Lift the ban on Abortion?

[crimsonanger]

Make your choice, then live with it.

But remember, you are making a choice.

[Killuminati]

dude, all your threads just suck.

[Dirty l3um]

oooh nine!!!! oooh nine!!!

[iza]

Kill 'em. Kill 'em all!

[Dimgo]

Killing a baby who has just born is a crime right? So abortion is a crime, is that simple

[Killuminati]

Killing a baby who has just born is a crime right? So abortion is a crime, is that simple

yah, you're a genius.

[crimsonanger]

dude, all your threads just suck.

No, I just don't see the world in stark lines of black and white like you obviously do.

[shaystamang]

there is no ban.


I voted first trimester.

[Aacevedo]

Abortion is 1st degree murder, it's the premeditated killing of a human being, and should be treated accordingly.

[Dirty l3um]

when a child who is 8 ounces can survive outside the womb (incubated of course) then its safe to say that at least any aboirtion beyond that weight is killing. in addition the heart beats at 14 days and there are brainwaves at 4 weeks.

i dont think babies should be killed, if you cant have a child dont have le sex

[shaystamang]

so if a girl is raped by her father she should be forced under penalty of law to have the baby? (katie couric question)

[crimsonanger]

i dont think babies should be killed, if you cant have a child dont have le sex

Ok. Next woman who gets raped in the subway, I'll tell her she shouldn't have gotten raped. All her fault. Of course.

This isn't to comment on whether the abortion should be okay, but come on, use your brain, not everyone who has sex actually chooses to have sex.

[Rourke]

Abortions are banned?

[Killuminati]

This isn't to comment on whether the abortion should be okay, but come on, use your brain, not everyone who has sex actually chooses to have sex.

How do you know?

[crimsonanger]

How do you know?

rape1   /reɪp/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [reyp] Show IPA Pronunciation
noun, verb, raped, rap⋅ing.
–noun 1. the unlawful compelling of a woman through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.
2. any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person

[Amaryl]

if abortions are banned, move to a decent country.

[Z31Turbo]

Killing a baby who has just born is a crime right? So abortion is a crime, is that simple

What about killing a fetus? Which is nothing more than a bunch on non-sentient cells with no mental capacity or ability to feel pain or anything, but has the potential to be life, is that a crime as well? Because if so, every time I squeeze one off I am committing a crime, because that was a bunch of cells that had the potential to be human life. By god, we should make it illegal for women to have their period because that's basically an abortion right there! Women should have to get pregnant EVERY 9 months and not have a period, otherwise it's murder!

But honestly, I think we need to legalize post birth abortions at the discretion of the parents.

[iza]

Killing a baby who has just born is a crime right? So abortion is a crime, is that simple
Flawless logic right there. Debate: settled.

[pongo]

Trimasters? I always used a stair-master to abort my babies.

[crimsonanger]

Trimasters? I always used a stair-master to abort my babies.

Yes, I know, the correct spelling is Trimester. I'd edit the poll if I could.

Wait, can I?

Have to check into that.

[calypso016]

lol @ pongo.

Also, not entirely related but it reminds me of a funny story. (Please excuse my sadistic humour)

My cousin who gets pregnant by spitting too closely to her is having her #4 child while her and her husband (yeah he's still around, thank god) are both unemployed and living at her parents house.. well naturally I didn't know she was pregnant and my facebook status was "Can't Feed'em? Don't Breed'em" which I put up because it's funny and true.
Well anyway, family drama ensued but it was pretty hilarious none-the-less.

Sidebar - is nonetheless a full word, or is it none-the-less? I don't feel like looking it up.

[Prometheas]

plan b: pill
plan c: coat hanger I leave in my car for just such an occasion


seriously, I support abortions up to the age of 18.

[Z31Turbo]

plan b: pill
plan c: coat hanger I leave in my car for just such an occasion


seriously, I support abortions up to the age of 18.

QFT!!! Legalize post-birth abortions!

[Warhawk]

I'm sick of hearing pro-choicers tell others it's OK to kill a fucking baby but not ok to go kill the people that want to come here and kill people who were allowed to be born.

So fuck it, I give in...let's have a open free for all. Go get knocked but, and have an abortion 22 times until your insides have scar marks like a squid was trying to fight its way out.

Then when you're 50, miserable, and looking back thinking you should have had a family you can day dream about the babies you killed because, dammit, it is your body and you should have the choice!

[Warhawk]

QFT!!! Legalize post-birth abortions!

They are in many states, but the list of requirements is pretty small.

[Goty]

I think Abortion should be legal at any level, otherwise I'll have to keep digging them out with coat hangers myself. The struggling they put up tends to make them taste too stringy.

[Rourke]

I'm sick of hearing pro-choicers tell others it's OK to kill a fucking baby but not ok to go kill the people that want to come here and kill people who were allowed to be born.

So fuck it, I give in...let's have a open free for all. Go get knocked but, and have an abortion 22 times until your insides have scar marks like a squid was trying to fight its way out.

Then when you're 50, miserable, and looking back thinking you should have had a family you can day dream about the babies you killed because, dammit, it is your body and you should have the choice!

Libreals are stupid. That is a FACT jack.

I am pro-choice, only because it's the right way to be regarding a woman, and the fact we have WAY too many people here anyways.

But yeah..lots of Pro-Choice people are anti-war, lol. It's comedy at it's best.

[devereux]

I think the choice should be left up to the women of child bearing age. After all its not the men that have to carry,birth and care for the child. It should also be no concern of old women that cannot have children.

Leave it up to the women that involved and no one else.

[Keorymeshy]

So the women can choose to abort the kid and wait to a later time but if she wants to have it then the father has to pay child support{ assuming they are not married of course} I think if the father doesn’t want to have the kid and she chooses to anyways then he doesn’t have to pay child support.

[Warhawk]

I think the choice should be left up to the women of child bearing age. After all its not the men that have to carry,birth and care for the child. It should also be no concern of old women that cannot have children.

Leave it up to the women that involved and no one else.

Its funny how pro choice only applies to women but we are supposed to all have equal rights.

What if your GF is pregnant and you WANT mor than anything to have a child but she goes and kills it? Where was your right to pro-choice? Where is the equality that women liberation organizations scream about?

What if your GF is pregnant and you do NOT want a child becuse you have no means to support it? She has the baby and the state now forces you to support it. Where is your right to choice there?

So in a nutshells there is no pro-choice/pro-life black and white. There is a huge gray area. A victim of rape should absolutely have the choice. Someone who knows they are likely to pass on a genetic condition absolutely should have the choice. Someone who just cant "handle" having kids yet...I dunno, that's pretty fucking immoral and the ultimate is selfishness. Shold that be where the line is drawn...rape and genetic conditions? (Or of course a threat to the mother's life during the term)

EDIT: From what I've learned, at least here in PA ther eis no pre pregnancy agreement that 100% absolves you of financial responsibility. So if your GF is pregnant and she says "fine im having it and I wont every contact you ever again", you cant just draw up an agreement that is 100% "foolproof". If the pregnancy occured from intercourse, and not artificially insemination, you will be held financially responsible if she decides to come after you for child suport.

Where is the Pro-Choice there for the father?

[Rathynas]

So the women can choose to abort the kid and wait to a later time but if she wants to have it then the father has to pay child support{ assuming they are not married of course} I think if the father doesn’t want to have the kid and she chooses to anyways then he doesn’t have to pay child support.

Bad idea. He fucked her, so it's his fault too.

[Aacevedo]

And who asks the baby if he wants to live or not?

[Rourke]

And who asks the baby if he wants to live or not?

Blobs can't speak man.

[Vaalsha]

1st Trimester is fine - after that only in special circumstances.
In the womb a baby is not alive - it doesnt think and is not self aware.
If you are going to ban abortions ban masterbation because a sperm is more alive then an early fetus is.

[Keorymeshy]

Bad idea. He fucked her, so it's his fault too.

I'll agree with you on that if child birth was there goal in having sex. We live in an age where sex is used more for recreation then child bearing.

[Eldaran]

I almost aborted my son and didn't. Best decision I ever made was to keep him. The very first time he said "Daddy, I love you" was the greatest feeling of pure joy I have ever felt. Don't deprive yourself of the opportunity to be a parent. It's the greatest thing on Earth.

[Goty]

I almost aborted my son and didn't. Best decision I ever made was to keep him. The very first time he said "Daddy, I love you" was the greatest feeling of pure joy I have ever felt. Don't deprive yourself of the opportunity to be a parent. It's the greatest thing on Earth.

Wow, that's very touching.

Not for me, granted, but very touching. A kid's like an anchor that ties you down and ends your life being focused on yourself.

I like being untethered. :)

[Warhawk]

Bad idea. He fucked her, so it's his fault too.

Theninstantly at that time, the father gets 50% custoday and pays for 50% of the costs. Period. You hve no idea how ass-backwards the system is right now. I could go on for hours and hours, filling pages and pages, but I wont because I get stressed to the point I want to kill someone at hockey practices in the morning.

[Eldaran]

Wow, that's very touching.

Not for me, granted, but very touching. A kid's like an anchor that ties you down and ends your life being focused on yourself.

I like being untethered. :)


It's not easy certainly, but it is the most rewarding thing you can get out of life. I'm a single father, age 26. I still get to do fun things, but have to think about another life before mine. Imagine that! Selfishness will bring you nothing but pain in the end. Do you have children or are you just too immature to understand that there is more to life than parties?

[Drock]

I think the only way abortion should be legal is if its done after the baby is born. And even then you can only do it by repeatedly throwing the baby against the wall until its head resembles the jar of strawberry jam I dropped on the floor this morning.



but seriously, who cares, hundreds of ppl starve, die, and are murdered every day, we dont see you out there crying for them. Its really not a big deal. You dont even know what the hell is going on when you are that young, I would have had no problem if my parent had aborted me. You know why? Because I wouldn't even know. Hell they could have done it when I was 5, I still wouldnt know. Abortion isnt a big deal, stop acting like you care so much about babies you will never meet or see.

[biggunsar]

The choice is this. if you are american. And you do not allow that person to make the choice of abortion. You are not free. Who teh fuck is anyone, to tell someone that they can't abort something that isnt' a baby yet.

Although I think abortion should be illegal as soon as your are pregnant for 4 months. ON THE DAY. So you got exactly 120 days to decide.

You got 3 months to think about it. If you can't make up your mind then, too farking bad.

[Aacevedo]

IMO a human being is formed at conception.
Then abortion , in any circunstance is 1st degree murder. For me even the smallest embryo has equal rights to you, me and everyother human in the planet. So if you abort and get caught doing it then go to court , get sentenced and enjoy your 20 years in prison.

[Rourke]

Wow, that's very touching.

Not for me, granted, but very touching. A kid's like an anchor that ties you down and ends your life being focused on yourself.

I like being untethered. :)

/agreed. Babies are great. But after 5, it's no good. I don't need that shit. I have a cat. Cheaper, and they cry less, and won't crash my car drunk driving.

[bluthorn]

so if a girl is raped by her father she should be forced under penalty of law to have the baby? (katie couric question)

To reverse the question...the baby should be slain because a woman was raped? I understand that giving birth is not exactly a picnic, but that seems a little hard on the other innocent party in a rape case...

[Goty]

It's not easy certainly, but it is the most rewarding thing you can get out of life. I'm a single father, age 26. I still get to do fun things, but have to think about another life before mine. Imagine that! Selfishness will bring you nothing but pain in the end. Do you have children or are you just too immature to understand that there is more to life than parties?

I have no children and don't intend to have them.

As far as your philosophy there, I have to disagree.

You have to think of another life before your own - and that's great for you. I'd rather, given the choice, avoid having that on my life regardless of the benefits you see there for yourself. I have far too many desires and goals I cannot have with a little squirt to think of first.

Humorously enough, I don't consider partying to be one of those things I look for. I spend most of my time working. I partied plenty when I was in college, but now, I don't have the energy for it. Don't care to stay up all night and feel like shit in the morning. Rarely drink.

However, A wife and kids is a shift in focus into a lifestyle that simply doesn't suit my tastes in any real way; though if it were to happen on accident I'd have no choice but to accept the responsibilities and love my offspring as if it were my own kid. . . err, so to speak.

[Rourke]

To reverse the question...the baby should be slain because a woman was raped? I understand that giving birth is not exactly a picnic, but that seems a little hard on the other innocent party in a rape case...

Very unfair to put that on a rape victim. Pretty much, just fucked. World is WAY overpopulated as is. We can do without unwanted babies being born.

[bluthorn]

Very unfair to put that on a rape victim. Pretty much, just fucked. World is WAY overpopulated as is. We can do without unwanted babies being born.

Unfair? You are ending a child's life before they have a chance to even breathe! A rape is a horrible thing, I think most of us are in agreement there, but why then should the death of a child be added to such a thing?

[Goty]

Unfair? You are ending a child's life before they have a chance to even breathe! A rape is a horrible thing, I think most of us are in agreement there, but why then should the death of a child be added to such a thing?

Better than the child's most likely life of drug addiction, abuse, and everything else that'd make it wish it'd never been born.

"If only I'd been aborted! Why did I have to be born," he'll exclaim, beating his hands to his chest and pulling his hair out while strung out on needles and coke.

[bluthorn]

Better than the child's most likely life of drug addiction, abuse, and everything else that'd make it wish it'd never been born.

"If only I'd been aborted! Why did I have to be born," he'll exclaim, beating his hands to his chest and pulling his hair out while strung out on needles and coke.

Or he could grow up to...whatever. Live a normal life, or do something extraordinary. My crystal ball doesn't predict the future any better than yours does, I imagine.

[Aacevedo]

Better than the child's most likely life of drug addiction, abuse, and everything else that'd make it wish it'd never been born.

"If only I'd been aborted! Why did I have to be born," he'll exclaim, beating his hands to his chest and pulling his hair out while strung out on needles and coke.

Please show irrefutable evidence of this and I mean 100% of cases , because if only 1% have live "normal" lives , you have no right to KILL them

[Drock]

Ill say again what I already said......Why do you people care so much? Hundreds of innocent people die every day, they starve, are murdered, are raped. You dont give a shit about any of them, you arent on here crying about them. So why do you act like you care so much about a baby you will never meet, or see. You're being stupid.

[Rourke]

Or he could grow up to...whatever. Live a normal life, or do something extraordinary. My crystal ball doesn't predict the future any better than yours does, I imagine.

Thankfully, in America...you don't get the right to tell OTHER PEOPLE how to live THIER lives or when to give birth.

[Aacevedo]

Wrong because people dies everyday , we are not making laws lifting the ban on murder rape , etc..

[Drock]

Wrong because people dies everyday , we are not making laws lifting the ban on murder rape , etc..

you dont get my point. My point is that this kind of thing happens every day. Innocent people are killed every day. None of which you could give a fuck about. So why do you care so much about a few dead babies you will never meet or see?

[Goty]

Or he could grow up to...whatever. Live a normal life, or do something extraordinary. My crystal ball doesn't predict the future any better than yours does, I imagine.

He has - or would have had the same chance at doing something extraordinarily terrible. Hell, he might have had the chance to be absolutely mediocre, like the rest of us.

However, judging from the possibilities, assuming he is adopted, he is likely to live a pretty shitty life. Tends to happen with unwanted children.

We have enough trouble as it is with homelessness, addiction, abuse, hunger, crime - and so much of this stems from those struggling simply to get by from a young age.

A rape victim will likely not want have anything to do with her child borne from such an assault, and so by default, the child will be unwanted. That is, unless she decides against that. This, however, would have been her choice.

Anyways, I was hoping it'd be obvious that my "beating his chest" comment was more hyperbolic than anything. I'm not really interested in falling into one of this stupid Abortion piss fests you people seem to love so much. :)

[MasterBeta]

First trimester only.

Once the baby has gone past the stage of just being a husk of cells, and developed into a breathing, thinking organism, thats it. Past the first trimester it's unethical.

[Zurk]

Libreals are stupid. That is a FACT jack.

I am pro-choice, only because it's the right way to be regarding a woman, and the fact we have WAY too many people here anyways.

But yeah..lots of Pro-Choice people are anti-war, lol. It's comedy at it's best.

And lots of pro-lifers are pro-war. Makes sense, eh?

[bluthorn]

Thankfully, in America...you don't get the right to tell OTHER PEOPLE how to live THIER lives or when to give birth.

Where did I say they must live their lives this way or whatever? I merely said you can't kill a baby. Last I checked, that is premeditated murder and is punishable by life imprisonment or death.

[Rourke]

Where did I say they must live their lives this way or whatever? I merely said you can't kill a baby. Last I checked, that is premeditated murder and is punishable by life imprisonment or death.

Well...you sure as fuck can here. Roe vs Wade. Women can do what they want. Imagine that?

And lots of pro-lifers are pro-war. Makes sense, eh?

nope.

[bluthorn]

Well...you sure as fuck can here. Roe vs Wade. Women can do what they want. Imagine that?

Women's rights and all that, correct? If I may ask the same question asked by an abortion survivor (the abortion failed and then she was born before they could finish the job), "where are my women's rights?"

[calypso016]

http://jezebel.com/379010/south-park-rich-white-girls-get-ahead-in-life-because-they-get-abortions-when-theyre-young

[Rourke]

Women's rights and all that, correct? If I may ask the same question asked by an abortion survivor (the abortion failed and then she was born before they could finish the job), "where are my women's rights?"

I don't care. I really don't. I think almost 7 BILLION people is more than enough on this planet anyways. I say we need to sterilize everyone for 50 years. I honestly believe that.

[Rathynas]

Unfair? You are ending a child's life before they have a chance to even breathe! A rape is a horrible thing, I think most of us are in agreement there, but why then should the death of a child be added to such a thing?

Because usually a rape victim can't deal with a child? First of all, you're stressed and scared. Second, you're probably in no position to be taking care of a child. Third, its life is probably going to suck. Fourth, fetuses aren't sentient, so why care. Making (1st trimester) abortion illegal is like saying I can't have my period because I'm aborting potential human beings into a toilet.

[1998altima]

When this debate comes up I like to ask this question.

What its the goal of sexual intercourse? Is it to create a baby or is it to have fun?

[bluthorn]

Because usually a rape victim can't deal with a child? First of all, you're stressed and scared. Second, you're probably in no position to be taking care of a child. Third, its life is probably going to suck. Fourth, fetuses aren't sentient, so why care. Making (1st trimester) abortion illegal is like saying I can't have my period because I'm aborting potential human beings into a toilet.

"potential human being" and "fetus that will become a human being" is a big difference. Before sperm and egg meet you do not have life beyond the actual egg itself, which is designed to die in the event it cannot find a sperm cell. Once the zygote becomes a fetus, of course, you have a lot more than "potential life" as I have already stated.

Also, many great men and women have come from homes that were poor and had crappy parents but who pushed on anyway and overcame those obstacles. Usually they had help, true, but not from their parents.

As for the fourth, "fetuses aren't sentient, so why care?", I care because this is a child (whether sentient or not) and I refuse to allow priceless human life to be extinguished for someone's personal convenience.

I'm not some lunatic who would blow up an abortion clinic or something, just to clarify that statement.

[Rathynas]

When this debate comes up I like to ask this question.

What its the goal of sexual intercourse? Is it to create a baby or is it to have fun?

Not everyone does it to have fun. It can be very unfun, actually. But, if some teenage slut goes around fucking guys for fun, sure she can have an abortion imo, but I think there should be dire consequences for the girl's dumbassery.

[Caius]

I think it's good in the first trimester, because that thing in your womb is not a person yet. It's only murder when it starts kicking and wants to bust the fuck out of you and ruin your plants and smash all the plates in the house like God intended. Furthermore, I think a chick has an obligation to tell the potential father and say, "do you want to be in his life y/n" and if he chooses the "n" then he should not have to pay child support or even contact her ever again.

Now, if it was some Mexican chick, I would definitely say "no" but if she was blond and blue eyed I'd offer to take it off her hands and begin raising a family of Nordic supermen.

[Rathynas]

Also, many great men and women have come from homes that were poor and had crappy parents but who pushed on anyway and overcame those obstacles. Usually they had help, true, but not from their parents.

Many, not all. Most poor kids I know with crappy parents want to kill themselves. I think it's pathetic, but naturally a majority of people who grow up in environments like that aren't going to strive to be great one day.

As for the fourth, "fetuses aren't sentient, so why care?", I care because this is a child (whether sentient or not) and I refuse to allow priceless human life to be extinguished for someone's personal convenience.

Someone's personal convenience? It's not just that. It's several people's convenience, even the nonexistent child's. I'm guessing you grew up in a well-to-do, middle class, Christian family, right?

[burrz]

i hate this topic.

lets say you are a woman raped by a man with AIDS, now you have contracted the HIV virus as well as your unborn child who was conceived by a rapist.

Should you be forced to have that baby born and make him suffer through his whole life with HIV. What is more humane.

[Rourke]

i hate this topic.

lets say you are a woman raped by a man with AIDS, now you have contracted the HIV virus as well as your unborn child who was conceived by a rapist.

Should you be forced to have that baby born and make him suffer through his whole life with HIV. What is more humane.

Yes...have the baby in Africa and it will be normal.

[bluthorn]

Many, not all. Most poor kids I know with crappy parents want to kill themselves. I think it's pathetic, but naturally a majority of people who grow up in environments like that aren't going to strive to be great one day.



Someone's personal convenience? It's not just that. It's several people's convenience, even the nonexistent child's. I'm guessing you grew up in a well-to-do, middle class, Christian family, right?

Indeed I did.

Regardless, I do not understand the doublethink logic that a mother is to make a choice that she thinks is best (whether for her or the baby is a moral tossup and varies woman to woman) and yet that child is denied the right to have a chance to decide their own fate.

[Rourke]

Indeed I did.

Regardless, I do not understand the doublethink logic that a mother is to make a choice that she thinks is best (whether for her or the baby is a moral tossup and varies woman to woman) and yet that child is denied the right to have a chance to decide their own fate.

I think people should have to pass a test to even HAVE a kid. There should be some kind of restrictions for bearing a child. I can barely buy a gun, but some retard 15 yr old can make a life??

[1998altima]

I think people should have to pass a test to even HAVE a kid. There should be some kind of restrictions for bearing a child. I can barely buy a gun, but some retard 15 yr old can make a life??

PREACH BROTHER PREACH!

Seriously, it is too easy to make a life. So why would it be harder to take it.

[Rathynas]

Indeed I did.

Regardless, I do not understand the doublethink logic that a mother is to make a choice that she thinks is best (whether for her or the baby is a moral tossup and varies woman to woman) and yet that child is denied the right to have a chance to decide their own fate.

It's a risk you have to take. If I was thrown into some abusive crap family, I'd rather die before birth than have to live through it. Actually, probably not, but I do know that pretty much everyone else (who isn't ignorant and doesn't think the world's one big happy party) would rather die.

If I were you, I wouldn't be trying to argue about this. You obviously have no grasp of what abortion or anything related to abortion is like.

[bluthorn]

It's a risk you have to take. If I was thrown into some abusive crap family, I'd rather die before birth than have to live through it. Actually, probably not, but I do know that pretty much everyone else (who isn't ignorant and doesn't think the world's one big happy party) would rather die.

If I were you, I wouldn't be trying to argue about this. You obviously have no grasp of what abortion or anything related to abortion is like.

I appreciate your concern, but I'm not doing this to look good in front of people :).

[vaier]

Poll lacks obligatory bewbz option.
Failure.

[Rathynas]

I appreciate your concern, but I'm not doing this to look good in front of people :).

That explains why you sound like a retard. :P

Lol, you were asking for it.

[bluthorn]

That explains why you sound like a retard. :P

Lol, you were asking for it.

Haha, I sound like a retard, do I? Why may I ask? Because I disagree with people who advocate "rights? Because I don't agree with you? Because I haven't aborted/considered aborting a child of my own and thus cannot comprehend such things?

[Rathynas]

Haha, I sound like a retard, do I? Why may I ask? Because I disagree with people who advocate "rights? Because I don't agree with you? Because I haven't aborted/considered aborting a child of my own and thus cannot comprehend such things?

I was just joking around.

But you do sound a little ignorant, in my opinion. Probably because you haven't really been around people a lot less fortunate than you. You can stick to your views, but they're wrong... in my opinion.

[ChillyUK]

if some dumb ass teenager gets pregnant.. id prefer it if they had an abortion than ends up dragging the kid up...

the last thing we need is more chavs


there should be a big fine to pay if you keep getting pregnant and wanting abortions though.

maybe after 2nd time or something.

[devereux]

So the women can choose to abort the kid and wait to a later time but if she wants to have it then the father has to pay child support{ assuming they are not married of course} I think if the father doesn’t want to have the kid and she chooses to anyways then he doesn’t have to pay child support.

Yes, if she decided to keep it without the concent of the father she should pay for the babies up-bringing.if he wants no contact.

The woman has to carry the baby, so even if the father wants it too bad, he is not the one forced to carry and birth it,so too bad for him.Next time he will make more informed and intelligent choices about who he has sex with or he will wrap it.

I say if the woman wants to keep the baby fine she will pay for it. If the baby is a by product of rape who on earth would want that reminder that would be cruel and insensitive.

Lastly who would want to find out the are the product of a rape, that would fuck you up so badly, I am sure you would need mental health help.

Thats where I stand and nothing and no one is going to change my mind. I have seen irl what happens to unwanted children from my previous job.

[ChillyUK]

obviously if the pregnancy is too far along then it shouldnt be allowed.

but the first 4 months or so .. its a fetus.. not a baby.. its not thinking "dont kill me im just a baby" its not thinking anything.

[Killuminati]

if some dumb ass teenager gets pregnant.. id prefer it if they had an abortion than ends up dragging the kid up...

the last thing we need is more chavs


there should be a big fine to pay if you keep getting pregnant and wanting abortions though.

maybe after 2nd time or something.

Lol, I like you.

[Agge]

dude, all your threads just suck.

Wonder why he got suspended.

[bluthorn]

I was just joking around.

But you do sound a little ignorant, in my opinion. Probably because you haven't really been around people a lot less fortunate than you. You can stick to your views, but they're wrong... in my opinion.

Sorry :).

Actually, I have. I've wandered around Atlanta, Georgia at night carrying Gospel tracts for the homeless who like to read them. Believe me, there is some scary, saddening stuff you see wandering around a large city in the night.

[carpediem320]

Kill 'em. Kill 'em all!

Gawd some of you kids are lost...please tell me what would be like if you were on the recieving end...

America is in dire straights culturally..immagration is desperate to fill the baby-boomer gap in the west for labour and economic growth...one reason is because we keep killing our next generation..(sigh)
India has more honor roll students than America has kids!

Please people...stop thinking about only you and your opinion..fak plan for another day, those babes could possibly be the surgeon that saves your life from cancer..but then...we only live today don't we..cause we're soo cool..and trendy...and knowledgable..(sarcasm there)

(Sigh) this is also a video game forum..please discuss this over coffee with the intent to do something constructive...

Enjoy your day. :cool:

[devereux]

if some dumb ass teenager gets pregnant.. id prefer it if they had an abortion than ends up dragging the kid up...

the last thing we need is more chavs


there should be a big fine to pay if you keep getting pregnant and wanting abortions though.

maybe after 2nd time or something.

Now there is a brilliant idea. I really like the idea of fining girls who keep getting pregant and are not married with no way to support the kids. or girls that keep having a abortion. I mean for christs sake if you mess up one time and get pregant thats one thing but abortion should not be a means of birth control either. Girls that keep giving birth to kids with no means to take care of them should be fined and girls having more than one abortion go on thats list too. I like the way this chap thinks:)

and too bad if you all do not like what I say..I say Kiss my ass :)

[carpediem320]

Yes, if she decided to keep it without the concent of the father she should pay for the babies up-bringing.if he wants no contact.

The woman has to carry the baby, so even if the father wants it too bad, he is not the one forced to carry and birth it,so too bad for him.Next time he will make more informed and intelligent choices about who he has sex with or he will wrap it.

I say if the woman wants to keep the baby fine she will pay for it. If the baby is a by product of rape who on earth would want that reminder that would be cruel and insensitive.

Lastly who would want to find out the are the product of a rape, that would fuck you up so badly, I am sure you would need mental health help.

Thats where I stand and nothing and no one is going to change my mind. I have seen irl what happens to unwanted children from my previous job.

So says the one who wants to do bad things...with you...

[Rourke]

Gawd some of you kids are lost...please tell me what would be like if you were on the recieving end...

America is in dire straights culturally..immagration is desperate to fill the baby-boomer gap in the west for labour and economic growth...one reason is because we keep killing our next generation..(sigh)
India has more honor roll students than America has kids!

Please people...stop thinking about only you and your opinion..fak plan for another day, those babes could possibly be the surgeon that saves your life from cancer..but then...we only live today don't we..cause we're soo cool..and trendy...and knowledgable..(sarcasm there)

(Sigh) this is also a video game forum..please discuss this over coffee with the intent to do something constructive...

Enjoy your day. :cool:


FUCKING INDIA??? Oh...there's a good example of a nice country, lol. India is so overcrowed it borders on insane. No.....it is insane. Thx for taking all America's jobs for 3 cents an hour too btw.

Oh, and I am drinking Johny Walker Black...not coffee, so I can booze rage later.

[devereux]

Sorry :).

Actually, I have. I've wandered around Atlanta, Georgia at night carrying Gospel tracts for the homeless who like to read them. Believe me, there is some scary, saddening stuff you see wandering around a large city in the night.

Instead of wandering around why not take home some of those unwanted kids, stay busy with helping those kids that have been kicked out of their homes ,because they are unwanted.

You will be better able to help others than preaching here on this forums. Put all of that energy to good use. I am sure you have a home big enough to Really help out these unwanted kids. So practice what you preach.:D

[carpediem320]

FUCKING INDIA??? Oh...there's a good example of a nice country, lol. India is so overcrowed it borders on insane. No.....it is insane. Thx for taking all America's jobs for 3 cents an hour too btw.

Oh, and I am drinking Johny Walker Black...not coffee, so I can booze rage later.

Lol..it was a statement of statistic..in light of the rates of killing off unwanted children..we keep doing stuff like this, we will ahve to admit that we killed the next crop...thats all I am emphasizing..I am not advocating one society over another..its all a matter of time before mistakes catch up is all.:(

[Rourke]

Lol..it was a statement of statistic..in light of the rates of killing off unwanted children..we keep doing stuff like this, we will ahve to admit that we killed the next crop...thats all I am emphasizing..I am not advocating one society over another..its all a matter of time before mistakes catch up is all.:(

Isn't the world population growing exponetially? How can it even be a concern?

[devereux]

So says the one who wants to do bad things...with you...

For your information. Bud, I am happen to be in a very healthy monogamous relationship, and I use birth control. I live in a very nice home and make great money. I am not a stupid little fool out to get knocked up.and burden the system.

Some girls are responsible and do not burden tax-payers because they are tax payers too.

All you people who want to abolish pro-choice should be made to take in 5 or 6 unwanted kids and raise them as your own. instead of preaching here.

Just so you know its from a song Called Bad things.by jace Everett, its about killing people..lol you make me laugh

[calypso016]

and what's the big deal if we the population stops growing at such a fast rate? Less doctors, blah blah. Less violent people, less criminals, less stupidity?

I'm all about abortions if it means it'll cut down on stupidity.

[entrailsgalore]

Abortion is 1st degree murder, it's the premeditated killing of a human being, and should be treated accordingly. Well at what stage of pregnancy does a single cell become a human life form? I guess that is the $64,000.00 question. If killing a human cell is wrong, then anytime you cut your hair, take a shower, get a cut would be wrong as well. Women ovulate eggs once a month does that count as murder? I am against murder just like everyone, but people have a skewed perception of what murder actually is.

[someneou]

Ok. Next woman who gets raped in the subway, I'll tell her she shouldn't have gotten raped. All her fault. Of course.

This isn't to comment on whether the abortion should be okay, but come on, use your brain, not everyone who has sex actually chooses to have sex.

so you kill another human being to not hurt the feeling of another???

your a fucking moron

[calypso016]

so you kill another human being to not hurt the feeling of another???

your a fucking moron

Hey, fucking moron. I think in the quote that YOU quoted, it specifically answered their feelings on that issue and your question.

Learn how to keep up in a fucking debate.

[ArnKS]

People who replied "Anytime" are SICK.

A human foetus is viable much sooner than nine month!

[Sparhawk13]

What about killing a fetus? Which is nothing more than a bunch on non-sentient cells with no mental capacity or ability to feel pain or anything, but has the potential to be life, is that a crime as well?

What denotes a fetus is the development of the central nervous system, and so a fetus is far beyond a "bunch of non-sentient cells". The argument that a non-sentient being isn't yet a life but rather only a potential to become life is a rational one, though. Indeed, if we were to argue that laws should be made based on potentials, then every man, woman, and child on the face of this planet should be locked up; don't we all have the potential to murder someone, even the most gentle and good-natured of us? And similarly, doesn't every developing human have the potential to murder, rape, and torture? Pro-life folks tend to throw around the term "potential" in the sense that a developing body has the potential to a good life that won't harm others, but they fail to recognize the potential for bad. We shouldn't allow potential to influence our decisions over any human life, let alone a body that has no capacity yet for making decisions itself.
I say "body" instead of "person" because a body that has no sentience is not a person, because what makes a person is rationality.
"the life of the embryo or fetus is not the bodily life of the person to be, but the life of the body of the person to be. That is to say, the life of the embryo from which I grew was not a stage of my life, but a stage in the life of my body." (Coughlan)

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Killing a baby who has just born is a crime right? So abortion is a crime, is that simple

There are differences between a newborn baby and one still in the womb, especially in the early stages of development. One huge difference, and a popular argument of pro-choice, is sentience and rationality. Prior to the development of the central nervous system, a fetus is unaware. (Flower, p443)
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but seriously, who cares, hundreds of ppl starve, die, and are murdered every day, we dont see you out there crying for them. Its really not a big deal.

We all agree that those things are crappy, but there's little we can do about them. Abortion is a more widely debated topic because we are so divided about it, and also because it's much easier to pass a law regarding abortion than it is to, say, stop a war in Africa.
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IMO a human being is formed at conception.

"It is not until about 60 hours after egg and sperm first made contact that any new genetic information is expressed. . ."(Flower, p439)
Thus, the 'moment' of conception is arguable, since there is not yet any indication of a new unique individual at fertilization. And furthermore, until becoming an embryo, it isn't yet a unique individual, because it still has the potential of splitting to become twins. So following this point, do you agree that it's O.K. to abort before 60 hours have passed?
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Unfair? You are ending a child's life before they have a chance to even breathe! A rape is a horrible thing, I think most of us are in agreement there, but why then should the death of a child be added to such a thing?

child
–noun, plural chil⋅dren.
1. a person between birth and full growth.
2. a son or daughter.
3. a baby or infant.
4. a human fetus.

By this definition (dictionary.com), abortion does not necessarily end the life of a child, since it's not until around week 6 that the embryo is said to transition into being a fetus. (Flower, p443)
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Where did I say they must live their lives this way or whatever? I merely said you can't kill a baby. Last I checked, that is premeditated murder and is punishable by life imprisonment or death.

Are we discussion killing babies, or are we discussing abortion? As noted above, abortion doesn't necessarily end the life of a child or baby, so long as it's done before week 6, roughly. It would be one thing to argue against abortion after week X, but I get the impression that you're against abortion of any kind.
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On a less serious note:

Libreals are stupid.

Like how people that misspell liberals while calling them stupid are idiots? If I were to call someone stupid, I'd be damn sure not to look stupid myself.
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The question of abortion is a question of the nature of human development. The difficulty of the debate is that there is no clear point in the development of a human body at which the body becomes a person. Is it a person when it becomes a unique individual, or when the first electrical activity is detected, or is it awareness and rationality that marks a person? It could even be said that there is no point at which personhood can be placed, but it's instead a continuum; the emergence of a person is gradual over nine months, and the farther along it gets, the more of a person it is.

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References:

Dictionary.com - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/child

Michael Flower, Ph.D. - Abortion, Medicine, and the Law. p437-451. (1992)

M Coughlan - The Vatican, the Law and the Human Embryo. p110 (1990)

[barilac]

I think the choice should be left up to the women of child bearing age. After all its not the men that have to carry,birth and care for the child. It should also be no concern of old women that cannot have children.

Leave it up to the women that involved and no one else.

oh you mean, like in beautiful Norway? :-)

[Rathynas]

Blabla blah blabla blah blah.

That was a well-written post.

I want to mate with you.

[Baralis]

The biggest issue for me is that for most (except rape cases) its someone taking the easy way out of irresponsibility at anothers expense. If that other is a yet sentient being or not is irrelevant. But then again we seem to be favoring a society that has forgotten the meaning of responsibility.

[Haruhi]

All of you who think abortion is "All Good" please visit this link (http://www.prolifetraining.com/Abortion-Video.htm), have a look around and see if you still think it's ok. :bang:

[Desperado[1G]]

How could sucking out a premature child with a vacuum hose be wrong?

[Baralis]

;2609524']How could sucking out a premature child with a vacuum hose be wrong?

:ohno: Does that also count towards masterbation?

*hides vacuum*

[entrailsgalore]

All of you who think abortion is "All Good" please visit this link (http://www.prolifetraining.com/Abortion-Video.htm), have a look around and see if you still think it's ok. :bang: You should see my used condom collection, it is a graveyard.

[Sparhawk13]

The biggest issue for me is that for most (except rape cases) its someone taking the easy way out of irresponsibility at anothers expense. If that other is a yet sentient being or not is irrelevant. But then again we seem to be favoring a society that has forgotten the meaning of responsibility.

But when talking of "expense" before sentience, the argument is moved back into the realm of potential. It could be that that being will come to hate living, and that you've done it no favor. It could also be that they will enjoy life thoroughly, but there's no way of knowing that. In giving it a chance at a good life, you're also giving it a chance at a bad one.
I agree that in many cases, irresponsibility is what creates the problem in the first place, but even those who are responsible about sex by employing contraceptives can be put into the situation of an unwanted pregnancy. And asking people not to have sex at all if they aren't ready to be a parent is asking too much of them, I would say.

[Baralis]

I agree that in many cases, irresponsibility is what creates the problem in the first place, but even those who are responsible about sex by employing contraceptives can be put into the situation of an unwanted pregnancy. And asking people not to have sex at all if they aren't ready to be a parent is asking too much of them, I would say.

This is the attitude I am meaning. A person should understand the risks involved and try thier best to prevent unwanted pregnancies. They should also take on the responsabilities if that prevention fails.

Sounds to me like they expect thier cake and to eat it to.

Its no different then driving an automobile. You follow the laws to avoid accidents but even the most careful can have one. At this point a responsible person does not flea the scene to avoid repercussions.

[Sparhawk13]

Its no different then driving an automobile. You follow the laws to avoid accidents but even the most careful can have one. At this point a responsible person does not flea the scene to avoid repercussions.

No, you're right, a responsible person would stay and try their best to help anyone else caught in the accident. But in speaking of abortion, there's no way to know if you're helping or harming the unborn life. Whether or not forcing a woman to have a child is helping or harming her is much more evident.

[Rathynas]

All of you who think abortion is "All Good" please visit this link (http://www.prolifetraining.com/Abortion-Video.htm), have a look around and see if you still think it's ok. :bang:

Um, that's naturally how it should look. Is that supposed to make us feel sad or something?

[Mons]

Its just about the Interpretation of "life"

Whats the difference between a fetus and a tree?
Whats the difference between a fetus and an animal?

Then you end up with something like:

life->thinking->What is thinking?+How do you know someone can think when he can't tell you?+When does a baby start thinking?-> lots and lots more discussable things.

[Spankytwo]

YOU HAVE TO BE FUCKING ME! NOW I HAVE TO WAIT A FEW WEEKS TILL I CAN POST AN ABORTION THREAD! FUCK! AND I HAD THIS SCHEDULED FOR NEXT SATURDAY TOO!





Fucking assholes.

[entrailsgalore]

Its just about the Interpretation of "life"

Whats the difference between a fetus and a tree?
Whats the difference between a fetus and an animal?

Then you end up with something like:

life->thinking->What is thinking?+How do you know someone can think when he can't tell you?+When does a baby start thinking?-> lots and lots more discussable things.
Precisely

[Haruhi]

Um, that's naturally how it should look. Is that supposed to make us feel sad or something?

You're damn right it's supposed to. Anybody who has an abortion should receive the death penalty.

If you don't want the child, fine. Put it up for adoption. Don't fracking murder it you sickos.

[Rourke]

You're damn right it's supposed to. Anybody who has an abortion should receive the death penalty.

If you don't want the child, fine. Put it up for adoption. Don't fracking murder it you sickos.

Shut up. Seriously. You don't get to tell others what to do. I bet your the type who blows up abortion clinics to stop people from "killing".

[Mons]

You're damn right it's supposed to. Anybody who has an abortion should receive the death penalty.

If you don't want the child, fine. Put it up for adoption. Don't fracking murder it you sickos.

Pls tell me this is a troll.

[C++ Student]

Pls tell me this is a troll.

Its a troll, his name starts with an H.

[Haruhi]

Its a troll, his name starts with an H.

Does not!

[xWebb]

ABORTION is WRONG.
Kill a baby after its born and tell me its okay.
Look up the facts and you'll see its that same baby unborn people kill all the time.

[C++ Student]

ABORTION is WRONG.
Kill a baby after its born and tell me its okay.
Look up the facts and you'll see its that same baby unborn people kill all the time.

Both an unborn baby and a squirrel could potentially become a human, with all the advances we have in sciences happening now. What stops people from killing squirrels?

[Chaliceress]

abortion is wrong.
Kill a baby after its born and tell me its okay.
Look up the facts and you'll see its that same baby unborn people kill all the time.

whats the fuck" what do you mean its the: Same baby unborn ppl keep killing all the time"

are you nutz?

How in the world are "unborn people killing ,The same baby over and over again" rofl

[Choroneye]

It is one of the worse crimes of modern society. All abortionists and those who have had abortions should be imprisoned.

[Marrik]

What about killing a fetus? Which is nothing more than a bunch on non-sentient cells with no mental capacity or ability to feel pain or anything, but has the potential to be life, is that a crime as well? Because if so, every time I squeeze one off I am committing a crime, because that was a bunch of cells that had the potential to be human life. By god, we should make it illegal for women to have their period because that's basically an abortion right there! Women should have to get pregnant EVERY 9 months and not have a period, otherwise it's murder!

But honestly, I think we need to legalize post birth abortions at the discretion of the parents.

theres a difference between sucking a little ball of cells out with a hose, and stabbing a baby in the neck with scissors and sucking its brain out (thats how post birth abortion works)

[C++ Student]

How can you abort something that already happened? Post birth abortions ftl

[Sparhawk13]

ABORTION is WRONG.
Kill a baby after its born and tell me its okay.
Look up the facts and you'll see its that same baby unborn people kill all the time.

If you're using facts you've looked up to make an argument, please do us a favor and tell us where you got these facts from; it falls to you to tell us where you've found them, not to us to go dig around for your "facts." And what facts are you talking about? You don't even mention them.
This goes for all wishing to join in on the intellectual discussion of abortion.

[Typhoo]

Ok, going to throw this one out there...who, alive today, in your considered opinions would be perfect candidates for Post Birth Abortions?

G W Bush, Donald Rumsfeld?

etc......

[Sparhawk13]

Ok, going to throw this one out there...who, alive today, in your considered opinions would be perfect candidates for Post Birth Abortions?

G W Bush, Donald Rumsfeld?

etc......

Oprah, Regis Philbin, and Macaulay Culkin.

[Rourke]

Oprah, Regis Philbin, and Macaulay Culkin.

THIS GUY.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ab6LWXeNDA

[Spankytwo]

theres a difference between sucking a little ball of cells out with a hose, and stabbing a baby in the neck with scissors and sucking its brain out (thats how post birth abortion works)

I fap to that shit, man, abortions are yummy in my tummy

[lilyeti]

What The Fuck is this thread about??? Last time I checked, abortion (http://forums.darkfallonline.com/member.php?u=164232)was unbanned.

[Sparhawk13]

Come on, now. Let's get some good debating in. I can't very well argue with myself, here.

[Death's Chill]

Well, towards the end of the pregnancy, I don't really think it's a good idea. By then, it's almost ready to come out and function properly, and it's clearly alive. It just doesn't feel right.

But in the first month to the 5 month of pregnancy it seems perfectly fine to me. Better save the life of the mother who's already born and fully grown (in most cases) than that of an unborn fetus. Besides, the kid, if forced to be born, would have a fucking horrible life. The kid shouldn't have to pay for the ignorance (or misfortune) of the parents.

[Ignotis]

I love the conservatives, it's endlessly amusing how you can claim to be pro-war and pro-life. Let's ignore the 600,000+ civilian casualties at the hand of our government in Iraq, but damn it somebody is getting an abortion! Oh and the other big issue at hand, despite the economy failing and being on the brink of a nuclear holocaust is the fact that gays WANT TO MARRY! Oh god the horror!

[Harsk]

Abortions are banned?

Not here.

[Tribaja]

I propose that we start aborting with shotguns.

Sooner or later, there won't be anything to abort !

[Chemichonga]

Better off dieing as an unconscious fetus than entering this world.

[Harsk]

Better off dieing as an unconscious fetus than entering this world.

What he is trying to say is adopt!

[Bamboopanda]

Abortion is 1st degree murder, it's the premeditated killing of a human being, and should be treated accordingly.

Humans are not that important. Sad, but its needed sometimes. And yes, selfish reasons are legitimate reasons. Otherwise I get to go kill you any time you lie, cheat or steal.

[bluthorn]

Humans are not that important. Sad, but its needed sometimes. And yes, selfish reasons are legitimate reasons. Otherwise I get to go kill you any time you lie, cheat or steal.

By the same token, I also am free to kill you so as to enrich myself. After all, if one can murder for selfish reasons legally, why not do it to get some money or a nice car?

[Death's Chill]

By the same token, I also am free to kill you so as to enrich myself. After all, if one can murder for selfish reasons legally, why not do it to get some money or a nice car?

Killing a born baby up to a grown man is not the same as killing an unborn fetus. Not even close.

[Rathynas]

Better off dieing as an unconscious fetus than entering this world.

That sounds weak. Unless you mean their life would suck. Then I agree.

[Chemichonga]

That sounds weak. Unless you mean their life would suck. Then I agree.

No, I mean they're better off dead.

[Yakooza]

Is it called an abortion if you poop it out in 9 months?

[Rathynas]

No, I mean they are better off dead.

You think people would be better off dead?

[Harsk]

Would a male actually have the audacity to answer this seriously with a yes or no?

[Chemichonga]

You think people would be better off dead?

Simply put, yes.

[Rathynas]

Simply put, yes.

That's just weak... Don't get emo, now, Chemi.

[Sparhawk13]

But in the first month to the 5 month of pregnancy it seems perfectly fine to me.

Just curious:
Around 5 months is when the first connections in the brain required for higher brain functions begins; is this where you'd say the line should be drawn? (Flower, p444 - see my first post for more details of this reference)

[tsalin]

abortion ban is overpower; UNACCEPTABLE; slap in the face!

[Black Thunder]

Abortion is murder.

[Sparhawk13]

Abortion is murder.

What is it that makes killing a human murder, where killing other life, such as trees or ants, is widely accepted? The difference is that a human has complex thoughts and feelings that we agree should be protected. A fetus with no neocortical connections (those required for higher level thinking) has no thoughts or feelings; while I agree that it is living, it is not yet a human person, but rather a husk that could become one.

[aruzo]

Since when was abortion banned?

[Kaol]

Its legal in the Uk, isnt it legal in the US?

Not sure why you would make it illegal, plenty of cases where it could be a good choice.

[carpediem320]

For your information. Bud, I am happen to be in a very healthy monogamous relationship, and I use birth control. I live in a very nice home and make great money. I am not a stupid little fool out to get knocked up.and burden the system.

Some girls are responsible and do not burden tax-payers because they are tax payers too.

All you people who want to abolish pro-choice should be made to take in 5 or 6 unwanted kids and raise them as your own. instead of preaching here.

Just so you know its from a song Called Bad things.by jace Everett, its about killing people..lol you make me laugh

And you make me puke. Hypocr...lol

[tallefred]

I don't know how trimesters work, so I can't say. I myself would probably not get an abortion (unless I really wanted to), but I wouldn't judge someone who did.

[Special K]

Abortion is murder.

Originality is overrated. :rolleyes:

[Tyro]

Yep, late abortion (http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j291/Opinionnation/FetusHeadonSide.jpg) is ok!

[Rathynas]

Yep, late abortion (http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j291/Opinionnation/FetusHeadonSide.jpg) is ok!

Why the hell didn't you warn me!

Blechhh. That's ugly.