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Jezrith
02-17-2009, 16:56
I still have to disagree with preventing students from being armed. 1 armed student could have stopped th VT incident, as well as every other school shooting. Gun laws only disarm lawful citizens.

This is what happens when students on a campus have firearms and someone snaps:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_School_of_Law_shooting

Death Toll: 03

This is what happens when students on a campus do not have firearms and someone snaps:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT_shooting

Death Toll: 32

Any questions?

Mo0rbid
02-17-2009, 17:00
This is what happens when students on a campus have firearms and someone snaps:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_School_of_Law_shooting

Death Toll: 03

This is what happens when students on a campus do not have firearms and someone snaps:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT_shooting

Death Toll: 32

Any questions?

my question is: didn't you know you can tamper with wiki?


now it says:

Deaths 184
Injured 14

Jezrith
02-17-2009, 17:02
my question is: didn't you know you can tamper with wiki?

Yes. It's also extremely easy to tell when the information is not correct (sources don't work, incorrect links etc, or in this case the article contradicts it's self )

Now, any other questions, questions that aren't stupid?

Mo0rbid
02-17-2009, 17:05
Yes. It's also extremely easy to tell when the information is not correct

yea.... so when for example you're researching a subject you have no fucking idea about you can extremey easy tell if it's fake or not? fucking GJ man I wanna have your skills





Now, any other questions, questions that aren't stupid?

sorry, I only have stupid questions in stock. Come back tommorow

Reigngod
02-17-2009, 17:06
Okay, you are all right and i am wrong,
everyone should be armed.

So, lets just say, everyone has a gun, what happens next?
dont you really think the criminals would say, "oh, well, the woman could have a gun, i dont rob her."?

Or do you think that the criminal gets some friends to protect each other.


And once again, i never said, that noone should have a gun, i just said, that this vid is a propaganda vid, that the shown situations are very unlikly to happen.
The vid just showed the 'good' side, no word about any risks.
Dont tell me, that if you get your concealed weapon carry permits, noone tells you anything about the risks.

And once again, please atleast try to read, i was always reffering to the situations in this vid.

Both weapons are in a good shape, both people dont hesitate to pull the trigger, both have been in gun fights before, both paying attention.

As a robber, i would have taken the purse and i wouldnt let the woman look for some cash and her wallet, well, it might have happend that way, but how are the chances?

Oh, and the USA is not the only huge country in the world, and not in every state you need to carry a gun to protect yourself.


Oh, and what about the study that said, that the police is out gunned by criminals?
they want to give the police bigger weapons, so they can compete with the gangs AKs.
Following your arguments, the women need bigger purses to 'conceal' their bazookas in there.
You said, that criminals can get any weapon they want, so whats stopping them to get automatic weapons, weapons like the MP5, and whats stopping the criminals to wear bullet proof vests?

What about the guy who is in a gang and got shot buy a woman, do you really think they say, "yeah, he was a bad guy, good the woman killed him." or do you think that they will call for revenge and try to find that woman?



How about educate everyone, give everyone the same chances, if they dont have to rob a store, rob a woman, then the people in shops and these women dont need to protect themself.

You further wrote or a link you provided said, that most of the criminals dont hesitate to shoot, because they have seen lots of violence when they were kids.
Just imagine you would end this circle here,if you were able to get the kids out of this enviroment.


And to make it clear, there will always be these kind of people who just want to kill, but the numbers of these are so small, that you dont need to really worry about them.

There will always be people that feel they "have to" rob a store or attack an elderly person. Being able to carry a weapon in defense of yourself is for that specific incident. Whether or not someone comes for you again doesnt mean anything, you may have already been dead from the first attack.

The circle will never end. We have people coming from less fortunate countries that help this circle...on top of all those already with us.

As far as criminals getting bigger automatic weapons....that wont make a difference.. It takes the same amount of time to pull the trigger and the same amount of time to pull it out. If your handgun can stop an attacker with a handgun, your handgun can stop an attacker with an M-4.

Bigger gun doesnt mean bigger HP's in RL.

Jezrith
02-17-2009, 17:09
yea.... so when for example you're researching a subject you have no fucking idea about you can extremey easy tell if it's fake or not? fucking GJ man I wanna have your skills


It's not hard to verify the source information (those little footnotes with links at the bottom), and if you can't tell when an article contradicts itself, then I guess you just need to brush up on your reading comprehension skills.

Mo0rbid
02-17-2009, 17:13
It's not hard to verify the source information (those little footnotes with links at the bottom), and if you can't tell when an article contradicts itself, then I guess you just need to brush up on your reading comprehension skills.

my argument still stands since I'm quite sure there's not a lot of people who research every source for confirmation of validity


127.0.0.1

Hey how did you get my IP? Hacker!

Reigngod
02-17-2009, 17:15
my argument still stands since I'm quite sure there's not a lot of people who research every source for confirmation of validity



Hey how did you get my IP? Hacker!

If its written on the internet, you know it to be true! Do not fight it!

Jezrith
02-17-2009, 17:18
my argument still stands since I'm quite sure there's not a lot of people who research every source for confirmation of validity


Just because people don't verify the sources, it somehow magically makes it hard to verify the sources? How the fuck does that work?



Hey how did you get my IP? Hacker!

I have my ways.

Mo0rbid
02-17-2009, 17:20
Just because people don't verify the sources, it somehow magically makes it hard to verify the sources? How the fuck does that work?


you can make your own sources, and list them

Uska d'Orien
02-17-2009, 17:20
People should not carry guns, let the SS... I mean police protect you.

dam ss can have my guns when they pry them from my cold dead hands.

Reigngod
02-17-2009, 17:22
dam ss can have my guns when they pry them from my cold dead hands.

They might use ice to expedite the cooling process.

Jezrith
02-17-2009, 17:24
you can make your own sources, and list them

And I can look up those sources that were made up and find out they're bullshit when they don't exist. I'm failing to see what you think is so hard about doing this...

Gruum
02-17-2009, 19:27
And I can look up those sources that were made up and find out they're bullshit when they don't exist. I'm failing to see what you think is so hard about doing this...

You are right about this.
People can fake information, they can make fake websites or give false information in wiki, you need to know who to make sure that the information is correct, a good way to do this is to follow the links they provide..

Mo0rbid
02-17-2009, 19:37
And I can look up those sources that were made up and find out they're bullshit when they don't exist. I'm failing to see what you think is so hard about doing this...

You're still acting like EVERYTHING written on the internet is fucking true, you are clearly ignorant. the only thing I tried to get into your head is that it's very easy to fake shit without people ever knowing or figuring it out long after.

gary0044187
02-17-2009, 19:46
these arguements are all regurgitated. they keep getting repeated over and over again. No matter how many people come in with different thoughts about the subject they get battered down by the same misplaced logic. When you realise that you are repeating yourself you need to come up with a better way to explain your pov or just realise that you are at an impass.

For the dude that wants kids running around in the schools with guns, you are not only wrong, you are an idiot. If you are afraid of gunmen in your schools get a levy passed in your district that pays for armed police officers in the schools and metal detecters at the doors. Last thing the world needs is more hormonal teenagers with guns. This is common sense, not propaganda to disarm the populace so big brother can keep you down.


edit- Also, focus groups and lobbiests are great at gathering information in such a way that it paints the picture they want painted. Not only am I skeptical of all the information pulled from the internet, but I am skeptical of the so called statistics that are being thrown around in this thread too. Including the statistics I pulled from other sources.

Mo0rbid
02-17-2009, 19:47
if you fucking ban guns there will be very fucking few guns in circulation and not every fucking thief will have access to them


As it is now in USA, you're just pissing fuel into a fucking fire

Quagmire
02-17-2009, 19:54
dam ss can have my guns when they pry them from my cold dead hands.

May Charlton Heston Rest in Peace :D

Vercis
02-17-2009, 19:55
People should not carry guns, let the SS... I mean police protect you.

Agree, if you live in Europe, however US is teh chaos sh1t!

Sturmrabe
02-17-2009, 19:55
if you fucking ban guns there will be very fucking few guns in circulation and not every fucking thief will have access to them


As it is now in USA, you're just pissing fuel into a fucking fire
I'm sorry, did you confuse America with ambiguously gay England?

Reigngod
02-17-2009, 19:57
if you fucking ban guns there will be very fucking few guns in circulation and not every fucking thief will have access to them


As it is now in USA, you're just pissing fuel into a fucking fire

umm..not true...then people who want a gun will just go black market to get them....making former law-abiding citizens into criminals for breaking the gun laws. Of course the real criminals who had guns to begin with will continue to get them from sources that arent legal...but what do they care because they arent exactly living the law as it is. Your thought of completely taking guns out of circulation is absolutely and completely retarded. Did you write that post while under the influence of some cults kool-aid? Think before you post.

Vercis
02-17-2009, 19:58
I'm sorry, did you confuse America with ambiguously gay England?

Dude at least europe is safer...
People in USA listen too much to 2pac and other sh1tty rappers and pretend to be "yo modafaka gangsta" wake up plz!

Reigngod
02-17-2009, 19:58
Dude at least europe is safer...
People in USA listen too much to 2pac and other sh1tty rappers and pretend to be "yo modafaka gangsta" wake up plz!

yeah, well, you have a stupid accent.

Vercis
02-17-2009, 19:59
yeah, well, you have a stupid accent.

yea, guess why?

Reigngod
02-17-2009, 19:59
yea, guess why?

Because your parents had stupid accents?

Quagmire
02-17-2009, 20:00
Dude at least europe is safer...
People in USA listen too much to 2pac and other sh1tty rappers and pretend to be "yo modafaka gangsta" wake up plz!

That's the parents fault for not teaching those kids some morals, the parents should be shot for raising their kid that way, and the child should be shot for being immoral.

I listen to some of that thar, Rap/Hip-Hop crap but I'm not a god damn gansta wannabe, if anything I listen to this guys hip-hop song and it describes me perfect: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PsnxDQvQpw

Vercis
02-17-2009, 20:02
Because your parents had stupid accents?

...
Nice, what a clever boy you are!
btw dude is this video actually true? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE&feature=channel_page

Vercis
02-17-2009, 20:04
That's the parents fault for not teaching those kids some morals, the parents should be shot for raising their kid that way, and the child should be shot for being immoral.

I listen to some of that thar, Rap/Hip-Hop crap but I'm not a god damn gansta wannabe, if anything I listen to this guys hip-hop song and it describes me perfect: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PsnxDQvQpw

I see your point, but maybe you would like to try something... less retarded??
Like this for example? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28GaKoCuobU

Reigngod
02-17-2009, 20:10
...
Nice, what a clever boy you are!
btw dude is this video actually true? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE&feature=channel_page

That video describes entire states within the US..and the entire populations of those states.

The guy asking questions has a stupid accent too.

Quagmire
02-17-2009, 20:11
I see your point, but maybe you would like to try something... less retarded??
Like this for example? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28GaKoCuobU

Naah i like Jon Lajoie's stuff. Look at some of his other videos, they are downright hilarious. 2Girls1Cup song, where sings a love song based around that nasty video.

High as Fuck is great! You're in the bathroom mirror talking to yourself and your dogs lookin' at you like you need help...Have you ever been high as fuuuuck! :lmao:

Mo0rbid
02-17-2009, 20:24
Your thought of completely taking guns out of circulation is absolutely and completely retarded. .

why so? that's how it is in Sweden, so fuck you


only hardcore criminals can get guns and in sweden we rarely hear of people being shot except for police shootings

Quagmire
02-17-2009, 20:28
why so? that's how it is in Sweden, so fuck you

You can easily take all the guns out of circulation, that's easy. The problem is there are a very large quantity of guns that aren't in official circulation.

I.E. black market gangsta guns and the like. Serial numbers filed off and if they were really smart they'd take some copper scrub and scrub it up and down the barrel for a bit and change the markings left on the bullet when it leaves the chamber.

That's the issue with getting rid of the guns, because, 1. there's plenty of guns out there that aren't registered and a lot of people will hold onto them puppies. 2. there's still a whole hell of a lot of guns that aren't in circulation at all. Think of then end of the Cold War and all the Ak's that wound up in Africa. :D

Rourke
02-17-2009, 20:50
why so? that's how it is in Sweden, so fuck you


only hardcore criminals can get guns and in sweden we rarely hear of people being shot except for police shootings

What a sad country. To just let your Government tell you what you can and cannot do is just lame. Can hunters at least own a gun? Or are there no hunters in Sweden?


Dude at least europe is safer...
People in USA listen too much to 2pac and other sh1tty rappers and pretend to be "yo modafaka gangsta" wake up plz!

Dude, that's a HUGE stereotype of one race, not a whole country. Nobody I know even listens to Rap. What a Euro douche you are. You should try waking up a little.

Largion
02-17-2009, 20:53
What a sad country. To just let your Government tell you what you can and cannot do is just lame. Can hunters at least own a gun? Or are there no hunters in Sweden?

Hunters can have rifles and no automatics.

Edit: And there is a law that you need to lock them up so you cant have a rifle beside your bed or anything like that

And your goverment dont tell you what to do? That was one of the best jokes today.

Rourke
02-17-2009, 20:53
Hunters can have rifles and no automatics.

Same here. So guns ARE NOT illegal in Sweden then?

MyFingID
02-17-2009, 20:54
You're not going to get rid of guns by banning them. Many people will hide their weapons, saying they sold them and such. Bad guys certainly won't turn in their guns, they're not law abiding citizens. Also we can't stop people from walking across our border, you really think we re gunna stop guns?

Not that any of this matters. This is America. We have a constitutional right guaranteeing us the right to bear arms. If the gov tries to take them, guarantee they'll start a resistance, if not full on rebellion.

Btw back in the day my father took a .22 rifle to school. He kept it, and bullets, in his locker. At lunch he would go target shooting with it. Here's the shocker (wish I knew how to do that spoiler thing):



To this day he has shot :







No one.

I know. I heard gun and school in the same sentence and assumed he murdered everyone that ever walked near that school ever. Not like there aren't millions of gun owners who aren't crazy retards that shoot everyone they see.

Reigngod
02-17-2009, 20:58
Naah i like Jon Lajoie's stuff. Look at some of his other videos, they are downright hilarious. 2Girls1Cup song, where sings a love song based around that nasty video.

High as Fuck is great! You're in the bathroom mirror talking to yourself and your dogs lookin' at you like you need help...Have you ever been high as fuuuuck! :lmao:

lmao...."Thats fucked up, why do the chickens have human arms...Have you ever been high as fuuuuck!" Thats pretty good...i think i am a new fan.

Rourke
02-17-2009, 20:59
You're not going to get rid of guns by banning them. Many people will hide their weapons, saying they sold them and such. Bad guys certainly won't turn in their guns, they're not law abiding citizens. Also we can't stop people from walking across our border, you really think we re gunna stop guns?

Not that any of this matters. This is America. We have a constitutional right guaranteeing us the right to bear arms. If the gov tries to take them, guarantee they'll start a resistance, if not full on rebellion.

Btw back in the day my father took a .22 rifle to school. He kept it, and bullets, in his locker. At lunch he would go target shooting with it. Here's the shocker (wish I knew how to do that spoiler thing):



To this day he has shot :







No one.

I know. I heard gun and school in the same sentence and assumed he murdered everyone that ever walked near that school ever. Not like there aren't millions of gun owners who aren't crazy retards that shoot everyone they see.

You can't convince Euro's of this though. They seem to live, eat and breathe propaganda, and stereotypes as much as Americans do of others. IF your born into a culture, where the Government ALWAYS has told you how to live, you're not going to understand the concepts of gun-ownerships.

England was the last hope for Europe, and they even gave in. Aussies gave in too. We are the last of the Mohicans imo.

Largion
02-17-2009, 21:02
Same here. So guns ARE NOT illegal in Sweden then?

Not rifles for hunters but you dont hunt with pistols so thats not a hunting weapond.
You can get a license for a pistol if your in a shooting club but I think thats hard and I dont know of anyone that have one.

MyFingID
02-17-2009, 21:07
You can't convince Euro's of this though. They seem to live, eat and breathe propaganda, and stereotypes as much as Americans do of others. IF your born into a culture, where the Government ALWAYS has told you how to live, you're not going to understand the concepts of gun-ownerships.

England was the last hope for Europe, and they even gave in. Aussies gave in too. We are the last of the Mohicans imo.

Unfortunantly I don't think we ll last much longer. Idiots are more than willing to give their freedoms and the freedoms of those around them to the government. The next generation is also being taught to rely on the government for everything. If rebellion doesn't happen within the next 50 or so years, it may be too late. The rights of the individual will be lost.

On a happy note the cycle of civilization shows that once a group is too oppressed by its government they will overthrow it!

Rourke
02-17-2009, 21:10
Unfortunantly I don't think we ll last much longer. Idiots are more than willing to give their freedoms and the freedoms of those around them to the government. The next generation is also being taught to rely on the government for everything. If rebellion doesn't happen within the next 50 or so years, it may be too late. The rights of the individual will be lost.

On a happy note the cycle of civilization shows that once a group is too oppressed by its government they will overthrow it!

Thankfully all my guns keep getting lost on canoe trips. Sad really.

MyFingID
02-17-2009, 21:14
Not rifles for hunters but you dont hunt with pistols so thats not a hunting weapond.
You can get a license for a pistol if your in a shooting club but I think thats hard and I dont know of anyone that have one.

I feel sorry for you guys. I own a .22 rifle, an AK-47 (semi auto only), a .270 rifle and a 1911 (WWII style) pistol. My friends also own a few pisto
ls and rifles as well as 1 shotgun. We don't get to go shooting as much as we used to be when we do its a blast!

Gruum
02-17-2009, 21:15
You can't convince Euro's of this though. They seem to live, eat and breathe propaganda, and stereotypes as much as Americans do of others. IF your born into a culture, where the Government ALWAYS has told you how to live, you're not going to understand the concepts of gun-ownerships.

How about you take some history lessons ;)
Because there were some propaganda in the past (ever heard about World War 2?), we dont believe everything.
And we learn from our mistakes.

MyFingID
02-17-2009, 21:16
Thankfully all my guns keep getting lost on canoe trips. Sad really.

Lol, my point exactly.

Reigngod
02-17-2009, 21:19
Not rifles for hunters but you dont hunt with pistols so thats not a hunting weapond.
You can get a license for a pistol if your in a shooting club but I think thats hard and I dont know of anyone that have one.

Thats the same thing here. You are not supposed to have a gun unless you are liscensed or have a permit for it. So the guns in sweden are not banned...they are regulated...just like they are here. Also, how many manufacturers of guns do you have in sweden? Here in the US we has a good show of weapons makers.

The problem comes when someone breaks into a store and steals the guns or the military "misplaces" a stockpile that somehow wind up on the streets in the hands of gangs. The circulation of them will never end.

I have registered ones and non registered ones. Rifles, handguns, and assault types...bolt, semi, and auto. I have never killed someone here in the US with my weapons. I sure as hell would though if you break into my home.

Rourke
02-17-2009, 21:21
How about you take some history lessons ;)
Because there were some propaganda in the past (ever heard about World War 2?), we dont believe everything.
And we learn from our mistakes.

WW2 war propoganda has WHAT to do with people here saying ALL Americans are wanna-be gangbangers, who listen to too much rap?

In fact, how the hell can that even be close to what anyone would think about the US? Sad to say, but I see more wanna-be gangsters in Europe than here.

I don't think you've learned anything since the war anyways. I really don't. History is just repeating itself, slowly but surely. It always will. Humans are dumber than you think.

MyFingID
02-17-2009, 21:21
How about you take some history lessons ;)
Because there were some propaganda in the past (ever heard about World War 2?), we dont believe everything.
And we learn from our mistakes.

We learned right at the start that in order to overthrow an overbearing tyrannical government you need an armed populous. That's why the second amendment exists, to prevent the government from taking our guns so should the time arise when the government must be overthrown, the citizens would have the tools to do it.

Largion
02-17-2009, 21:27
Thats the same thing here. You are not supposed to have a gun unless you are liscensed or have a permit for it. So the guns in sweden are not banned...they are regulated...just like they are here. Also, how many manufacturers of guns do you have in sweden? Here in the US we has a good show of weapons makers.

The problem comes when someone breaks into a store and steals the guns or the military "misplaces" a stockpile that somehow wind up on the streets in the hands of gangs. The circulation of them will never end.

We have Mossberg. The fun fact about them is that alot of the guns they make are illigal here and get shiped to the US market.
And I think the requirement for a license is alot higher and restricted to something like 2-3 rifles.

A hunting rifle in Sweden is a shootgun or a scope rifle, not a semi-auto. ;)

Reigngod
02-17-2009, 21:30
We learned right at the start that in order to overthrow an overbearing tyrannical government you need an armed populous. That's why the second amendment exists, to prevent the government from taking our guns so should the time arise when the government must be overthrown, the citizens would have the tools to do it.


These days, you do not need arms to overthrow the government. Just a more united people than the officials in the government.

Rourke
02-17-2009, 21:31
We have Mossberg. The fun fact about them is that alot of the guns they make are illigal here and get shiped to the US market.
And I think the requirement for a license is alot higher and restricted to something like 2-3 rifles.

A hunting rifle in Sweden is a shootgun or a scope rifle, not a semi-auto. ;)

Most hunting rifles are Bolt-Actions anyways. Not many semi-autos are much good, besides Varmit shooting.

I don't think you even KNOW what the requirements are in Sweden, but in my state it can't get any stricter. I would say passing a review by the State Police, ATF, and FBI, plus a fingerprint run, and an instant background check through the FBI each time I buy a gun, is fucking strict.

Mossberg are poop. IMO at least. I hated the shotguns they make. Remigton 870's ftw. Cheap and awesome.

Reigngod
02-17-2009, 21:33
We have Mossberg. The fun fact about them is that alot of the guns they make are illigal here and get shiped to the US market.
And I think the requirement for a license is alot higher and restricted to something like 2-3 rifles.

A hunting rifle in Sweden is a shootgun or a scope rifle, not a semi-auto. ;)


So, the Swedens are ruining the US by shipping their guns into our country....I should have known :ohno:

tyrecies
02-17-2009, 21:36
does not Switzerland require military service and that every citizen have a weapon they are trained in and also have low robbery rates? If every citizen had a fully auto weapon, I doubt that many people would get robbed, and as a nice side perk the government might quite their BS.

MyFingID
02-17-2009, 21:38
We have Mossberg. The fun fact about them is that alot of the guns they make are illigal here and get shiped to the US market.
And I think the requirement for a license is alot higher and restricted to something like 2-3 rifles.

A hunting rifle in Sweden is a shootgun or a scope rifle, not a semi-auto. ;)

Doesn't that annoy you though? I'm sure you're a good citizen, why should your government basicly tell you "we don't trust you, you can only have bolt action rifles"? I mean honestly you only live once, so why should the government place such restrictions on your liberty.

That's the biggest problem I have with my country today. Why does my government care if I do drugs or swear in public. Why does the government tell me what I can or cannot see on tv, or hear on radio. Why does the government tell private business owners they may not allow smoking in their building? These are not things the government needs to concern itself with.

Rourke
02-17-2009, 21:39
does not Switzerland require military service and that every citizen have a weapon they are trained in and also have low robbery rates? If every citizen had a fully auto weapon, I doubt that many people would get robbed, and as a nice side perk the government might quite their BS.

Your right, I know this is a Wiki link, but still...AWESOME!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

Wow, and I thought the Swiss only made watches and chocolate. Good for them!! They even HAVE to have a gun!! I like it!! America should do this!!

Largion
02-17-2009, 21:39
Most hunting rifles are Bolt-Actions anyways. Not many semi-autos are much good, besides Varmit shooting.

I don't think you even KNOW what the requirements are in Sweden, but in my state it can't get any stricter. I would say passing a review by the State Police, ATF, and FBI, plus a fingerprint run, and an instant background check through the FBI each time I buy a gun, is fucking strict.

Mossberg are poop. IMO at least. I hated the shotguns they make. Remigton 870's ftw. Cheap and awesome.

Well I have been out hunting but Im not 100% sure about evertything you need to do before you get the licence. But what I do know is that you will have to get checked out by the police then you need go pass courses and and things like that.

Rourke
02-17-2009, 21:42
Well I have been out hunting but Im not 100% sure about evertything you need to do before you get the licence. But what I do know is that you will have to get checked out by the police then you need go pass courses and and things like that.

You've basically said that Sweden is no different than the US. You realize that right? Fucking gangbanging Swedes.

Largion
02-17-2009, 21:42
Doesn't that annoy you though? I'm sure you're a good citizen, why should your government basicly tell you "we don't trust you, you can only have bolt action rifles"? I mean honestly you only live once, so why should the government place such restrictions on your liberty.

That's the biggest problem I have with my country today. Why does my government care if I do drugs or swear in public. Why does the government tell me what I can or cannot see on tv, or hear on radio. Why does the government tell private business owners they may not allow smoking in their building? These are not things the government needs to concern itself with.

But why would I need one?
Guns are rare here so its not like I will need one to defend myself.

MyFingID
02-17-2009, 21:42
These days, you do not need arms to overthrow the government. Just a more united people than the officials in the government.

Are you serious? If a million people walked into DC and demanded the government step down do you really think they'd do so. I certainly don't. Guns are needed to keep the government in check. Without them the gov could do whatever it wants. The constitution is just a piece of paper, it only has power because the citizenship believes it does, and because the citizenship has the power to enforce that belief.

Reigngod
02-17-2009, 21:44
Well I have been out hunting but Im not 100% sure about evertything you need to do before you get the licence. But what I do know is that you will have to get checked out by the police then you need go pass courses and and things like that.

Thats a long haul from all guns being banned in sweden.

Largion
02-17-2009, 21:48
You've basically said that Sweden is no different than the US. You realize that right? Fucking gangbanging Swedes.

Well we still dont have auto or semi-auto rifles and hardly any pistols. If your state have hard restrictions on guns then is it the states around thats the problem?

And if you do like you said and "lose" your guns alittle now and then there is no way they would let you keep your licens.

NOT directed to you Rourke but a side fact is that open racist are not allowed to have a gun or do the military service. :D

MyFingID
02-17-2009, 21:48
But why would I need one?
Guns are rare here so its not like I will need one to defend myself.

Who said anything about defending yourself. Target shootings fun. Why settle for a bolt when you can use a pistol, or a AK. I still want to go skeet shooting with a shotgun some day. I enjoy shooting. Again you only live once, why shouldn't you be able to do what you want so long as it doesn't hurt anyone else?

Reigngod
02-17-2009, 21:49
Are you serious? If a million people walked into DC and demanded the government step down do you really think they'd do so. I certainly don't. Guns are needed to keep the government in check. Without them the gov could do whatever it wants. The constitution is just a piece of paper, it only has power because the citizenship believes it does, and because the citizenship has the power to enforce that belief.

No, the people can, however , remove elected officials from offices, file law suits, organize protests of way more than a measley million(were talking Millionslike 100X the obama inauguration). There are tons of ways for the people to overthrow the government. We just have to be united to do any of it. At this point..noone is motivated enough to do as much...

Largion
02-17-2009, 21:49
Are you serious? If a million people walked into DC and demanded the government step down do you really think they'd do so. I certainly don't. Guns are needed to keep the government in check. Without them the gov could do whatever it wants. The constitution is just a piece of paper, it only has power because the citizenship believes it does, and because the citizenship has the power to enforce that belief.

Im to lazy to go back and read but I dont think I have said that. But its not like someone is going to rob a bank with a bolt rifle.

Reigngod
02-17-2009, 21:51
Im to lazy to go back and read but I dont think I have said that. But its not like someone is going to rob a bank with a bolt rifle.

If noone else has a gun, that bolt rifle is all that is needed and more.

MyFingID
02-17-2009, 22:01
No, the people can, however , remove elected officials from offices, file law suits, organize protests of way more than a measley million(were talking Millionslike 100X the obama inauguration). There are tons of ways for the people to overthrow the government. We just have to be united to do any of it. At this point..noone is motivated enough to do as much...

So a third of the country needs to get tied into the legal system? You know laws change all the time right. What if Bush suspended the elections under the guise of national emergency like some nuts were saying? What if Obama ends term limits. He represents what, 55% of the popular vote. What about the 45% he doesn't represent.

My point is you can't trust the government to always govern itself. Yes things are fine now, but with each term government and presidential power grows. 8 years ago I could board a plane without taking my shoes off. Hell 8 years ago I could take a bottle of water on a plane. 8 years ago the gov couldn't tap your phone and 8 years ago I could cross the street without being seen by some camera on a traffic signal bar.

I'm no conspiracy nut, but even as slow as government power grows, it continues to grow. Armed citizens will be the only way to stop it if it continues to grow like it is.

Reigngod
02-17-2009, 22:21
So a third of the country needs to get tied into the legal system? You know laws change all the time right. What if Bush suspended the elections under the guise of national emergency like some nuts were saying? What if Obama ends term limits. He represents what, 55% of the popular vote. What about the 45% he doesn't represent.

My point is you can't trust the government to always govern itself. Yes things are fine now, but with each term government and presidential power grows. 8 years ago I could board a plane without taking my shoes off. Hell 8 years ago I could take a bottle of water on a plane. 8 years ago the gov couldn't tap your phone and 8 years ago I could cross the street without being seen by some camera on a traffic signal bar.

I'm no conspiracy nut, but even as slow as government power grows, it continues to grow. Armed citizens will be the only way to stop it if it continues to grow like it is.

Now you just are losing all logical credability. The government does not mandate you taking your shoes off in the airport. The Airport mandates that. The same thing with what you take on a plane is mandated by TSA or the specific airline. The government has been tapping phones longer than you have been alive. If you think the patriot act changed anything, you are sorely mistaken...it just let us know they were doing it. lol

Cameras have been used for security for much longer than 8 years...any surprise that technology has allowed us to monitor public places to assure accountability of the action of citizens?

Everything you think you are losing has either been long lost/never had, or is not controlled by our government.

Wherever you got the thought that the president could change his own term length is absurd. He could submit to change future terms, but he was elected for a 4 year term and that holds true.

Believe me, I am not defending the government as I am 100% on the side of keeping as many rights and freedoms that we are allowed in the constitution of the United States of America...but you seem to want to blame the government for every single change that you face in your life. That shows a little mental instability and paranoia issues.

If the public attacked with force, the military would defend the government. If the public attacked the government with legality and unity, the military members would join their families in that fight.

StainlessSteelRat
02-17-2009, 22:29
But why would I need one?
Guns are rare here so its not like I will need one to defend myself.

Why this assumption that a gun is only needed to defend against someone w/ a gun?

Would you rather take your chances when assaulted by a knife wielder and fend them off w/ your hands or pull a gun and 'own' his ass?

That's what most of you don't understand and fail to show when claiming that right to carry should be restricted etc. etc.

Just because a criminal can not get a gun does not mean he/she will not commit the crime. Once again, only 24% of violent crime in the US is perpetrated w/ a firearm. Homicide is one of those violent crimes. Over half the homicides are suicides. So, less than 24% (probably close to 14% or so) are actual crimes perpetrated w/ a firearm. If you take away the guns, will that 14% disappear? Based on gun ban legislation, you can't keep the guns away from criminals. But even assuming you could, would the number of violent crimes drop? No evidence exists to suggest that it will. Therefore, banning guns is stupid and only reduces the liklihood that a law abiding citizen will/can defend themselves from attack.

Gruum - all your arguments are hypothetical. The video is not made up. It's 20/20 on ABC. If anything was faked, someone would have found them out by now. Reality > hypothetical no matter how 'logical' your hypothetical might sound.

All the Euros claiming they are safer than Americans are fooling themselves. The links and stats have been posted before in this and other threads so I'm not digging them up again. You aren't safer (necessarily) and even if you are, it's not b/c of gun legislation.

Guns do not cause crime.

Reigngod
02-17-2009, 22:46
Why this assumption that a gun is only needed to defend against someone w/ a gun?

Would you rather take your chances when assaulted by a knife wielder and fend them off w/ your hands or pull a gun and 'own' his ass?

That's what most of you don't understand and fail to show when claiming that right to carry should be restricted etc. etc.

Just because a criminal can not get a gun does not mean he/she will not commit the crime. Once again, only 24% of violent crime in the US is perpetrated w/ a firearm. Homicide is one of those violent crimes. Over half the homicides are suicides. So, less than 24% (probably close to 14% or so) are actual crimes perpetrated w/ a firearm. If you take away the guns, will that 14% disappear? Based on gun ban legislation, you can't keep the guns away from criminals. But even assuming you could, would the number of violent crimes drop? No evidence exists to suggest that it will. Therefore, banning guns is stupid and only reduces the liklihood that a law abiding citizen will/can defend themselves from attack.

Gruum - all your arguments are hypothetical. The video is not made up. It's 20/20 on ABC. If anything was faked, someone would have found them out by now. Reality > hypothetical no matter how 'logical' your hypothetical might sound.

All the Euros claiming they are safer than Americans are fooling themselves. The links and stats have been posted before in this and other threads so I'm not digging them up again. You aren't safer (necessarily) and even if you are, it's not b/c of gun legislation.

Guns do not cause crime.

Half of those homicides are not suicides. Homicides and suicides are completely separate entities when reported on by authorities. I'd like to see where that information came from lumping the two together.

According to the Bureau of Justice, after 1996 less than 10% of non-fatal violent crimes(such as robbery, rape, drug related incidents, assault(agravated and simple), ect) are committed with a firearm.

After 1996, 63% of fatal crimes involved firearms.

How many of those fatal crimes could have been avoided if the victim was armed and trained in its use? Not all, but I bet a good bit.

StainlessSteelRat
02-17-2009, 22:52
Half of those homicides are not suicides. Homicides and suicides are completely separate entities when reported on by authorities. I'd like to see where that information came from lumping the two together.

Check the statistic links throughout this thread; it's noted where appropriate.

It's hard to tell sometimes what's what. Does the violent crime figure of 'x' include 'y'? Does the homicide figure etc. etc. Everybody seems to collect the data differently. But I've seen several instances noting that US homicides include suicides. And in this thread is a link to the specifics of over half of all homicides being suicides.

Reigngod
02-17-2009, 22:56
Check the statistic links throughout this thread; it's noted where appropriate.

It's hard to tell sometimes what's what. Does the violent crime figure of 'x' include 'y'? Does the homicide figure etc. etc. Everybody seems to collect the data differently. But I've seen several instances noting that US homicides include suicides. And in this thread is a link to the specifics of over half of all homicides being suicides.

Yeah, they do not get reported together. A homicide is a violent crime resulting in the fatality of another person. That gets put into the violent crime category.

Suicides get thrown into its own separate category completely. Especially since it isnt a crime. You cannot charge me with suicide when I am dead. :)

StainlessSteelRat
02-17-2009, 23:00
Yeah, they do not get reported together. A homicide is a violent crime resulting in the fatality of another person. That gets put into the violent crime category.

Suicides get thrown into its own separate category completely. Especially since it isnt a crime. You cannot charge me with suicide when I am dead. :)

You are wrong w/ regards to the data posted here. Maybe, new data and collection methods have distinguished between the two but feel free to check the links. One would not expect them to be lumped into one figure but they are/were...

Reigngod
02-17-2009, 23:02
You are wrong w/ regards to the data posted here. Maybe, new data and collection methods have distinguished between the two but feel free to check the links. One would not expect them to be lumped into one figure but they are/were...

That data is skewed and not specific so my data would be more accurate showing the actual usage of firearms in fatal and non-fatal crimes in the US.

Suicides hold no mark either way whether or not legislation is needed as a suicide with a gun did not hurt anyone other than the person committing suicide.

MyFingID
02-17-2009, 23:49
Now you just are losing all logical credability. The government does not mandate you taking your shoes off in the airport. The Airport mandates that. The same thing with what you take on a plane is mandated by TSA or the specific airline. The government has been tapping phones longer than you have been alive. If you think the patriot act changed anything, you are sorely mistaken...it just let us know they were doing it. lol


TSA stands for Transportation Security Agency and is under the Department of Homeland Security. Clearly they are part of the government and telling you what you can and cannot take on a plane. Lets not forget that nice government No Fly list. No, that's not overbearing in the least. Some terrorists fly planes into towers so the gov tells about 400,000 people they can't fly? Come on now.

As for wiretaps used to be you got the warrant before the tap, not after. I still disagree with both methods, but clearly you can see the expansion of government influence.



Cameras have been used for security for much longer than 8 years...any surprise that technology has allowed us to monitor public places to assure accountability of the action of citizens?


Yes. There is no reason for the government to play big brother. It's crazy that the government is watching its citizens with cameras. I don't know why you don't see anything wrong with this.




Everything you think you are losing has either been long lost/never had, or is not controlled by our government.

Wherever you got the thought that the president could change his own term length is absurd. He could submit to change future terms, but he was elected for a 4 year term and that holds true.


I know the president cannot change term limits. However this is being proposed right now as it always is. You haven't heard any of the controversy on this subject?



Believe me, I am not defending the government as I am 100% on the side of keeping as many rights and freedoms that we are allowed in the constitution of the United States of America...but you seem to want to blame the government for every single change that you face in your life. That shows a little mental instability and paranoia issues.

If the public attacked with force, the military would defend the government. If the public attacked the government with legality and unity, the military members would join their families in that fight.


First off you're not on the side of keeping as many rights as we are allowed by the constitution if you are for gun control. You seem to think taking away the second amendment is fine. That's not being 100% for our rights. Also you call me paranoid but I'm not the one that's ok with government cameras all over the place to watch out for bad guys and taking away peoples right to bear arms. I'm for people doing whatever the hell they want so long as they don't hurt anyone and I'm for a small, unintrusive government that regulates trade and defends the country. It's not the governments job to keep drugs off the streets, censor TV (hope you can see that as the 1st amendment violation it is), tell bars they can't allow smoking, watch me at the airport, or watch me walking down the street. If I want to smoke pot, marry 3 girls and a guy, build my own house out of cardboard and bubble gum, and own a machinegun, that's my business, not the governments. So long as I'm not hurting anyone I should be able to do wtf I want. This country was founded in a way to protect the individual freedoms of its citizens more than the government itself. It’s starting to turn the other way because people are all about voting away everyones freedoms so they feel a little safer.

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.

-Benjamin Franklin

Like many things the forefathers said, it's as true today as it was back then. However like all societies this one will either oppress the people enough to cause rebellion or be taken over by a hostile country. Either way when it happens and we’re all defenseless, you need only to look to those who gave away our arms, because they’ll be the ones that left us in that situation.

Gruum
02-17-2009, 23:49
So, we in europe aren't safer?
Can you go in every part of the cities in your state every time?
How is the crime rate in the US compared to the crime rate in europe?
How many of these crimes are committed with guns?

Jezrith
02-18-2009, 00:02
You're still acting like EVERYTHING written on the internet is fucking true, you are clearly ignorant.


So let me see if I have this straight; since I can easily spot bullshit on a wikipage, I'm acting like EVERYTHING written on the internet is true? How the hell is being smart enough to easily spot bullshit make me ignorant? And you call me ignorant after posting this zenith of idiocy? Yeah, you aren't ignorant, you are in a whole other category of tree-stump dumb.



the only thing I tried to get into your head is that it's very easy to fake shit without people ever knowing or figuring it out long after.

And the only thing I tried to get into your head, is if your not a gullible dim-wit fake shit is easy to spot. Apparently you have never had to write a research paper before...

MyFingID
02-18-2009, 00:09
So, we in europe aren't safer?
Can you go in every part of the cities in your state every time?
How is the crime rate in the US compared to the crime rate in europe?
How many of these crimes are committed with guns?

Hows that second Chechen war going?
South Ossetia sounds like a fine place too.
Kosovo still good?
What about those slums is Paris I think it that riots every now and then?

How many wars were going on in the US from 1990-1999, cause it looks like Europe had 10 or so. Oh but gang members and such right?

Reigngod
02-18-2009, 00:12
TSA stands for Transportation Security Agency and is under the Department of Homeland Security. Clearly they are part of the government and telling you what you can and cannot take on a plane. Lets not forget that nice government No Fly list. No, that's not overbearing in the least. Some terrorists fly planes into towers so the gov tells about 400,000 people they can't fly? Come on now.

Edited: TSA makes no decisions on what passes through. The airlines do with TSA as a laison between airports and security agencies associated with TSA to create a standard to follow nationwide. TSA enforces the restrictions using Federal, State, and regional resources.

Less than 400,000 people on the no fly list and 95% of them are not US citizens. If you have a problem with that, then I hope the next time you fly, the fucker with the trigger is sitting next to you.


As for wiretaps used to be you got the warrant before the tap, not after. I still disagree with both methods, but clearly you can see the expansion of government influence.

That used to be the procedure...but do you actually think they got warrants for all the wiretaps before the act? I'll place a bet that the majority of wiretaps before were done without authorization anyways.




Yes. There is no reason for the government to play big brother. It's crazy that the government is watching its citizens with cameras. I don't know why you don't see anything wrong with this.

Its not just the government if you didnt know. 7-11 has been watching you with cameras for quite some time too. lol....You really are paranoid arent you?


I know the president cannot change term limits. However this is being proposed right now as it always is. You haven't heard any of the controversy on this subject?

Why would you make such a stupid comment then? Seriously?




1)First off you're not on the side of keeping as many rights as we are allowed by the constitution if you are for gun control. You seem to think taking away the second amendment is fine. That's not being 100% for our rights. 2)Also you call me paranoid but I'm not the one that's ok with government cameras all over the place to watch out for bad guys and taking away peoples right to bear arms. I'm for people doing whatever the hell they want so long as they don't hurt anyone and I'm for a small, unintrusive government that regulates trade and defends the country. It's not the governments job to keep drugs off the streets, censor TV (hope you can see that as the 1st amendment violation it is), tell bars they can't allow smoking, watch me at the airport, or watch me walking down the street. If I want to smoke pot, marry 3 girls and a guy, build my own house out of cardboard and bubble gum, and own a machinegun, that's my business, not the governments. So long as I'm not hurting anyone I should be able to do wtf I want. 3)This country was founded in a way to protect the individual freedoms of its citizens more than the government itself. It’s starting to turn the other way because people are all about voting away everyones freedoms so they feel a little safer.

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.

1) I am not for gun legislation...are you completely illiterate? Or do you just have a problem reading? ;) I want very little gun legislation. You can hav whatever weapon you want...I just want it registered. A simple registration, not this hoops and jumps registration we have now. Write your name and the guns serial number.

2) From the way you started the sentence, it seemed like you were calling me paranoid....then you got all paranoid and started rambling about what "big brother" has taken from you and what will be next. Look up the definition of Paranoia

3) The individuals of this country are changing this country. WE vote our own countrymen into office. They bleed just like we do and are not machines or aliens. If you don't like one...CHANGE IT DOOFUS!! LMAO You say our government is too powerful...our government is run by the people.


-Benjamin Franklin

Like many things the forefathers said, it's as true today as it was back then. However like all societies this one will either oppress the people enough to cause rebellion or be taken over by a hostile country. Either way when it happens and we’re all defenseless, you need only to look to those who gave away our arms, because they’ll be the ones that left us in that situation.

Arms in this quote does not necessarily mean guns. It can mean legal avenues...protests...there are many ways to rebel. Shooting a man in the face is not the first one you should go to.

Do you really think Martin Luther King Jr had a real dream?

Nunz
02-18-2009, 00:18
LOL I read the first string of posts and replies from this OP and I sure as hell don't want this moron carrying hahaaa


He all ready showed how he would just end up shooting someone who was on his side LOL

Vercis
02-18-2009, 00:20
Unfortunantly I don't think we ll last much longer. Idiots are more than willing to give their freedoms and the freedoms of those around them to the government. The next generation is also being taught to rely on the government for everything. If rebellion doesn't happen within the next 50 or so years, it may be too late. The rights of the individual will be lost.

On a happy note the cycle of civilization shows that once a group is too oppressed by its government they will overthrow it!
Omg that's so "God Bless America", "We fight for freedom"

For some reason you are forgetting the freedom of the other countries when you invade them!

Reigngod
02-18-2009, 00:22
Omg that's so "God Bless America", "We fight for freedom"

For some reason you are forgetting the freedom of the other countries when you invade them!


Im ganna start calling him "Joe the Darkfall Troll"

Vercis
02-18-2009, 00:30
Hows that second Chechen war going?
South Ossetia sounds like a fine place too.
Kosovo still good?
What about those slums is Paris I think it that riots every now and then?

How many wars were going on in the US from 1990-1999, cause it looks like Europe had 10 or so. Oh but gang members and such right?

First of all you are a moron, we are talking about crimes not wars!
Secondly for Chechenya, Afghanistan, Kosovo, Vietnam, Iraq, future iran. Guess who is fuking responsible for all these wars? you fuking idiot, next time go complain your shitty goverments propaganda.

Reigngod
02-18-2009, 00:33
First of all you are a moron, we are talking about crimes not wars!
Secondly for Chechenya, Afghanistan, Kosovo, Vietnam, Iraq, future iran. Guess who is fuking responsible for all these wars? you fuking idiot, next time go complain your shitty goverments propaganda.

Can you explain and show sources proving that we were responsible for all those wars? Not that we may have been involved...but responsible like you said.

I still dont like your accent BTW...

Vercis
02-18-2009, 00:41
Can you explain and show sources proving that we were responsible for all those wars? Not that we may have been involved...but responsible like you said.

I still dont like your accent BTW...

No comments... another blind American!

PS: Well I can't see what's wrong having an accent since it's not the language we speak in my country. Oh, and besides that I can speak pretty good up to 3 languages, how about you? Are you an educated american, or you're of the opinion "omfg the whole world should speak my language cause we are teh imba nation and we are bringing peace"

PS 2: No offense friend, I'm fucking not against american people, I love you and I would like to visit your country for tourism! But you guys should admit that the most propagand out there is produced by your government and if you think that having Obama at the white house will change a thing, you are sadly wrong. He is just a peon!

Rourke
02-18-2009, 00:42
First of all you are a moron, we are talking about crimes not wars!
Secondly for Chechenya, Afghanistan, Kosovo, Vietnam, Iraq, future iran. Guess who is fuking responsible for all these wars? you fuking idiot, next time go complain your shitty goverments propaganda.

America caused Chechen Rebels to fight against Russia and Milosevic to go Genocide crazy?? Didn't France start the shit in Vietnam 1st?

MyFingID
02-18-2009, 00:48
Less than 400,000 people on the no fly list and 95% of them are not US citizens. If you have a problem with that, then I hope the next time you fly, the fucker with the trigger is sitting next to you.


The government never makes mistakes or just goes after people it doesn't like, right?

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/08/19/tsa.watch.list/index.html
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2008/09/11/nofly-name.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/07/AR2008100703245_pf.html



That used to be the procedure...but do you actually think they got warrants for all the wiretaps before the act? I'll place a bet that the majority of wiretaps before were done without authorization anyways.


So you're saying that because they did it illegally it should be legal? Normally if the gov did something illegally to prosecute someone, it's thrown out of court. This is for your protection.





Its not just the government if you didnt know. 7-11 has been watching you with cameras for quite some time too. lol....You really are paranoid arent you?


Yes, that's a private business not the government. I have the option of not entering a private business. What's my option with government cameras over the streets, stay at home? Again you call me paranoid, but I don't need the gov watching over me to make sure I'm safe.



Why would you make such a stupid comment then? Seriously?


Out of all the things I've said in this entire thread I misrepresent one thing. Shoot me :D





1) I am not for gun legislation...are you completely illiterate? Or do you just have a problem reading? ;) I want very little gun legislation. You can hav whatever weapon you want...I just want it registered. A simple registration, not this hoops and jumps registration we have now. Write your name and the guns serial number.

2) From the way you started the sentence, it seemed like you were calling me paranoid....then you got all paranoid and started rambling about what "big brother" has taken from you and what will be next. Look up the definition of Paranoia

3) The individuals of this country are changing this country. WE vote our own countrymen into office. They bleed just like we do and are not machines or aliens. If you don't like one...CHANGE IT DOOFUS!! LMAO You say our government is too powerful...our government is run by the people.



Arms in this quote does not necessarily mean guns. It can mean legal avenues...protests...there are many ways to rebel. Shooting a man in the face is not the first one you should go to.

1) From what I was reading you seemed to want guns banned. It seemed you were against people having firearms and saying that America would be safer without them. I don't believe that to be true. With the open boarder to the south It's not that hard for drug runners to switch to arms runners.

2) So wanting freedom from government = paranoia now? Again I'm not the one that's wants government cameras tracking my moves. It's not paranoia, its basic liberty. I should be free to walk down the street without the government watching me.

3) Yes we vote the people in and yes I vote. I actually voted against all incumbents this round because I've been unhappy with the direction of government. I also vote for who best represents me rather than party lines. You seem to think government can't do things without the will of the people. Look at government approval ratings atm. House, senate, president. The ratings aren't low because they're doing what we want. People have been pissed for a while now.

You act like the government never violates peoples rights.

Katrina
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4

The FCC, constantly on the 1st

Ever hear of a pat down?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisking
I've had that happen numerous times as a teen.

Oh and that “quote” is something I said. I didn’t quote anyone and by arms I most certainly meant guns, but thanks for thinking I quoted someone:)

Ah, I see what happened. I put the quoted person at the bottom of the quote. Still though, I feel like I'm up there with Franklin now lol. Rather be up there with Jefferson though.

MyFingID
02-18-2009, 00:50
Omg that's so "God Bless America", "We fight for freedom"

For some reason you are forgetting the freedom of the other countries when you invade them!

I'm for neutrality. I'd rather we be the world trade hub than the world police.

Reigngod
02-18-2009, 00:50
No comments... another blind American!

PS: Well I can't see what's wrong having an accent since it's not the language we speak in my country. Oh, and besides that I can speak pretty good up to 3 languages, how about you? Are you an educated american, or you're of the opinion "omfg the whole world should speak my language cause we are teh imba nation and we are bringing peace"

PS 2: No offense friend, I'm fucking not against american people, I love you and I would like to visit your country for tourism! But you guys should admit that the most propagand out there is produced by your government and if you think that having Obama at the white house will change a thing, you are sadly wrong. He is just a peon!

Well now you are running from your own comments and refusing to elaborate on what you stated as factual.

PS: I just dont like your accent.

PS1.5: I am fairly educated. 3 full languages and enough to get by in a good portion of others. I am a well travelled american though which helps. I wouldnt consider knowing languages to be that much of an indication of education level though. I am a high school dropout who completed a GED in the military, now holds a BA from University of Maryland. and a black man is my best friend so I cannot be a racist either!!! ;)

PS2: Nothing personal on here...But I do not like how you think yourself to be so much better than others in education and otherwise. Change your accent too.

MyFingID
02-18-2009, 00:54
Well now you are running from your own comments and refusing to elaborate on what you stated as factual.

PS: I just dont like your accent.

PS1.5: I am fairly educated. 3 full languages and enough to get by in a good portion of others. I am a well travelled american though which helps. I wouldnt consider knowing languages to be that much of an indication of education level though. I am a high school dropout who completed a GED in the military, now holds a BA from University of Maryland. and a black man is my best friend so I cannot be a racist either!!! ;)

PS2: Nothing personal on here...But I do not like how you think yourself to be so much better than others in education and otherwise. Change your accent too.

lol.

Hey what branch? I was Army and currently going for my BA. I'm also good friends with a black man. Well half black, so he's like Obama! LOL racism. One day people will learn to celebrate our similarities rather than our differences and we can end this race calling bull shit.

Vercis
02-18-2009, 00:58
PS: I just dont like your accent.

Change your accent too.

Lol I guess you are just joking around, otherwise how the hell you are supposed to figure what accent do I have? It's just some damn text on forums, I accept the fact that there might be some grammar,syntax etc errors, but w00t accent?

StainlessSteelRat
02-18-2009, 01:02
That data is skewed and not specific so my data would be more accurate showing the actual usage of firearms in fatal and non-fatal crimes in the US.

Suicides hold no mark either way whether or not legislation is needed as a suicide with a gun did not hurt anyone other than the person committing suicide.

I have no idea what your data is... so it may be more precise to the case at hand.

Reigngod
02-18-2009, 01:07
The government never makes mistakes or just goes after people it doesn't like, right?

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/08/19/tsa.watch.list/index.html
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2008/09/11/nofly-name.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/07/AR2008100703245_pf.html



So you're saying that because they did it illegally it should be legal? Normally if the gov did something illegally to prosecute someone, it's thrown out of court. This is for your protection.

I am saying who cares...dont break the law and what does it matter if they listen to you having phone sex with your cousin.




Yes, that's a private business not the government. I have the option of not entering a private business. What's my option with government cameras over the streets, stay at home? Again you call me paranoid, but I don't need the gov watching over me to make sure I'm safe.

You just the same right to take a camera out with you into the public and take as many pictures and video as you wish. Have fun....lol




Out of all the things I've said in this entire thread I misrepresent one thing. Shoot me :D

If I were the type to shoot someone with all the guns I own, I'd be in prison right now having this conversation.




1) From what I was reading you seemed to want guns banned. It seemed you were against people having firearms and saying that America would be safer without them. I don't believe that to be true. With the open boarder to the south It's not that hard for drug runners to switch to arms runners.

2) So wanting freedom from government = paranoia now? Again I'm not the one that's wants government cameras tracking my moves. It's not paranoia, its basic liberty. I should be free to walk down the street without the government watching me.

3) Yes we vote the people in and yes I vote. I actually voted against all incumbents this round because I've been unhappy with the direction of government. I also vote for who best represents me rather than party lines. You seem to think government can't do things without the will of the people. Look at government approval ratings atm. House, senate, president. The ratings aren't low because they're doing what we want. People have been pissed for a while now.


1) Quote me where I said I wanted legislation. In fact, I brought forth evidence that less legislation was needed.

2)No, thinking the government is out to get you is paranoia. Who cares if they have you on footage. Im sure youve been on news cameras before and didnt know...does that bother you? How about going to the theme park and being in the background of someones family photo? Stop crying and live life as a good person. Dont like the rules?...There are ways to legally get the changed. It has been done.

3)Ratings can easily be manipulated by the media to make people feel like an outsider and want to join the "popular table" Its been done that way since forever in nearly every aspect of human life. If you want to eat every word out of the hands of the media, then far be it from me to stop you. I like to make my own decisions based on proof.


You act like the government never violates peoples rights.

Katrina
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4

The FCC, constantly on the 1st

Ever hear of a pat down?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisking
I've had that happen numerous times as a teen.

Oh and that “quote” is something I said. I didn’t quote anyone and by arms I most certainly meant guns, but thanks for thinking I quoted someone:)

I never said the government is perfect. Mistakes are made, and there are definite flaws in the system. If the system was perfect, our society would be a Utopia. Flaws are fixed everyday by the Evil Big Brother...but you fix one flaw, you create 10 smaller ones. The problem is that it is human nature to always want to fix things or make them better. Instead of paranoid delusions of overthrowing the government...get your feet wet and help them understand that they just need to take a step back and look at it for a bit.

You put quotation marks on it to to me it is a quote.

StainlessSteelRat
02-18-2009, 01:09
So, we in europe aren't safer?
Can you go in every part of the cities in your state every time?

b/c you can? Where do you live? Principality of Liechtenstein?


How is the crime rate in the US compared to the crime rate in europe?
How many of these crimes are committed with guns?

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_153_25/ai_75211996

Who cares if the crime is w/ a gun? You can be killed w/ no weapons involved.

Rourke
02-18-2009, 01:12
b/c you can? Where do you live? Principality of Liechtenstein?



http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_153_25/ai_75211996

Who cares if the crime is w/ a gun? You can be killed w/ no weapons involved.

WOW.....I had no idea. Man.....I am really starting to see that a LOT of BS the Euro's throw our way in the US is just utter bullshit.

Reigngod
02-18-2009, 01:13
I have no idea what your data is... so it may be more precise to the case at hand.

It comes from the Bureau(department) of Justice...I had the page up earlier and dont feel much like googling again..but its a simple search to .gov.




lol.

Hey what branch? I was Army and currently going for my BA. I'm also good friends with a black man. Well half black, so he's like Obama! LOL racism. One day people will learn to celebrate our similarities rather than our differences and we can end this race calling bull shit.

I was Air Force....best and worst time in my life....

Good luck with the BA....I hate school and finished it anyways...now I am working as a Firefighter/medic which has nothing to do with my degree. But the money is nice :)

StainlessSteelRat
02-18-2009, 01:24
http://www.benbest.com/lifeext/murder.html

lulz scroll down to the homicide/suicide graph

Looks like the euros just bump themselves off enough to make up for any homicide variance.... not to mention many of the top 10 (which does not include US) homicide rated countries are in the Americas.

Of those who resisted, 63% felt their resistance was useful and 7% said their resistance was harmful. It would be valuable to know the full statistics -- ie, of all those who were attacked, not just the survivors, but technical difficulties...

also quoted for the lulz

Vercis
02-18-2009, 01:29
Yea Euros got crazy dudes who invade and kill everyone at universities and then commit a suicide!

Rourke
02-18-2009, 01:30
Yea Euros got crazy dudes who invade and kill everyone at universities and then commit a suicide!

Wanna keep playing?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/finland/3071235/Finland-school-shooting-Gunman-planned-massacre-for-six-years.html

MyFingID
02-18-2009, 01:41
I am saying who cares...dont break the law and what does it matter if they listen to you having phone sex with your cousin.





You just the same right to take a camera out with you into the public and take as many pictures and video as you wish. Have fun....lol





If I were the type to shoot someone with all the guns I own, I'd be in prison right now having this conversation.






1) Quote me where I said I wanted legislation. In fact, I brought forth evidence that less legislation was needed.

2)No, thinking the government is out to get you is paranoia. Who cares if they have you on footage. Im sure youve been on news cameras before and didnt know...does that bother you? How about going to the theme park and being in the background of someones family photo? Stop crying and live life as a good person. Dont like the rules?...There are ways to legally get the changed. It has been done.

3)Ratings can easily be manipulated by the media to make people feel like an outsider and want to join the "popular table" Its been done that way since forever in nearly every aspect of human life. If you want to eat every word out of the hands of the media, then far be it from me to stop you. I like to make my own decisions based on proof.



I never said the government is perfect. Mistakes are made, and there are definite flaws in the system. If the system was perfect, our society would be a Utopia. Flaws are fixed everyday by the Evil Big Brother...but you fix one flaw, you create 10 smaller ones. The problem is that it is human nature to always want to fix things or make them better. Instead of paranoid delusions of overthrowing the government...get your feet wet and help them understand that they just need to take a step back and look at it for a bit.

You put quotation marks on it to to me it is a quote.


Seems we can agree with guns. Those websites up top consisted of a pilot, a Canadian, and 50 some odd protesters. They were all on the no fly list, the protesters being put there by a police department who didn't like them. Thought you should know because you didn't look at them.

I still don't see why you don't care about government watching you. I'm no criminal, so why am I treated like one? Why are we spending billions on cameras to track a very small portion of the population who commit crime? It's ridiculous. Would you care if the gov put GPS on your car? They're talking about doing it here in Oregon, and I'm completely against that. The gov doesn't need to know where I am or where I went. It's not their business. Like I said it's not paranoia. It's that government has no business tracking me. I really don’t think the gov is going to show up to my door at any moment and take away my rights, I do, however, think that if we keep going the way we’re going that scenario will be a possibility. I’ve showed you a few instances of government going too far. They are all human after all. Doesn’t it make sense to keep them as limited as possible, to keep them on task rather than expanding into realms they don’t need to be in?

Reigngod
02-18-2009, 02:00
Seems we can agree with guns. Those websites up top consisted of a pilot, a Canadian, and 50 some odd protesters. They were all on the no fly list, the protesters being put there by a police department who didn't like them. Thought you should know because you didn't look at them.

I find it unlikely that the police department put those people on the no-fly list since the list is maintained by a sect of the FBI's terrorist watch.

I dont usually look at link that go to news articles or any articles really as they are usually majorly biased and full of garbage.



I still don't see why you don't care about government watching you. I'm no criminal, so why am I treated like one? Why are we spending billions on cameras to track a very small portion of the population who commit crime? It's ridiculous. Would you care if the gov put GPS on your car? They're talking about doing it here in Oregon, and I'm completely against that. The gov doesn't need to know where I am or where I went. It's not their business. Like I said it's not paranoia. It's that government has no business tracking me. I really don’t think the gov is going to show up to my door at any moment and take away my rights, I do, however, think that if we keep going the way we’re going that scenario will be a possibility. I’ve showed you a few instances of government going too far. They are all human after all. Doesn’t it make sense to keep them as limited as possible, to keep them on task rather than expanding into realms they don’t need to be in?

You arent treated like a criminal. That small portion of the population causes major amounts of damage to property and life each year. I applaud the effort to make it safer. Those cameras are not being "watched" 24/7. they are run by a computer with special recognition software. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt. You could commit a crime right under the camera, and it the crime was never reported, you will get away with it.

The system works with the public, not a standalone crime fighting super computer. I dont care If I am taped having diarhea in the woods and have to wipe my tail with unrecognizable roadkill. I feel bad for whoever sees it if they do but whatever.

Fighting a physical was with the government would wind up with alot of funerals...they are better armed....Beating the government at its own game is being done every day on all sorts of stages. Get involved and put your penis stamp on this country. I dont care much because Thats kind of the person I am.

Ill sit back until I lose it one day, kill 100 people and sit down to watch a rerun of I love lucy only to be caught right before the end of "Veta-Vita-Vegamin-Girl".

NickJ
02-18-2009, 02:04
http://www.benbest.com/lifeext/murder.html

lulz scroll down to the homicide/suicide graph

Looks like the euros just bump themselves off enough to make up for any homicide variance.... not to mention many of the top 10 (which does not include US) homicide rated countries are in the Americas.

Of those who resisted, 63% felt their resistance was useful and 7% said their resistance was harmful. It would be valuable to know the full statistics -- ie, of all those who were attacked, not just the survivors, but technical difficulties...

also quoted for the lulz

Any graphs from this century by any chance? Things have changed haha. :sly:

IthroZada
02-18-2009, 02:21
http://www.reason.com/news/show/28582.html

Found this just by looking for crime rates in England, didn't even add gun to the search or anything

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/798708/posts

So all us Americans who legally obtain guns after training and background checks are sure to go around and pop a cap in people's asses, or even sell our guns to criminals to use against us, right?