.) Has no belief about. (Agnostic)
4.) Is not aware of. (You are not aware of the questioning of God's existence or not, or not even aware of the concept of a God.)

If I understand you correctly, you're misunderstanding the difference between Atheist and Agnostic

Aragoni
02-14-2009, 14:22
If someone does not know if God exists or not, how can they believe me to be wrong? Belief that I am wrong means they believe otherwise.

While I'm an Agnostic it seems I have to go and "defend" Atheism. *sigh*

It's true, no one can bring proof that there is no God (One of the reasons to why I'm an Agnostic). Still, can you prove me wrong if I said that Earth is just a galactic turd that came from a large, pink elephant? No? Exactly.


]One either:

1.) Believes that something is or does. (Theist)
2.) Believes that something is not or does not. (Atheist)
3.) Has no belief about. (Agnostic)
4.) Is not aware of. (You are not aware of the questioning of God's existence or not, or not even aware of the concept of a God.) (Non-sentient beings)

Atheism is a lack of religion. :)
Read the link I posted.

Stomrane
02-14-2009, 14:23
;2685358']

If someone does not know if God exists or not, how can they believe me to be wrong? Belief that I am wrong means they believe otherwise.

Belief assumes fact, I don't believe there is no such thing as a god, I theorise given the lack of evidence to support there is one, therefore I am an Atheist.

Desperado[1G]
02-14-2009, 14:26
Belief assumes fact, I don't believe there is no such thing as a god, I theorise given the lack of evidence to support there is one, therefore I am an Atheist.

Give me an example of something you've done today. Doesn't matter what it is.

Stomrane
02-14-2009, 14:27
;2685381']Give me an example of something you've done today. Doesn't matter what it is.

I celebrated my son's first birthday :D

Aragoni
02-14-2009, 14:30
I celebrated my son's first birthday :D

Congratulations! Hope he will become the new Steve Irwin!

Desperado[1G]
02-14-2009, 14:31
While I'm an Agnostic it seems I have to go and "defend" Atheism. *sigh*

It's true, no one can bring proof that there is no God (One of the reasons to why I'm an Agnostic). Still, can you prove me wrong if I said that Earth is just a galactic turd that came from a large, pink elephant? No? Exactly.

Firstly, I'm not "attacking" anyone. I am merely proving that the "Atheism is not a belief" line of thought is a fallacy.


If someone comes up and says, there is a teapot orbiting between Earth and Mars, what do I do?

- Do I believe?
- Do I disbelieve?
- Do I go agnostic?

- A teapot is a physical thing. Therefore I need physical evidence of some sort that suggest one is in orbit.
- Teapots are not native to space.
- Scientifically no one can throw a teapot into orbit in space from Earth.
- I have no reason to believe that space craft of any sort placed a teapot into orbit.
- I have no reason to believe that a human on a space craft threw a teapot into orbit.

Based on the evidence gathered. I have no reason to believe that there is a teapot in orbit between Earth and Mars. Do I have reason to believe this person is wrong?

- What if this person saw one with a telescope? They saw it in great detail and were sure it was a teapot.
- What if this person was a friend of an astronaut who actually did it?
- What if this person actually did it?

Perhaps, in any of the three situations, this person is unable to prove their claim. Does the inability of this person to prove their claim mean that their claim is false?

Can you honestly tell me, you would believe this person to be wrong? You can say all you want that you do not believe. But how can you say you disbelieve that person. By disbelieve I mean you actually believe the person is wrong?

Not believing a claim is different than believing the claim to be wrong.




Atheism is a lack of religion. :)
Read the link I posted.

Atheism is the belief that there is no higher power. Agnosticism is the lack of belief. You shouldn't trust wikipedia with everything, especially if the issue is controversial. It reeks of political bias.

Desperado[1G]
02-14-2009, 14:32
I celebrated my son's first birthday :D

Prove it.

Razli
02-14-2009, 14:33
I just hate religion full stop. Although, espically Islam and Muslims. I despise them.

Although yes, we get all these EUropeans and Pakistanis that are helping our economy, but still, theres hardly any English people in England.

waofy
02-14-2009, 14:39
it pisses me off that great powers like UK fall victims to the muslim and retarded non muslim pseudoarguments.

i can understand this by small countries with limited restistance potential, like Denmark, but UK? i wanted to believe that at least some countries would hold their ground and wouldn't take that shit.

Europe needs a massive right wing movement and soon, before our beloved countries become as shitty as the muslim countries those immigrants left from in the first place.

it's good i still have a plan B, move to Canada.

Or the human race could grow up and accept that sovereignty over a certain area of land has no moral justification.

Desperado[1G]
02-14-2009, 14:43
Or the human race could grow up and accept that sovereignty over a certain area of land has no moral justification.

Why do you feel it doesn't have a moral justification?

Men have been fighting over resources since our inception. There is no incentive for men to suddenly stop wanting more/better for themselves and their kin.

Stomrane
02-14-2009, 14:45
;2685404']Prove it.

Irrefutable proof? does such a thing exist?
I can provide enough circumstantial evidence in the form of photos, receipts, witnesses, misplaced items etc that in generally accepted terms, ie: legally, I was indeed celebrating my sons birthday.

Hence the reason I said I don't "believe" that god doesn't exist, but with the evidence presented to me, I do not think god does. Just as any sane person presented with the evidence I have would indeed "think" that I was, celebrating my sons birthday.

Hubbell
02-14-2009, 14:47
http://www.weta.org/about/press/releases/37746

Good summary of why muslims/arabs hate the West.

Stomrane
02-14-2009, 14:48
[url]

Good summary of why muslims/arabs hate the West.


They hate each other too, different arab tribes have been infighting for centuries, what's the difference?

Edit: They have also discriminated against Hindu's/Sihk's in India violently and have almost pushed Hindu's/Bhuddists out of Indonesia, so who do they like?

Hubbell
02-14-2009, 14:53
Difference is the middle east is like a big family. Sure you can hate your sister, brother, uncle, etc, and that's fine. But what happens when someone outside the family comes over and hits your sister, makes her his slave, beats up your brother, etc? The family bands together against the common aggressor on their little unit, in this case the middle east.

Desperado[1G]
02-14-2009, 14:53
Irrefutable proof? does such a thing exist?
I can provide enough circumstantial evidence in the form of photos, receipts, witnesses, misplaced items etc that in generally accepted terms, ie: legally, I was indeed celebrating my sons birthday.

Hence the reason I said I don't "believe" that god doesn't exist, but with the evidence presented to me, I do not think god does. Just as any sane person presented with the evidence I have would indeed "think" that I was, celebrating my sons birthday.

I misread your first post. I didn't notice you used a double negative.

Thank you for helping prove my point, however.

waofy
02-14-2009, 14:55
;2685440']Why do you feel it doesn't have a moral justification?

Nations only ever lead to segregation of people who find themselves on someone elses "territory". It's like gang culture but on the scale of the world.

Desperado[1G]
02-14-2009, 14:59
Nations only ever lead to segregation of people who find themselves on someone elses "territory". It's like gang culture but on the scale of the world.

So you believe it is wrong to segregate the world, that we should all share everything?

waofy
02-14-2009, 15:00
;2685498']So you believe it is wrong to segregate the world, that we should all share everything?

Pretty much, yup.

Hubbell
02-14-2009, 15:01
Pretty much, yup.

Dumbest thing I've heard in months.

Desperado[1G]
02-14-2009, 15:02
How would you remove the basic emotion of self-interest from mankind? Is that even possible without an iron-fist?

I don't think it is.

waofy
02-14-2009, 15:06
;2685521']How would you remove the basic emotion of self-interest from mankind? Is that even possible without an iron-fist?

I don't think it is.

In my first post I said humans need to "grow up". Yeah you're right it probably isn't possible without a world dictatorship or some sort because of everyone's current mindset, but cultures change over time.

Ruinous
02-14-2009, 15:18
The whole situation in the UK (& much of the rest of the EU I imagine) makes me think we are being subject to conquest by immigration. Eventually muslim/islamic interests in our countries will be so large they'll no longer be a minority and our country will be 'islamic'.

We are already economically at ransom, with our the majority of our infrastructure being foreign owned now. Our culture and heritage are so eroded there is little 'Great' left in Britain.

kingpin
02-14-2009, 15:25
Or the human race could grow up and accept that sovereignty over a certain area of land has no moral justification.

or the muslims should get over the fact that their countries are shit and we won't allow our own to become like theirs. they should try to improve their own and do with them as they please, not change our ways.

and they should also get over the fact that west culture and way of life and basically everything is superior in every way imaginable and we won't change so they don't feel inferior to us.

and they should also understand that when you're in Rome, you do as the romans do.

and also fuck it, like we have to explain to muslims what we intend to do with out own countries.

Kusghuul
02-14-2009, 15:26
Don't see what's wrong with it. Better than pissing them off, i guess. But a tad unecessary.

Desperado[1G]
02-14-2009, 15:27
In my first post I said humans need to "grow up". Yeah you're right it probably isn't possible without a world dictatorship or some sort because of everyone's current mindset, but cultures change over time.

I don't believe self-interest is the product of any culture. It's inherent in every being.

kingpin
02-14-2009, 15:30
Pretty much, yup.

you share your own property with your neighbour, and then come tutor us about sharing.

Rilman
02-14-2009, 15:37
Although yes, we get all these EUropeans and Pakistanis that are helping our economy, but still, theres hardly any English people in England.

I keep hearing this but I'm really honestly at a loss as to how they help our economy, please read my 2nd post of page 1.

Harsher
02-14-2009, 16:07
;2684620']The once proud country has been reduced to running ads on Pakistani television, begging Muslim bullies to leave it alone on the grounds that Britain is becoming Islamized. The taxpayer is putting up £400,000 to finance the campaign.

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/Dont-attack-us-please-UK-ads-to-say-on-Pak-TV/421654/

Political correctness advances Islam more effectively than any suicide bomber could ever hope to.

better tools to Islam then godless atheists amirite?

Sharuk
02-14-2009, 16:32
To them asking for peace is a sign of weakness

Who Dares Wins
02-14-2009, 18:10
Bnp, bnp, bnp!

[O]_Fawkes
02-14-2009, 18:18
Thought all Brits were Christians.

Hypseos
02-14-2009, 18:18
Nothing wrong with this. When you are fighting these kind of suicide fuckwits every trick in the book is legit. 400,000 quid is pennies compared to the usual waste you find it British bureaucracy.

As for pride. Pride went down the pan with the Empire. If we want to keep our head above the water we can’t afford that sort of stuff any time soon.

slugy
02-14-2009, 18:31
_Fawkes;2686599']Thought all Brits were Christians.

thats the yanks.

also, if they dont attack us, they will attack america instead.

we need some hardcore attacks over here imo
get all the chavs plz.

tysn.

Rilman
02-14-2009, 18:33
thats the yanks.

also, if they dont attack us, they will attack america instead.

we need some hardcore attacks over here imo
get all the chavs plz.

tysn.

lol, unfortuately terrorists don't tend to make council estates theyr'e main target.

Lysandor
02-14-2009, 18:53
Give the power back to the throne. Peasants are stupid.

HauptmannHP
02-14-2009, 18:57
Edit: And... Great Britain was a whole empire that reached all around the globe. Shouldn't it be "United Kingdom"?

I think Great Britain refers to the island which consists of England, Wales and Scotland. Basically meaning UK minus Northern Ireland and probably a few island groups, like the Faroe Islands and Channel Islands.

Gibsnag
02-14-2009, 19:18
Give the power back to the throne. Peasants are stupid.

Our royals are fucking morons anyway. I don't think I'd trust the current crop of inbred smacktards any more than the standard chav.

Jackhowitzer
02-14-2009, 19:34
All English people know who they need to vote for to stop this madness, theyv'e just got to get off there asses and do it.

I am deffinately not a rascist but this country is letting other people take the piss now, wev'e got 2-3 million unemployed and people from other countries are undercutting English people, its not a case of 'ahh English lazy bastards don't want to work' anymore its a case of Europeans hanging around building sites offereing to work 12 hour days for £25 a day, we can't compete.

The time has come to close the borders and evict the disruptive, muslims included. Its time for a bit of British Nationalist Party, even if its for one term to show all these soppy Liberals that we wont put up with our rights being jumped all over.

Just lol. You are an idiot.

Poacher
02-14-2009, 20:10
I too am greatly saddened by the United Kingdom being crippled by political correctness. It's utter bullshit and everyone knows it. There is a small group of rabidly "liberal" people who campaign constantly to ban (how liberal, lol) all these things they think are not politically correct...

It takes a man with serious balls to stand up against the moral high ground in public, and sadly British politics can't even produce an average politician these days let alone an extraordinary one.

I hate to admit it, but Great Britain is in extremely deep shit these days, and the bastards doing it think they're making it better.

Roland44
02-14-2009, 20:20
Same thing is happening here in the States with the Mexican/South American illegals pouring into the country...over a 10 year period my wife and I have watched it happen with growing and growing concern. We've written every political representative we have about the problem to little or no avail.

I'm perfectly fine with "legal" immigration, to allow those that are honest and want to work and a better life for themselves and their family. But they need to be "documented" and legal, if for no other reason than to keep the criminal element out. (though there are other reasons)

The ability of massive amounts of undocumented people to be able to pour across our boarders is not only a security issue but changing the very fabric and culture of our country.

I'm sorry to see that other areas of the world are equally challenged.

It's not a racist thing, it's simple logic that deals with a limited amount of resources and aid. They come here and pop out babies left and right and flood the medical system and school system (all for free) and then expect government aid to help feed them and pay rent. It's crazy is what it is...

I know what the answer is and how to do it in a humanitarian/non lethal way...but I've given up hope that there will ever be a political leader here in America that will make the hard choice, roll the hard 6 and do what needs to be done.

Same can be said for the bastardization of our country's manufacturing infrastructure and economy. We have little or no manufacturing or means to do so left in the country, it's been gutted, decimated by opportunist that care only for the short term profit margin who have sold resources here and sent the work out of the country for cheap labor and tax shelters/avoidance.

I see these issues and problems daily and know in my mind and my heart what needs so desperately to be done for my country's survival and future...and know that I alone have no power to make it happen. I can talk to friends, send letters, write blogs and chat on game sites (heh) all the while knowing it's far from enough.

The global situation is dire, the 3rd world masses are migrating to all the more prosperous regions they can. These countries and areas will buckle eventually under the strain. They're simple unequipped and not designed to handle a situation of this magnitude.

All the while China pours tons of resources and finances into it's Military programs, Russia has increased it's military spending as well...why? Who's their main threat? Are either really worried about be invaded or attacked directly?

If not...why the build up (especially Russia's naval fleet)

Add to all this the global economy, the changes in climate (man made or natural) and we've got ourselves quite the conundrum imo

I guess we'll all keep trying to take it day by day, have as bright an existence as we can, as much happiness and purpose as we can squeeze out...till it all come crashing down.

And then the real game will begin ;)

Regards 2 All

tallefred
02-14-2009, 20:52
Here comes Fascism. You won't like it when you have it.

Jezrith
02-14-2009, 20:57
There is no 'Atheist belief'. Stop trying to compare a lack of faith, to faith based organisations.

Are you trying to tell people atheism isn't a belief?

m0j0mann
02-14-2009, 21:29
Yeah, but Hitler solved the jew problem didn't he?

Forumfall, forumfall, forumfall.....

m0j0mann
02-14-2009, 21:55
I see nothing wrong with this action. It's pragmatic, it's strategic, and it's cheap. It seems idiotic to cede any ground in the propoganda-war with the crazy mullahs.

As far as immigrants are concerned, I want more of them. Lots more. A greater influx of Pakistanis means a greater anti-american voting bloc. This bloc (which is already very large) might lay dormant for a while, but it shouldn't be long before one of the major parties (I'm guessing the lib dems) takes advantage of it and rides to victory.

Then at last, we'll have a government that doesn't feel the need to kiss the US's ass on every single goddamn foreign policy issue that arises.

Then we won't even need a "please don't attack us" message.

This article indicates that the UK's muslim populating is growing 10 times faster than the rest of society:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article5621482.ece

growth of 500,000 in four years, bringing the total population to approximately 2.5 million.
2.5 million highly-politicized people.

Considering the fact that apathy is on the rise, that 2.5 million (still growing, btw) is going to become a huge factor in politics in the future.

Even more epic lulz will ensue when (and if) Turkey joins the E.U.

KKTHNXBAI, "special relationship"..... ^_^

Matthieus
02-14-2009, 22:00
tarrists turned great britain into there bitch?

Jezrith
02-14-2009, 22:06
As far as immigrants are concerned, I want more of them. Lots more. A greater influx of Pakistanis means a greater anti-american voting bloc. This bloc (which is already very large) might lay dormant for a while, but it shouldn't be long before one of the major parties (I'm guessing the lib dems) takes advantage of it and rides to victory.

Then at last, we'll have a government that doesn't feel the need to kiss the US's ass on every single goddamn foreign policy issue that arises.


LOL... basing your internal politics of off American politics! HA! How far Ol' Blighty has sunk indeed...

Poacher
02-14-2009, 22:10
LOL... basing your internal politics of off American politics! HA! How far Ol' Blighty has sunk indeed...

Sadly, the amount of British people who like being British has greatly diminished in these years :( None of our politicians have any balls to do their own thing, they even listen to the fucking PC Brigade!

m0j0mann
02-14-2009, 22:14
LOL... basing your internal politics of off American politics! HA! How far Ol' Blighty has sunk indeed...

Foreign policy not internal policy. Muslims aren't known to be generally pro-socialist of pro-capitalist, so it's not like they'll cripple our economy with their elecoral decisions. All I know is that a large muslim demographic will change our foreign policy for the better.

As for basing electoral decisions off of other countries'.....Wasn't "improving America's image in the world" one of Obama's key selling points?

And yes, we have sunk. We've been your sidekicks for too long. Perhaps the muslims can change that.

m0j0mann
02-14-2009, 22:15
tarrists turned great britain into there bitch?

Nah, America did. :D

Poacher
02-14-2009, 22:16
And yes, we have sunk. We've been your sidekicks for too long. Perhaps the muslims can change that.

The Iraq/Afghanistan thing was a terrible idea, that I agree with, but there are far greater problems within our own borders that are pulling us down with greater strength than following America into war.

m0j0mann
02-14-2009, 22:18
The Iraq/Afghanistan thing was a terrible idea, that I agree with, but there are far greater problems within our own borders that are pulling us down with greater strength than following America into war.

What problems? Are you referring to the economy? Our economy is just as fucked up as everyone elses is at the moment, no more, no less.
It will right itself in time. My only interest in politics is foreign policy. That's the area that has the most potential for positive change, in the post-cold war world.

StainlessSteelRat
02-14-2009, 22:18
"practical distinction between Religion and Civil Government is essential to the purity of both, and as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States."
- James Madison

And the US government isn't favoring Christianity, am I right? A person that sits in the government can be a Christian or whatever, of course, but when he's on public meetings and such when he's a representative of the government he should under no circumstances start to involve his god. It's a violation against the first amendment since when he's on duty, he is part of the government.

That's not what the Constitution actually says. You are misinterpreting.

They can't show bias in any way shape or form. But take, for example, school vouchers. That is a perfect example of government money being used for religious intsitutions that many claim goes against the Constitution. It doesn't. So long as vouchers are used on behalf of any student for any school, separation of church and state remains. The funds benefit the student, the student chooses how to use the money.

Any elected official will be influenced by their beliefs. This, again, is not contrary to separation of church and state. There can be no state run church and there can be no church running the state. There can be no laws whose criteria are based on religion. That is what the Constitution says.

We, the people, are free to elect or not elect someone who 'talks to God' or is opposed to abortion b/c of their religion. It doesn't matter what the source of their views are.

Poacher
02-14-2009, 22:24
What problems? Are you referring to the economy? Our economy is just as fucked up as everyone elses is at the moment, no more, no less.
It will right itself in time. My only interest in politics is foreign policy. That's the area that has the most potential for positive change, in the post-cold war world.

The problems I'm getting at are such things as discipline problems in schools, the incapacity benefit generation still lingering around, our country having the highest teenage pregnancy rate in Europe, political correctness punishing the majority to make comfy anyone who pulls the oppressed minority card to get what they want, which in turn causes bigotry amongst the majority as they label all members of minority groups as whining, selfish pricks, our two main political parties being almost identical these days...

Those are what I can call up right now, I doubt it's an exhaustive list...

StainlessSteelRat
02-14-2009, 22:33
I see nothing wrong with this action. It's pragmatic, it's strategic, and it's cheap. It seems idiotic to cede any ground in the propoganda-war with the crazy mullahs.

As far as immigrants are concerned, I want more of them. Lots more. A greater influx of Pakistanis means a greater anti-american voting bloc. This bloc (which is already very large) might lay dormant for a while, but it shouldn't be long before one of the major parties (I'm guessing the lib dems) takes advantage of it and rides to victory.

Then at last, we'll have a government that doesn't feel the need to kiss the US's ass on every single goddamn foreign policy issue that arises.

Then we won't even need a "please don't attack us" message.

This article indicates that the UK's muslim populating is growing 10 times faster than the rest of society:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article5621482.ece

growth of 500,000 in four years, bringing the total population to approximately 2.5 million.
2.5 million highly-politicized people.

Considering the fact that apathy is on the rise, that 2.5 million (still growing, btw) is going to become a huge factor in politics in the future.

Even more epic lulz will ensue when (and if) Turkey joins the E.U.

KKTHNXBAI, "special relationship"..... ^_^

rofl, you too should learn some history. Our current foreign policy just picked up where England left off when they couldn't hack it anymore. Most of our messes today were created by England yesterday; especially w/ regards to arabs.

Please, take all the immigrants you want; take back YOUR foreign policy for US too while you are at it. Most Americans never wanted it and today most are kept too stupid, fat, and happy to realize wtf is/has happened.

m0j0mann
02-14-2009, 22:36
The problems I'm getting at are such things as discipline problems in schools, the incapacity benefit generation still lingering around, our country having the highest teenage pregnancy rate in Europe, political correctness punishing the majority to make comfy anyone who pulls the oppressed minority card to get what they want, which in turn causes bigotry amongst the majority as they label all members of minority groups as whining, selfish pricks, our two main political parties being almost identical these days...

Those are what I can call up right now, I doubt it's an exhaustive list...

Whatev. I don't consider those to be huge problems, but no doubt some people do. Nevertheless, our foreign policy is also a problem, in my opinion, a very large one, and the immigrant influx might well solve it.

m0j0mann
02-14-2009, 22:38
rofl, you too should learn some history. Our current foreign policy just picked up where England left off when they couldn't hack it anymore. Most of our messes today were created by England yesterday; especially w/ regards to arabs.

Please, take all the immigrants you want; take back YOUR foreign policy for US too while you are at it. Most Americans never wanted it and today most are kept too stupid, fat, and happy to realize wtf is/has happened.

Wait, so the muslim voting bloc will turn us back into imperialists? OMFG! :ohno:

L2comprehend. It doesn't matter if the US or the UK started it, it'll end, at least in the UK, with a large anti-american voting bloc.

And if it doesn't end, it will at least suffer some heavy blows.

Poacher
02-14-2009, 22:44
Wait, so the muslim voting bloc will turn us back into imperialists? OMFG! :ohno:

L2comprehend. It doesn't matter if the US or the UK started it, it'll end, at least in the UK, with a large anti-american voting bloc.

And if it doesn't end, it will at least suffer some heavy blows.

We get the British Empire back? I'm in!

Edit: in response to your reply to my list of issues, you may not see them as a large problem on the international scale, but they're certainly fucking this country up. Foreign Policy is also an important area, ofcourse, and I agree we mustn't blindly follow where America leads, I'd be happier being closer to Europe tbh, but the EU is pretty crap in terms of being a unified political body right now.

Morar
02-14-2009, 22:49
rofl, you too should learn some history. Our current foreign policy just picked up where England left off when they couldn't hack it anymore. Most of our messes today were created by England yesterday; especially w/ regards to arabs.

Please, take all the immigrants you want; take back YOUR foreign policy for US too while you are at it. Most Americans never wanted it and today most are kept too stupid, fat, and happy to realize wtf is/has happened.

This is priceless...

US foreign policy picked up where England left off, and England created today's problems...
So the US are creating tomorrow's problems today - and you're proud of it.

Morons talking politics. You sure got that whole history thing down npnp.

Jezrith
02-14-2009, 22:57
Foreign policy not internal policy. Muslims aren't known to be generally pro-socialist of pro-capitalist, so it's not like they'll cripple our economy with their elecoral decisions. All I know is that a large muslim demographic will change our foreign policy for the better.


The people who run your foreign policy are the same people who run your internal policies. Having a pro-muslim base doesn't change any of that. You are still basing your internal policies off of American politics...

Poacher
02-14-2009, 23:07
The people who run your foreign policy are the same people who run your internal policies. Having a pro-muslim base doesn't change any of that. You are still basing your internal policies off of American politics...

The British do not base their internal politics on US internal politics, I don't see where you can even begin to argue that case...

m0j0mann
02-14-2009, 23:20
We get the British Empire back? I'm in!

Edit: in response to your reply to my list of issues, you may not see them as a large problem on the international scale, but they're certainly fucking this country up. Foreign Policy is also an important area, ofcourse, and I agree we mustn't blindly follow where America leads, I'd be happier being closer to Europe tbh, but the EU is pretty crap in terms of being a unified political body right now.

Well, of the issues you mentioned, disclipine in schools, teen pregnancy, and the welfare generation are not influenced one way or the other by a large muslim/immigrant population.
In fact, Indian/Pakistani cultures place a lot of emphasis on hard work and learning, so you could predict that they will improve the school-disclipine problem, as well as the welfare problem.

As for political correctness, the UK government only needs to worry about that while it maintains it's pro-US foreign policy.

If, for example, the UK was to break with the US and put it's foot down hard on Israel, the muslim population would probably be in such adoration of whichever political party orchestrated it, they wouldn't really give a shit if that party also did something "un-PC" like letting Geert Wilders into the country.

Ragnar Dragonfyre
02-14-2009, 23:25
it pisses me off that great powers like UK fall victims to the muslim and retarded non muslim pseudoarguments.

i can understand this by small countries with limited restistance potential, like Denmark, but UK? i wanted to believe that at least some countries would hold their ground and wouldn't take that shit.

Europe needs a massive right wing movement and soon, before our beloved countries become as shitty as the muslim countries those immigrants left from in the first place.

it's good i still have a plan B, move to Canada.

What's happening in Britain is slowly happening in Canada too.

It's far too easy for people to move into Canada and continue living the same life they lived wherever they came from. They don't need to adapt, they simply demand that we change for them.

There was a big stir in Toronto when someone put in a human rights complaint against City Hall for putting up a Christmas Tree. Then calls for the Santa Claus Parade to be canceled because it's politically incorrect. Absolutely unreal.

The biggest offender is that we allow people to move here without learning the language. How can you possibly contribute to our society if you cannot communicate with it?

Poacher
02-14-2009, 23:28
I don't think it's Muslims that put weight behind the PC movement to be honest, most of them are happy that we make room for them and recognise that it does go too far in many cases.

It's self-righteous pricks (of any and all races/groups) that think they're modern and tolerant, not only the minorities for complaining but those that lobby for them also.

PC isn't really an American problem, they bombard their immigrants with so much American patriotism that they're drowned under a sea of "American dream".

The UK is also unlikely, even if we break with the US, to take an anti-Isreal stance. Perhaps not a comitted pro-Isreal stance, but hardly an anti-Isreal stance.

m0j0mann
02-14-2009, 23:44
I don't think it's Muslims that put weight behind the PC movement to be honest, most of them are happy that we make room for them and recognise that it does go too far in many cases.

It's self-righteous pricks (of any and all races/groups) that think they're modern and tolerant, not only the minorities for complaining but those that lobby for them also.

PC isn't really an American problem, they bombard their immigrants with so much American patriotism that they're drowned under a sea of "American dream".

Well if there's no significant support behind it, I don't see how it can last for very long.


The UK is also unlikely, even if we break with the US, to take an anti-Isreal stance. Perhaps not a comitted pro-Isreal stance, but hardly an anti-Isreal stance.

It may seem unlikely now, but I wouldn't be so sure:

http://timesonline.typepad.com/politics/2009/01/israeli-pm-is-a.html

One of those politicians was the leader of the Liberal Democrats only 2 years ago. I don't think it should be long untill a sitting leader of a political party begins to echo his views.
More importantly, I don't think it should be long before MP candidates from the mainstream parties begin to actively use the Israeli/Palestinian issue as a potent grassroots weapon.

Poacher
02-14-2009, 23:51
More importantly, I don't think it should be long before MP candidates from the mainstream parties begin to actively use the Israeli/Palestinian issue as a potent grassroots weapon.

Perhaps, but as a weapon alone. Currently UK stance towards Israel is pro-Israel thanks to the US, but I think if we break from the US we'd condemn Israel (most in the UK do anyway) but not really attempt to take positive action against them.

Jezrith
02-14-2009, 23:53
The British do not base their internal politics on US internal politics, I don't see where you can even begin to argue that case...

If you read the thread you will see were mojoman was doing exactly that. Your country went from the "sun never sets on our limey asses" to "we need more Muslims so we can be more anti-america", sad really...

Poacher
02-15-2009, 00:02
If you read the thread you will see were mojoman was doing exactly that. Your country went from the "sun never sets on our limey asses" to "we need more Muslims so we can be more anti-america", sad really...

Sad that we handed control of the world to a nation that can collectively muster about 7 braincells amongst them? Yes, yes indeed.

Pointless insults aside, since when was the UK opinion on life "More Muslims to make us anti-US!". Who the fuck do you think you are? We don't need Muslims to be anti-US! We certainly don't let Muslims into the country just to be anti-US, they bring many benefits.

People like you are the reason most British dislike the Americans. :(

Jezrith
02-15-2009, 00:11
Sad that we handed control of the world to a nation that can collectively muster about 7 braincells amongst them? Yes, yes indeed.

Pointless insults aside, since when was the UK opinion on life "More Muslims to make us anti-US!". Who the fuck do you think you are? We don't need Muslims to be anti-US! We certainly don't let Muslims into the country just to be anti-US, they bring many benefits.



You are going to make a shitty insult about lacking brain cells when you can't even fucking read and comprehend the thread? You are obviously King Retard on that little island of yours.



People like you are the reason most British dislike the Americans. :(

And people like you are why so many people assume everyone is an idiot.

wolfclaw67
02-15-2009, 00:13
Funny thing is that will probably only increase the likelihood of a terrorist attack on the UK.


I hope it happens, the British flame the US 24/7, i hope they all die

smason
02-15-2009, 00:13
Whatev. I don't consider those to be huge problems, but no doubt some people do. Nevertheless, our foreign policy is also a problem, in my opinion, a very large one, and the immigrant influx might well solve it.

I love your sig, kind of makes me want to be puke. Your change master has done nothing for us but the same crap that we have had in the past.

He has put the same washington insiders in office that he said he wouldnt.

Hes trying to take control of the census from the commerce department and putting it at the hands of the white house, which is a huge mistake for any kind of democracy.

Hes trying to make the presidents term longer while he is in office.

Also he cant piss without asking pelosi to move her hand off his nuts, since she has him by the balls and leading him around by his dick.

These are just a few things off the top of the list. He still cant stop bad mouthing the past admin, i mean come on if a house is on fire do you put it out then worry about what started it or try to figure out what casued it while it burns?

The campaign is over and we still dont have a birth certificate for him and there is no listing of his donations for his campaign over 2k. This guy was bout and paid for and now all we have is a mouth piece in office.

The really sad thing about it is that the powers used his race to get him in office. I would hate to be black after his term is over, hes going to be a dissapoint to there race, first black (well hes 20 percent black but thats enuff for the mass to make him full black) to be president and he falls on his face.

kingpin
02-15-2009, 00:15
What's happening in Britain is slowly happening in Canada too.

It's far too easy for people to move into Canada and continue living the same life they lived wherever they came from. They don't need to adapt, they simply demand that we change for them.

There was a big stir in Toronto when someone put in a human rights complaint against City Hall for putting up a Christmas Tree. Then calls for the Santa Claus Parade to be canceled because it's politically incorrect. Absolutely unreal.

The biggest offender is that we allow people to move here without learning the language. How can you possibly contribute to our society if you cannot communicate with it?

why everything beautiful has to be destroyed by those people...there goes my plan B.

plan C is Russia. russians don't take that shit. i'll buy myself a hut somewhere deep in siberia.

Poacher
02-15-2009, 00:16
This is just becoming another Us/Brit bashing thread :(

The point is that Muslims may facilitate the UK breaking off this relationship with the US and making our own foreign policy. Atleast that's my understanding of the argument thus far...

Jezrith
02-15-2009, 00:24
This is just becoming another Us/Brit bashing thread :(

The point is that Muslims may facilitate the UK breaking off this relationship with the US and making our own foreign policy. Atleast that's my understanding of the argument thus far...

The discussion that Mojomann and I were having was about him wanting more immigrants to further an anti-US sentiment in your government. Meaning, the most important thing to him is to counter US policy, this is basing your political views off of US policy and not internal UK policy. A Brit 60 years ago would be insulted by such a concept.

PirateGlen
02-15-2009, 00:25
I love your sig, kind of makes me want to be puke. Your change master has done nothing for us but the same crap that we have had in the past.

He has put the same washington insiders in office that he said he wouldnt.

Hes trying to take control of the census from the commerce department and putting it at the hands of the white house, which is a huge mistake for any kind of democracy.

Hes trying to make the presidents term longer while he is in office.

Also he cant piss without asking pelosi to move her hand off his nuts, since she has him by the balls and leading him around by his dick.

These are just a few things off the top of the list. He still cant stop bad mouthing the past admin, i mean come on if a house is on fire do you put it out then worry about what started it or try to figure out what casued it while it burns?

The campaign is over and we still dont have a birth certificate for him and there is no listing of his donations for his campaign over 2k. This guy was bout and paid for and now all we have is a mouth piece in office.

The really sad thing about it is that the powers used his race to get him in office. I would hate to be black after his term is over, hes going to be a dissapoint to there race, first black (well hes 20 percent black but thats enuff for the mass to make him full black) to be president and he falls on his face.

Every single post I see you make seems to, as impossible as it sounds, make you look more stupid than before.

smason
02-15-2009, 00:38
Every single post I see you make seems to, as impossible as it sounds, make you look more stupid than before.

If you followed what was going on you would know what you highlighted is correct.

Under all the change he promised will be alot of change but not what we want i can promise you that, its already starting to show slowly.

Try to buy any ammunition recently? Price has gone up 600 % if the stores have any at all.

I see you live in CA so i can guess your polotics...... so you would disagree with me and thats ok, but one day your going to have to wake up and see what is really going on out there.

I feal for the brits, i dont think there much better off then we are.

PirateGlen
02-15-2009, 00:49
If you followed what was going on you would know what you highlighted is correct.

Under all the change he promised will be alot of change but not what we want i can promise you that, its already starting to show slowly.

Try to buy any ammunition recently? Price has gone up 600 % if the stores have any at all.

I see you live in CA so i can guess your polotics...... so you would disagree with me and thats ok, but one day your going to have to wake up and see what is really going on out there.

I feal for the brits, i dont think there much better off then we are.

Here's his birth certificate. This is the 2nd time I've said you're wrong on this.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/obama-birth.html

Any change in ammunition price has purely market forces. No such law has changed the price. Why don't you bring sources to back up your bullshit?

m0j0mann
02-15-2009, 00:56
I love your sig, kind of makes me want to be puke. Your change master has done nothing for us but the same crap that we have had in the past.


My sig is comedy, i'm no Obama fanboi. But seeing as you're so clearly butthurt about the election, and seeing as I dislike Republicans above all other creatures, here is a specially-made YTMND just for people like you:

http://epicdemocrat.ytmnd.com/

Roland44
02-15-2009, 00:57
Wait, so the muslim voting bloc will turn us back into imperialists? OMFG! :ohno:

L2comprehend. It doesn't matter if the US or the UK started it, it'll end, at least in the UK, with a large anti-american voting bloc.

And if it doesn't end, it will at least suffer some heavy blows.

wow, so your saying that you'd sell out your country to mass amounts of immigrants just to get what you hope will be an anti-American vote?

Or are you not a native of Britain/England or consider it your home?

edit: actually i may of got mixed up through the now 9 pages of posts, I had thought you were from the UK, if I'm wrong I'm sorry ;)

m0j0mann
02-15-2009, 00:58
The discussion that Mojomann and I were having was about him wanting more immigrants to further an anti-US sentiment in your government. Meaning, the most important thing to him is to counter US policy, this is basing your political views off of US policy and not internal UK policy. A Brit 60 years ago would be insulted by such a concept.

Well then the Brit 60 years ago can shove it. Though really, I can't imagine why he'd be insulted at the notion of not being the US's poodle on the global stage.

m0j0mann
02-15-2009, 00:59
sell out your country to mass amounts of immigrants

phear johhny-foreigner! He will steel yer jawbz and eet yer baybees!



edit: actually i may of got mixed up through the now 9 pages of posts, I had thought you were from the UK, if I'm wrong I'm sorry

London.

PirateGlen
02-15-2009, 00:59
The discussion that Mojomann and I were having was about him wanting more immigrants to further an anti-US sentiment in your government. Meaning, the most important thing to him is to counter US policy, this is basing your political views off of US policy and not internal UK policy. A Brit 60 years ago would be insulted by such a concept.

He could likely be of the opinion that the past 60 years of policy was failed policy worth changing.

Villa
02-15-2009, 01:06
I sometimes feel ashamed of being British since our country has been pussified by political correctness more than any other country.

Yeah but I really fucking hate political correctness.

EDIT: What I also hate is when I can't do or say something around certain people because of their religion, we're not all religious and if you don't like that get the fuck out of our country.
Wait a minute, it's not possible to be English AND religious?

m0j0mann
02-15-2009, 01:08
Ah, Villa! I was wondering when you'd show up :D

Neat new sig, the quote is from "Lawrence of Arabia" isn't it?

Villa
02-15-2009, 01:08
I hope it happens, the British flame the US 24/7, i hope they all die

Oh nose - genocidal Nazi alert :(

Roland44
02-15-2009, 01:10
phear johhny-foreigner! He will steel yer jawbz and eet yer baybees!

No but he will sit on his ass and play the entitlement card every chance he gets (not all will but enough to validate the argument), suck the welfare system, the educational system, the health system dry...all the while waving their old country's flag and decrying America and demanding their so-called "rights" as illegal aliens.

And I'm not generalizing, I've seen this happen in my own city...I see it every where I go.

If you're happy with it fine, but that sure as hell doesn't mean I have to be.

m0j0mann
02-15-2009, 01:10
Oh nose - genocidal Nazi alert :(

Actually, that would be this dude:


Yeah, but Hitler solved the jew problem didn't he?

Rilman
02-15-2009, 01:13
Just lol. You are an idiot.

Yeah thanks for your highly intellectual input.

Villa
02-15-2009, 01:14
No but he will sit on his ass and play the entitlement card every chance he gets (not all will but enough to validate the argument), suck the welfare system, the educational system, the health system dry...all the while waving their old country's flag and decrying America and demanding their so-called "rights" as illegal aliens.

And I'm not generalizing, I've seen this happen in my own city...I see it every where I go.

If you're happy with it fine, but that sure as hell doesn't mean I have to be.

Technically, aren't most Americans illegal aliens?

m0j0mann
02-15-2009, 01:16
No but he will sit on his ass and play the entitlement card every chance he gets (not all will but enough to validate the argument), suck the welfare system, the educational system, the health system dry...all the while waving their old country's flag and decrying America and demanding their so-called "rights" as illegal aliens.


Illegal?

Now where did I say i favored ILLEGAL immigration?

The one's who AREN'T illegal, however, have just as much right to suck the welfare system as you do.

As for demanding their rights, if they aren't illegal, they have their rights.
And decrying America? I'm all for it! I thought I already made that clear...

PirateGlen
02-15-2009, 01:21
Technically, aren't most Americans illegal aliens?

Whose law? Your law or mine, joker?

Roland44
02-15-2009, 01:24
Illegal?

Now where did I say i favored ILLEGAL immigration?

The one's who AREN'T illegal, however, have just as much right to suck the welfare system as you do.

As for demanding their rights, if they aren't illegal, they have their rights.
And decrying America? I'm all for it! I thought I already made that clear...

Yes my comments since my initial post was somewhat of a comparison in regard to the massive amounts of illegal immigrants we have here in the states and the influx of (i'm assuming) illegal immigrants there in the UK.

If a person comes into America legally from ANY nationality I have zero problem with them. And they are welcome to all our country has to offer in the way of services and help.

But you can't (or shouldn't) let 100's of thousands just walk in and set up shop and demand aid and services for free. Which is what been going on here for far too long.

Sorry for any misunderstanding or if I wasn't clear before.

Rilman
02-15-2009, 01:29
The discussion that Mojomann and I were having was about him wanting more immigrants to further an anti-US sentiment in your government. Meaning, the most important thing to him is to counter US policy, this is basing your political views off of US policy and not internal UK policy. A Brit 60 years ago would be insulted by such a concept.

I expect 75% of us would be, the rest are short sighted morons or muslims.

Mojomann obviously sees being an anti-US country who must convert or die as a good thing, maybe he's a muslim, maybe a fucking retard, I'm undecided.

Villa
02-15-2009, 01:32
I expect 75% of us would be, the rest are short sighted morons or muslims.

Mojomann obviously sees being an anti-US country who must convert or die as a good thing, maybe he's a muslim, maybe a fucking retard, I'm undecided.
You speak as if countering US policies (a form of international cancer) are a bad thing.
Surely cancer has to be stopped?

m0j0mann
02-15-2009, 01:34
the influx of (i'm assuming) illegal immigrants there in the UK.

Uhhh...no.
We have this thing called "The channel", and a prosperous country called "France" on the other side, the population of which doesn't feel the need to illegally emigrate.

You should get a France and Channel of your own.



But you can't (or shouldn't) let 100's of thousands just walk in and set up shop and demand aid and services for free. Which is what been going on here for far too long.


Don't need to, the ones we've got already are allegedly reproducing 10 times as fast as everyone else. That's a lot of pro-palestinian babies being born.

Though, a 100,000 more couldn't hurt I suppose.

m0j0mann
02-15-2009, 01:35
who must convert or die

It's raining stereotypes!



Surely cancer has to be stopped?

Pwned lol...

Rilman
02-15-2009, 01:40
You speak as if countering US policies (a form of international cancer) are a bad thing.
Surely cancer has to be stopped?

I think we Brits should do our own thing but to become anti-US would be counter productive and rather pointless.

Mojo was saying the more muslims here the better so we become an anti-US country through votes, if that happened it could become a convert to islam or die situation which isn't ideal for any civilisation that doesn't want to live in the 1200's.

Veldern
02-15-2009, 01:40
The reason you, and the rest of the West for that matter, are targets of terrorist attacks are cause for decades the West treated the middle east as a gas station where the owner would beat his wife and rape his sister right in front of you, but so long as the gas pump worked and they submitted to our rule to an extent, we didn't care. Fast forward to the present day, and they're still in the same exact place culturally, only rich as fuck and realizing that we aren't masters over them.

Hm... didn't we go to war with that rapist nearly a decade ago? Basically what you're saying is that we didn't care before, which I will admit, we didn't(I also wasn't alive for that... so can I be blamed?), and now that we are treating them differently, we're to blame again. Sorry, but all I see is flawed logic here.

OH, and look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgF1kyCpJNo

If they're in the same situation... shouldn't there be more violence?

Veldern
02-15-2009, 01:44
You should get a France and Channel of your own.

We do, it's called Canada :P

m0j0mann
02-15-2009, 01:45
We do, it's called Canada :P

Then get one on the other side.


a convert to islam or die situation

Does the phobia taste good? You're clearly enjoying it...I assume enjoyment is the only reason you're continuing with your retardation.

Rilman
02-15-2009, 01:47
It's raining stereotypes!



Your a muslim aren't you?

Yeah sure the koran doesn't mention anything about it does it ?



Qur’an:8:39 “Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.”

Ishaq:578 “Crushing the heads of the infidels and splitting their skulls with sharp swords, we continually thrust and cut at the enemy. Blood gushed from their deep wounds as the battle wore them down. We conquered bearing the Prophet’s fluttering war banner.

Guess who the infidels are.

The funny thing is none of the people who suffer from terrorist attacks are truely linked to any of our governments 'doings'. The government promise us they'l change things if we vote them in, so we do, they then do what they like to who they like regardless of our protests for the next 4 years until somone else promises to change all that if we vote for him.

Its a shame these guys havn't figured out who to blow up really, you'd have thought they'd have figured it out after 800 years or so (crusades).

Veldern
02-15-2009, 01:52
Then get one on the other side.

Well we would, but we're currently spending all of our money trying to keep the us, the UK, Israel, and almost every other free country from being blown to bits.

m0j0mann
02-15-2009, 01:54
Your a muslim aren't you?


Agnostic, with a leaning towards the most holy church of the flying spaghetti monster.

Were you hoping to use stereotyping against me? That won't actually work in any debates that aren't among your BNP buddies, though I do realise this is forumfall....:p

Are those extracts intended to prove the existence of some "convert or die", situation?
Perhaps you'd care to explain why our Christian population aren't burning witches and stoning adulterers like the Bible tells them to?

Could it POSSIBLY be because they aren't all ultra-religious zealots?

By all means keep living in your bigoted delusions. And keep wasting your vote on the BNP, their voter base will never rise to any significant level.

m0j0mann
02-15-2009, 01:57
Well we would, but we're currently spending all of our money trying to keep the us, the UK, Israel, and almost every other free country from being blown to bits.

The UK is in little danger at the moment, and that danger will decrease even more as soon as one of the mainstream parties makes a drastic break from the foreign-policy norm.

Veldern
02-15-2009, 02:03
The UK is in little danger at the moment

Yes, and that is why they just spent so much money making a T.V. commercial... :rolleyes:

Rilman
02-15-2009, 02:04
Yeah your probably right, I probably do sound like some nazi fascist but thats really not the case, I just see changes in my country over the last 30 years or so and I really don't like whats happening.

I just desperately want things to change before its too late and neither of the main parties seem to want to change things so who do you vote for?.

I've read other parties policies I do think the BNP's are closest to what I want, I just hope theyr'e not the nazi fascists the press and other government parties try to portray them as. Going from past experience with tabloids and politicians I tend to believe that what they say is just more bullshit.

Lysandor
02-15-2009, 02:08
Are you trying to tell people atheism isn't a belief?

Do you actually believe it is?

Veldern
02-15-2009, 02:15
Do you actually believe it is?

I always thought it was believing in nothing...

Lysandor
02-15-2009, 02:16
I always thought it was the believing in nothing...

That would be the ignorant view of it.

Veldern
02-15-2009, 02:18
That would be the ignorant view of it.

Please, enlighten me. I always like to learn.

Lysandor
02-15-2009, 02:22
Please, enlighten me. I always like to learn.

Atheism is quite simply...the lack of beliefs in the context of faith.

Maybe people (well intelligent ones anyway) like to use semantics to confuse the issue:

'You believe God does not exist.'

Should be.

'You do not believe God exists.'

Two completely different statements. One is an athiest, the other...not.

Desperado[1G]
02-15-2009, 02:34
Atheism is quite simply...the lack of beliefs in the context of faith.

Maybe people (well intelligent ones anyway) like to use semantics to confuse the issue:

'You believe God does not exist.'

Should be.

'You do not believe God exists.'

Two completely different statements. One is an athiest, the other...not.

The first is an atheist statement. The second is an agnostic statement.

Your own definition of what an atheist is, is not correct. Atheism is the belief that there is no God. Agnosticism is the lack of belief in a God.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/agnosticism

Veldern
02-15-2009, 02:45
Ah, so it's all semantics. Thank you for clarifying.

Now for something else I cannot figure out... m0j0mann, if you're Agnostic, leaning Pastafarian, why do you want more people who's religion wants to make your own values a capital offense in your country? (Please, no one else but m0j0mann reply to this.)

m0j0mann
02-15-2009, 02:48
I just desperately want things to change before its too late and neither of the main parties seem to want to change things so who do you vote for?.


Well the difference between you and me I suppose is that you view the demographic changes in a negative light, and believe that some sort of "too late" situation is approaching.

What this "too late" situation is, I don't know. It's not really as retarded as the "convert or die" BS you mentioned a second ago is it?

You are correct about the parties all generally behaving the same way. They do tend to hug the center and shed themselves of their spines at all possible oppurtunities.

However, the ironic thing is ....the factor most likely to change that situation is the muslim vote.

ejnomad07
02-15-2009, 02:49
You would think Britain would learn from the last time they tried appeasement. :/

m0j0mann
02-15-2009, 02:51
Now for something else I cannot figure out... m0j0mann, if you're Agnostic, leaning Pastafarian, why do you want more people who's religion wants to make your own values a capital offense in your country? (Please, no one else but m0j0mann reply to this.)


I couldn't care less what their religion wants. What I care about is what they want, and how that will influence the government.

I'm not reactionary enough to believe that any large number of UK muslims really want us to "convert or die", or that the few who do would ever be able to influence our government in any major way.

With that retarded populist phobia out of the way, I'm free to look at the good (in my mind) things that a large muslim vote will bring.
Most notably, anti-americanism and pro-palestinianism, both of which to be overwhelmingly prevalent among muslims whether they are religious or not.

Desperado[1G]
02-15-2009, 02:57
Well the difference between you and me I suppose is that you view the demographic changes in a negative light, and believe that some sort of "too late" situation is approaching.

What this "too late" situation is, I don't know. It's not really as retarded as the "convert or die" BS you mentioned a second ago is it?

You are correct about the parties all generally behaving the same way. They do tend to hug the center and shed themselves of their spines at all possible oppurtunities.

However, the ironic thing is ....the factor most likely to change that situation is the muslim vote.

It's an issue of preservation. Rilman believes that there is much more that deserves preserving than you do. I agree with him.

It's the same battle being fought in the US. It's Conservatism vs Progressiveness.

Unfortunately, the modern views of progressives is more often than not, self-destructive. It's the idealistic mindset that the means should justify the ends. It's all well and good to want the utopian society that those of the left preach, but if the results of this mindset are not realistic, then it has no place in government.

In effect, the square peg will not fit in the round hole, no matter how hard you wish it did.

All IMO of course.

Lysandor
02-15-2009, 02:59
;2690347']The first is an atheist statement. The second is an agnostic statement.

Your own definition of what an atheist is, is not correct. Atheism is the belief that there is no God. Agnosticism is the lack of belief in a God.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/agnosticism

...

Agnosticism is the belief that there is something out there to believe in, but what or who it is either doesn't matter or is too far removed from present day religions to be known.

Atheism is the lack of belief and or conviction about anything related to a deity.

Atheism is NOT a belief, a belief system, nor a faith.

Your own links support my statements.

ejnomad07
02-15-2009, 03:01
...

Agnosticism is the belief that there is something out there to believe in, but what or who it is either doesn't matter or is too far removed from present day religions to be known.
Atheism is the lack of belief and or conviction about anything related to a deity.

Atheism is NOT a belief, a belief system, nor a faith.

Your own links support my statements.

No. That's a theist or a Deist.

Veldern
02-15-2009, 03:07
Please tell me why, exactly, you feel that pro-palastinianism is a good thing. (If you've said this before in this topic, I apologize and ask that you point me to the page number.)

Desperado[1G]
02-15-2009, 03:10
...

Agnosticism is the belief that there is something out there to believe in, but what or who it is either doesn't matter or is too far removed from present day religions to be known.

Atheism is the lack of belief and or conviction about anything related to a deity.

Atheism is NOT a belief, a belief system, nor a faith.

Your own links support my statements.

Where are you drawing this conclusion?

Agnosticism is neither belief nor disbelief.

http://www.answers.com/topic/agnosticism
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/agnostic
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/agnostic
http://www.yourdictionary.com/agnostic

Lysandor
02-15-2009, 03:10
No. That's a theist or a Deist.

God, I'm surrounded by people that insist on reminding me just how fucking MENSA I am.

Perhaps saying Agnosticism is a belief was inaccurate, however unlike Atheism it does not declare a null, which indirectly infers that agnostics are unwilling to say they do not believe god exists yet are more likely to say they believe god does not exist, because at the core, agnostics are still theists and retain some sort of belief...or more accurate a willingness to believe.

It all comes down to that set of statements from earlier. One does not negate the possible existance of a god(dess((s/es)), while the other precludes it.

Lysandor
02-15-2009, 03:12
;2690482']Where are you drawing this conclusion?

Agnosticism is neither belief nor disbelief.

http://www.answers.com/topic/agnosticism
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/agnostic
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/agnostic
http://www.yourdictionary.com/agnostic

Agnosticism is a total lack of conviction, 'belief' was probably the wrong word to use.

Desperado[1G]
02-15-2009, 03:12
God, I'm surrounded by people that insist on reminding me just how fucking MENSA I am.

Perhaps saying Agnosticism is a belief was inaccurate, however unlike Atheism it does not declare a null, which indirectly infers that agnostics are unwilling to say they do not believe god exists yet are more likely to say they believe god does not exist, because at the core, agnostics are still theists and retain some sort of belief.

It all comes down to that set of statements from earlier. One does not negate the possible existance of a god(dess((s/es)), while the other precludes it.

So your argument is that agnostics are really theists who don't want to declare themselves?

How do you know? Are they lying?

Lysandor
02-15-2009, 03:13
;2690498']So your argument is that agnostics are really theists who don't want to declare themselves?

How do you know? Are they lying?

You either do or do not believe something. Agnostics don't lack belief, they lack conviction about that belief.

Veldern
02-15-2009, 03:19
Um, Lysandor... I don't think you can call people stupid for pointing out your mistake...

ejnomad07
02-15-2009, 03:19
God, I'm surrounded by people that insist on reminding me just how fucking MENSA I am.

Perhaps saying Agnosticism is a belief was inaccurate, however unlike Atheism it does not declare a null, which indirectly infers that agnostics are unwilling to say they do not believe god exists yet are more likely to say they believe god does not exist, because at the core, agnostics are still theists and retain some sort of belief...or more accurate a willingness to believe.

It all comes down to that set of statements from earlier. One does not negate the possible existance of a god(dess((s/es)), while the other precludes it.

I want to agree, but you're still off. One side says they do exist while the other completely disagrees with this statement. Agnostics are not the maybe group. They laugh off the question like you were asking them if Dragons existed or not. They lean no more toward one side than the other.

Desperado[1G]
02-15-2009, 03:22
You either do or do not believe something. Agnostics don't lack belief, they lack conviction about that belief.

So you feel there is absolutely no middle ground. That agnostics are either Atheist or Theists that haven't committed to one or the other. I believe that's illogical, as it's entirely possible to favor one side of an argument while remaining undecided.

Sweden and Switzerland were neutral during WW2, yet they traded supplies with the Axis. Using your logic, these two countries were members of the Axis.

Lysandor
02-15-2009, 03:22
I want to agree, but you're still off. One side says they do exist while the other completely disagrees with this statement. Agnostics are not the maybe group. They laugh off the question like you were asking them if Dragons existed or not. They lean no more toward one side than the other.

Either they are the maybe group or they aren't...you just contradicted yourself.

Veldern
02-15-2009, 03:24
I know this sounds unrealistic, but what about someone who has NEVER thought about religion? Perhaps a baby? If someone has never heard of religion, how could they think that there wasn't a god, or even how could they believe that there is one? Could they be Agnostic?

m0j0mann
02-15-2009, 03:26
So you feel there is absolutely no middle ground. That agnostics are either Atheist or Theists that haven't committed to one or the other. I believe that's illogical, as it's entirely possible to favor one side of an argument while remaining undecided.

Correct. It's not illogical to have lots of different theories without commiting yourself entirely to any one of them.

Particularly concerning something as uncertain as the creation of the universe, i personally believe it's silly to only favor one theory.

Lysandor
02-15-2009, 03:26
;2690546']So you feel there is absolutely no middle ground. That agnostics are either Atheist or Theists that haven't committed to one or the other. I believe that's illogical, as it's entirely possible to be favorable to a facet of an argument while remaining undecided.

Sweden and Switzerland were neutral during WW2, yet they traded supplies with the Axis. Using your logic, these two countries were members of the Axis.

Your analogy is flawed.

Person A believes Sweden traded with the Axis.

Person B does not believe Sweden traded with the Axis.

Person C says believes it is possible Sweden traded with the Axis, but it either doesn't matter if they did or the consequences of it are irrelevant enough to not warrant conviction of either believing or not believing they did.

So, which one is the Agnostic, which the Athiest, and which the Faithful?

TrailMix
02-15-2009, 03:27
My problem with the whole racial business over here is this.

Black person is in the park.
White person walks in.

The black person starts calling the white guy english shit, white scum etc.
The white person retaliates, saying things to the black person that i cant say here which probably adds to the irony.

The black person reports the white person and it is seen as a criminal offence. If they insult us, it isnt treated as a criminal offence.

Now while that may not effect me so much, it shows that black people actually think of themselves as on a lower level that white people, because if they thought that they were truly on the same level, then any racist comments towards anyone would be either a criminal offence, or mean nothing at all.

Desperado[1G]
02-15-2009, 03:27
I know this sounds unrealistic, but what about someone who has NEVER thought about religion? Perhaps a baby? If someone has never heard of religion, how could they think that there wasn't a god, or even how could they believe that there is one? Could they be Agnostic?


One either:

1.) Believes that something is or does. (Theist)
2.) Believes that something is not or does not. (Atheist)
3.) Has no belief about. (Agnostic)
4.) Is not aware of. (You are not aware of the questioning of God's existence or not, or not even aware of the concept of a God.)

It's a 4th state of awareness that I eluded to earlier. I really don't know what to call it. It's not agnosticism, because to be agnostic you must be in a sufficient state of awareness to question the existence of a God in the first place.

Lysandor
02-15-2009, 03:27
Correct. It's not illogical to have lots of different theories without commiting yourself entirely to any one of them.

Creationism isn't relevant to whether a deity exists or not, due to the fact that a deity is not required for Creationism to be true.

m0j0mann
02-15-2009, 03:28
Please tell me why, exactly, you feel that pro-palastinianism is a good thing.

I could tell you, but that would trigger a retarded off-topic israeli-palestinian pissing contest.
If you like i'll PM you a lengthier explanation, but I think we can all agree that the US and it's allies has been far, far too pro-Israel over the course of the past few decades.


;2690431']It's an issue of preservation.

Preservation of what exactly?

ejnomad07
02-15-2009, 03:30
Either they are the maybe group or they aren't...you just contradicted yourself.

Read again Lysandor please. I said they were not the maybe group. Learning no more toward one side than the other is not maybe. Maybe is admiting it's possible and learning towards a side. They suffer complete apathy to the question of if gods exist or not.

m0j0mann
02-15-2009, 03:30
Creationism isn't relevant to whether a deity exists or not, due to the fact that a deity is not required for Creationism to be true.

uh, k, whatev? I don't see how that conflicts with my point.

sorros
02-15-2009, 03:33
I could tell you, but that would trigger a retarded off-topic israeli-palestinian pissing contest.



Oooh, oooh, I like those. Israel shouldn't carpet bomb Palestine because some retard shoots an RPG and doesn't even kill anyone.

Muslims aren't bad, the Koran isn't either. Just the whack-jobs. They're in all religions though. Only thing I would be pissed about, if I was in the UK, is if religion was taking control of my gov't itself. Ignoring the fact Gordon Brown is a moron anyway.

Veldern
02-15-2009, 03:34
Word History: An agnostic does not deny the existence of God and heaven but holds that one cannot know for certain whether or not they exist.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/agnostic

1: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable ; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/agnostic




They believe that it is impossible to know if there is a god or not.

Desperado[1G]
02-15-2009, 03:34
Your analogy is flawed.

Person A believes Sweden traded with the Axis.

Person B does not believe Sweden traded with the Axis.

Person C says believes it is possible Sweden traded with the Axis, but it either doesn't matter if they did or the consequences of it are irrelevant enough to not warrant conviction of either believing or not believing they did.

So, which one is the Agnostic, which the Athiest, and which the Faithful?

You forget a large part of the discussion. You must add the caveat that neither person A nor person B could prove nor disprove that Sweden did or did not trade with the Axis.

Person C is merely on the fence, because without sufficient proof, he is unsure of who to believe. Faith is belief in the absence of proof, regardless of which direction that belief is directed.

Lysandor
02-15-2009, 03:34
;2690564']It's a 4th state of awareness that I eluded to earlier. I really don't know what to call it. It's not agnosticism, because to be agnostic you must be in a sufficient state of awareness to question the existence of a God in the first place.

Well...total ignorance of the choice certainly does not eliminate that choice from existence, but I would surmise that being ignorant of the choice would make its existence irrelevant and the consequences or lack thereof of making a choice an intangible, but persistent potentiality that could be made further down the time line.

But then again...does an infant suffer the consequence of the choice without ever being able to make the decision if it dies before it encounters anything related to it?

Veldern
02-15-2009, 03:40
I could tell you, but that would trigger a retarded off-topic israeli-palestinian pissing contest.
If you like i'll PM you a lengthier explanation, but I think we can all agree that the US and it's allies has been far, far too pro-Israel over the course of the past few decades.

I will admit that we have been very pro-Israel, but we have also been very pro-UK, is that a bad thing? (And yes, I would like a pm. I rather enjoy political pissing contests :P)

Lysandor
02-15-2009, 03:40
Read again Lysandor please. I said they were not the maybe group. Learning no more toward one side than the other is not maybe. Maybe is admiting it's possible and learning towards a side. They suffer complete apathy to the question of if gods exist or not.

You either do or do not believe. It is not something that has a gray area. Maybe you believe, but are open to being incorrect. Or maybe you do not believe and are open to being incorrect.

There still can't be a maybe.


uh, k, whatev? I don't see how that conflicts with my point.

I think I replied to the wrong post with that, my apologies.


;2690605']You forget a large part of the discussion. You must add the caveat that neither person A nor person B could prove nor disprove that Sweden did or did not trade with the Axis.

Person C is merely on the fence, because without sufficient proof, he is unsure of who to believe. Faith is belief in the absence of proof, regardless of which direction that belief is directed.

Proof is not required for belief. There are people who believe the Holocaust did not happen...there are also people who do not believe the Holocaust happened.

Two seperate things, even though it is easy to take the same conviction from them.

m0j0mann
02-15-2009, 03:47
I will admit that we have been very pro-Israel, but we have also been very pro-UK, is that a bad thing? (And yes, I would like a pm. I rather enjoy political pissing contests :P)

I pmed you. If the UK carpet-bombed ireland and bulldozed all their houses, then yes, it would be a bad thing.



They believe that it is impossible to know if there is a god or not.

Not neccessarily (well, at least I don't). That would be irrational. Science could find out what came before the Big Bang, and likewise, some "being" (possibly resembling an octopus made out of spaghetti) could reveal themself.

Could and probably and possibly are the things Agnostics (or at least I) really believe in.

Desperado[1G]
02-15-2009, 03:49
Preservation of what exactly?

Preservation of ideals and values.

If your country was veering away from values that you deemed good and decent, would you not feel the urge to voice your objection?

I'm not English, but I will try to use an acceptable example;

Say I am an Englishman. I am proud of my forefathers accomplishments, and I am proud to live in a nation of relative freedom.

(Does England have a 4th of July like celebration?) Well, on the day of a greatly celebrated national holiday, a minority group of Muslim immigrants protest, stating that the English oppressed a Muslim nation at some period in the past.

Speaking for myself, I would vehemently support the English holiday. This is England, after all, and we are proud to be English. I am proud that my country is great enough, that I am free to go and do as I please, knowing full well that there are many nations that do not share that greatness.

These Muslim immigrants came here knowing full well who we are, and what we stand for. We're not celebrating the oppression of these people, we're merely proclaiming our pride and thanks.

Who do you support? Whose views take precedence?

ejnomad07
02-15-2009, 03:49
You either do or do not believe. It is not something that has a gray area. Maybe you believe, but are open to being incorrect. Or maybe you do not believe and are open to being incorrect.

There still can't be a maybe.

The world is black and white? You have got to be kidding me...

m0j0mann
02-15-2009, 03:54
Preservation of ideals and values.

Not threatened. People can celebrate what they want, and that won't change, regardless of what some fringe group wants.

Those fringe groups, btw, will probably lose all their support (if they ever had any) once one of our mainstream political parties picks up the Palestinian issue. Any popularity that the wackos have will instantly be transferred to that party.

There's the solution for those fringe groups that seem to trouble you so much. Palestine.

m0j0mann
02-15-2009, 03:56
If you're having trouble comprehending, consider this.

If you asked any muslim in Britain what was more important, protesting St George's day, or Palestine, what do you think their answer would be?

Even the small amount of idiots who actually protest St Georges day would still say Palestine.

m0j0mann
02-15-2009, 04:02
Consider - if Obama was able to energize the apathetic USA with vague promises of "change" and "hope", just imagine how energized the already-politicized muslim voters would be with promises of SPECIFIC change and SPECIFIC hope.

Lysandor
02-15-2009, 04:02
The world is black and white? You have got to be kidding me...

Who is talking about the world?

Not everything is one big pansy gray area, much as everyone would love it to be.

waofy
02-15-2009, 04:03
How on Earth did this turn into a debate about agnosticism? Anyway, I'll join in :D


You either do or do not believe. It is not something that has a gray area. Maybe you believe, but are open to being incorrect. Or maybe you do not believe and are open to being incorrect.

As far as I'm aware there's many different forms of agnosticism. Your description covers some of them but definitely not the strong agnostics. Their argument is that the question of existence of any trancendental being cannot be answered due to the definition of "transcendent". If you actively refuse to answer the question using this argument then you don't hold either belief.

Lysandor
02-15-2009, 04:03
How on Earth did this turn into a debate about agnosticism? Anyway, I'll join in :D



As far as I'm aware there's many different forms of agnosticism. Your description covers some of them but definitely not the strong agnostics. Their argument is that the question of existence of any trancendental being cannot be answered due to the definition of "transcendent". If you actively refuse to answer the question using this argument then you don't hold either belief.

You imply there are two beliefs, when there aren't.

Desperado[1G]
02-15-2009, 04:04
You either do or do not believe. It is not something that has a gray area. Maybe you believe, but are open to being incorrect. Or maybe you do not believe and are open to being incorrect.

There still can't be a maybe.

What is your reasoning behind your claim that there cannot be a gray area? It must be more than "lack of conviction", because that does not accurately describe a pattern of thought.

Prove to me that it is not possible for a man to neither believe nor disbelieve.


Proof is not required for belief. There are people who believe the Holocaust did not happen...there are also people who do not believe the Holocaust happened.

Two seperate things, even though it is easy to take the same conviction from them.

That's what I said. Faith is belief in the absence of proof. If the subject matter cannot be proven nor disproven, then how can one man claim anothers' belief as invalid?

Again, you fall into the same hole. The holocaust can be proven to a reliable degree, and I have not heard of any proof that would lead me to believe it did not happen.

ejnomad07
02-15-2009, 04:04
Who is talking about the world?

Not everything is one big pansy gray area, much as everyone would love it to be.

Things based without facts are not a black or white debate

Veldern
02-15-2009, 04:06
Not neccessarily (well, at least I don't). That would be irrational. Science could find out what came before the Big Bang, and likewise, some "being" (possibly resembling an octopus made out of spaghetti) could reveal themself.

Could and probably and possibly are the things Agnostics (or at least I) really believe in.

I... guess I was paraphrasing. Let me rephrase what I said, by reposting the DICTIONARY definition.

a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable

m0j0mann
02-15-2009, 04:11
I... guess I was paraphrasing. Let me rephrase what I said, by reposting the DICTIONARY definition.

a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable

That's better. "Probably" is the key word.

Lysandor
02-15-2009, 04:13
;2690752']What is your reasoning behind your claim that there cannot be a gray area? It must be more than "lack of conviction", because that does not accurately describe a pattern of thought.

Prove to me that it is not possible for a man to neither believe nor disbelieve.

Belief and disbelief are two of two possible states. There is not a third state.


That's what I said. Faith is belief in the absence of proof. If the subject matter cannot be proven nor disproven, then how can one man claim anothers' belief as invalid?

Individuals aside, nobody is claiming any belief is invalid, only that they lack those beliefs.


Again, you fall into the same hole. The holocaust can be proven to a reliable degree, and I have not heard of any proof that would lead me to believe it did not happen.

You missed my point which is that belief, fact, truth, and faith are not all necessary components of each other.


Things based without facts are not a black or white debate

How is that?

Desperado[1G]
02-15-2009, 04:16
Not threatened.

That's you're opinion. The very existence of opposing political parties refutes this claim.


People can celebrate what they want, and that won't change, regardless of what some fringe group wants.

Wasn't the St George's day parade banned? Are there any moderate Englishman that approve of the banning of the St George's day parade? Does the majority of England approve of the banning of the St George's day parade?


Those fringe groups, btw, will probably lose all their support (if they ever had any) once one of our mainstream political parties picks up the Palestinian issue. Any popularity that the wackos have will instantly be transferred to that party.

There's the solution for those fringe groups that seem to trouble you so much. Palestine.

Britain's support of Palestine pushing the Jews into the sea would solve everything? How?

Setting that aside, how would Britain's support of Palestine resolve the often violent cultural differences between the increasing Muslim population and native Britons? Who would give way? From your previous posts, it would seem you feel Britains should be the ones to assimilate to it's immigrants, which I find absurd.

Veldern
02-15-2009, 04:17
That's better. "Probably" is the key word.

Ah yes, because it's probably unknowable. The dictionary def says that it may not be knowable if there is a god, but it also says that it IS UNKNOWN in their mind.

dakara
02-15-2009, 04:18
Is Britain a continent or country? I confuse Britain and Europe

Veldern
02-15-2009, 04:20
As far as I know, the UK doesn't consider it's self a part of Europe.


*EDIT* Sorry about this, I had heard it years ago from a pen pal I had in elementary school and never bothered to read up on it.

waofy
02-15-2009, 04:25
As far as I know, the UK doesn't consider it's self a part of Europe.

Well it's separate from "continental" Europe. People still consider it a part of Europe though (okay, everyone except UKIP supporters).

Desperado[1G]
02-15-2009, 04:31
Belief and disbelief are two of two possible states. There is not a third state.

Prove it.



You missed my point which is that belief, fact, truth, and faith are not all necessary components of each other.

Ah, I thought your analogy was meant to disprove my thoughts.

Marrik
02-15-2009, 05:23
you know, even though i dont like a lot of what he stood for, and even though it was really HIM who was responsible for WW2, i cant help but think that Winston Churchill had the right idea with his "Keep England White" campaign.


not because im racist like he was, but because if you had kept the whole xenophobic, anti-immigrant attitude, your country wouldnt be fucked like it is now.








and Veldern, its stuff like that that perpetuates the stereotype of dumbass Americans.

ace livion
02-15-2009, 05:33
hmm.... "targeted at ‘15-25-year-old males who are less than well-educated and worldly wise"
:D if they reed that line they migth get more teorist's...
and if they realy are less "than well-educated and worldly wise" it migth be a bad idea to show them where UK is...

PirateGlen
02-15-2009, 05:39
Belief and disbelief are two of two possible states. There is not a third state.


MENSA my ass. You're an idiot.

The issue here is that atheism has two meanings which could be classified as atheism and agnostic atheism. The usage of and definition of atheism does not only mean those that lack belief. The word atheist also include those that have a claim to knowledge that there IS NO deities, just as theists have a claim that there IS deities. Agnostics range from making the claim that it is unknown to as far as saying it is unknowable.

To make the claim that there is no deities you have just as much support that there are deities: none.

Silverhandorder
02-15-2009, 06:39
World is so fucked. This is not going to last long. Something has to give. I think once American economy falls crazy protectionism will right everything. Groups who are culturally predominant will take over the regions where they are based.

Lethn
02-15-2009, 06:40
World is so fucked. This is not going to last long. Something has to give. I think once American economy falls crazy protectionism will right everything. Groups who are culturally predominant will take over the regions where they are based.

Wahoo! *cocks shotgun in preperation for Fallout*

Silverhandorder
02-15-2009, 06:43
I doubt we will be reduced to a nuclear war.

Lethn
02-15-2009, 06:45
I doubt we will be reduced to a nuclear war.

:( I wanted to killz government scum!

Silverhandorder
02-15-2009, 06:50
:( I wanted to killz government scum!

With a spork?

Lethn
02-15-2009, 06:51
With a spork?

*poke poke poke*

Lysandor
02-15-2009, 07:09
MENSA my ass. You're an idiot.

Ok.


The issue here is that atheism has two meanings which could be classified as atheism and agnostic atheism.

Well technically everyone is agnostic, theist or atheist.


The usage of and definition of atheism does not only mean those that lack belief. The word atheist also include those that have a claim to knowledge that there IS NO deities, just as theists have a claim that there IS deities.

Not so, just because someone who is an atheist also claims there is no 'god', that does not mean atheism means believing there is no god. Atheism means you don't believe there is a deity. Period.


Agnostics range from making the claim that it is unknown to as far as saying it is unknowable.

Nobody can say they are agnostic and be a liar, but on the same note, nobody can say they aren't agnostic and not be a liar.


To make the claim that there is no deities you have just as much support that there are deities: none.

Atheism is not a 'claim' of a negative existence, it is the lack of 'claiming' a positive existence.

Huge mother frackin difference.

Gloomrender
02-15-2009, 07:40
you know, even though i dont like a lot of what he stood for, and even though it was really HIM who was responsible for WW2, i cant help but think that Winston Churchill had the right idea with his "Keep England White" campaign.


not because im racist like he was, but because if you had kept the whole xenophobic, anti-immigrant attitude, your country wouldnt be fucked like it is now.

I think now and in the future countries will have to adopt legislation against muslim immigration.

PirateGlen
02-15-2009, 07:44
Not so, just because someone who is an atheist also claims there is no 'god', that does not mean atheism means believing there is no god. Atheism means you don't believe there is a deity. Period.
Maybe that's your definition. But that's not the definition.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheism
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheism
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/atheist

Here's three dictionary references with two distinct definitions, one where there is a lack of belief in gods, and one where there is a claim that there are no gods. You're simply wrong.


Nobody can say they are agnostic and be a liar, but on the same note, nobody can say they aren't agnostic and not be a liar.
Anyone who has any absolute claim to truth about the existence or non-existence of deities is not agnostic. Again, you're proving you don't know the scope and limits of the words in use.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/agnosticism



Atheism is not a 'claim' of a negative existence, it is the lack of 'claiming' a positive existence.

Huge mother frackin difference.
Yeah, but as it would stand atheism can be both. If you ever bothered to look up the word you'd know that. There's a distinct difference, but atheism includes both meanings, you just don't know that because you clearly don't understand the word.

Stomrane
02-15-2009, 09:05
...

Agnosticism is the belief that there is something out there to believe in, but what or who it is either doesn't matter or is too far removed from present day religions to be known.

Atheism is the lack of belief and or conviction about anything related to a deity.

Atheism is NOT a belief, a belief system, nor a faith.

Your own links support my statements.

QFT, thankyou :) there is no belief in atheism.

Jezrith
02-15-2009, 09:12
Do you actually believe it is?

Considering it is in fact a belief, yes I do.

saltwaterteffy
02-15-2009, 09:13
okay so lets say that I believe in a "higher power"(not an old man with a beard or a four armed elephant)

I believe that there is something that is beyond our comprehension and no one has the right idea. I don't want to know what it is or what it pertains to, worship, pay tribute to, or discover it. I just want to enjoy life while I still exist.

Am I an atheist or an agnostic?

Jezrith
02-15-2009, 09:15
okay so lets say that I believe in a "higher power"(not an old man with a beard or a four armed elephant)

I believe that there is something that is beyond our comprehension and no one has the right idea. I don't want to know what it is or what it pertains to, worship, pay tribute to, or discover it. I just want to enjoy life while I still exist.

Am I an atheist or an agnostic?

Niether, that would make you a deist more than anything else...

saltwaterteffy
02-15-2009, 09:25
Niether, that would make you a deist more than anything else...

you know ive always liked the idea of Deism...but then again that involves a deity :( and i don't think that there is some sort of supreme being out there...

Franky
02-15-2009, 10:30
In my religions class, we classified everything into 4 groups:
Theism-Beleif in a God, gods or some kind of sacredness.
Atheism-Denies the existence of a God or gods.
Agnosticism-Simply argues that the existence of a God or gods cannot be proven.
Nontheism-Simply to take no position.

I think some have incorrectly labeled themselves as atheists and agnostics.

varoksa
02-15-2009, 10:57
i believe in the flying spaghetti monster

m0j0mann
02-15-2009, 18:21
;2690799']
Wasn't the St George's day parade banned? Are there any moderate Englishman that approve of the banning of the St George's day parade? Does the majority of England approve of the banning of the St George's day parade?


When there's no support behind it, such bans won't last



Britain's support of Palestine pushing the Jews into the sea would solve everything? How?


Stupid question deserves a stupid answer. Or none.



Setting that aside, how would Britain's support of Palestine resolve the often violent cultural differences between the increasing Muslim population and native Britons? Who would give way? From your previous posts, it would seem you feel Britains should be the ones to assimilate to it's immigrants, which I find absurd.

The immigrants are already assimilated. There are no "violent cultural differences". Clearly, you haven't met many british muslims.
There a few crazies, but as I said, a pro-palestinian political party will solve that. There are few muslims, however crazy, who would take a ban of St George's day over Palestine.

88Chaz88
02-15-2009, 18:26
;2684620']The once proud country has been reduced to running ads on Pakistani television, begging Muslim bullies to leave it alone on the grounds that Britain is becoming Islamized. The taxpayer is putting up £400,000 to finance the campaign.

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/Dont-attack-us-please-UK-ads-to-say-on-Pak-TV/421654/

Political correctness advances Islam more effectively than any suicide bomber could ever hope to.

It's funny how we, the british public, don't get to know about these ads unless we search the net.

ZeroFX
02-15-2009, 18:31
i believe in the flying spaghetti monster
May his noodly appendages find the time to touch us all.

Apocka
02-15-2009, 19:27
I sometimes feel ashamed of being British since our country has been pussified by political correctness more than any other country.

Yeah but I really fucking hate political correctness.

EDIT: What I also hate is when I can't do or say something around certain people because of their religion, we're not all religious and if you don't like that get the fuck out of our country.

I'm with him. Shameful. In my very own town a non-religious white man was fined for interupting a muslim praying in the main shopping street, whilst he was blocking access to several shops.

I would have told the muslim where to go. I ain't a racist, and I have no religious beliefs at all, but they have their own countries.

Anyone speaking out agaisnt me - Go to Iraq/Iran or surrounding countries and practice christianism (that even a word?!) in public, while blocking access to something. You'll wind up dead.

HauptmannHP
02-15-2009, 20:09
Anyone speaking out agaisnt me - Go to Iraq/Iran or surrounding countries and practice christianism (that even a word?!) in public, while blocking access to something. You'll wind up dead.

I think Christianity is the term you are looking for.

heroshade
02-15-2009, 21:17
I like Brits, I really do, but I wish they would take there fucking country back like we Americans say we will do when the Mexicanos take over.

Fenrir-hai
02-16-2009, 01:51
I beleive that eventually, with so much religous conflict, that non-religous governments will eventually turn against religion, blaming many problems on them. Doesn't look too bright to me. In the end, the majority of religous people only want humanity to be better off, but then groups in these religions go the the extreme, giving decent religous folk a bad name and sterotype.

Veldern
02-16-2009, 01:54
and Veldern, its stuff like that that perpetuates the stereotype of dumbass Americans.

Please elaborate... I've said a LOT in this thread and am not sure what specific thing you're talking about :P