The "Zerg" phenomen

[Dethuz]

How do you think this concept will be in Darkfall?

I personally think the game will make it quite difficult to "zerg" someone due to the FF.

Zerg = Unorganized mass of players which relies on numbers to win.

[ace livion]

hmm... Unorganized mass.... who know's if there realy are a hell lot then thay hav good ods for winning :D

[Bloodcraft]

As you said... friendly fire. This has been mentioned more than a few times. You know that!

[Rimos]

If you have enough people you could over run the most skilled of people but i guess it jsut defends

[Grisu]

i think zergs will work just fine. even if they kill a few of there own, u will drop alot after the
n them.

[Akharus]

"Volley on my mark!"

...

"FIRE!"

/pincushion

GG Zerg?

[Dethuz]

As you said... friendly fire. This has been mentioned more than a few times. You know that!

On the other hand, coordination and skills might make up for it ,but then again, the "group" shouldn't be considered a zerg since they've have some skills.

[Abradras]

what i (we) THINK ?? what darfall WILL be ?? well,, wait,ur curiose about oure fantasies ??? ok,, so lets dream togehter i tell u my fantasy and u add ur fantasy to it ok ? and togehter we gona dream a new darkfall which would be just like oure cool dream. HAHAHA

[ajtx81]

what i (we) THINK ?? what darfall WILL be ?? well,, wait,ur curiose about oure fantasies ??? ok,, so lets dream togehter i tell u my fantasy and u add ur fantasy to it ok ? and togehter we gona dream a new darkfall which would be just like oure cool dream. HAHAHA

My head hurts :(

Oh and don't forget collision detection. So people cant do the circle of death like in SB.

[Dethuz]

"Volley on my mark!"

...

"FIRE!"

/pincushion

GG Zerg?

Haha that too, I wonder if there's some kind of missile collision. A group of range DPS could just tear somebody down pretty easily but that has to be done with not many meleers.

[poopmountain]

I think that it'll do fine if most everyone uses magery.

Since pretty much everyone will have some magery anyway it makes sense that most people will just use magic when in zerg mobs. Stand back and deal spam to only enemies rather than dealing FF to fighters.

Also, I don't know much about the resing system, but it seems like having a mass of people allows for plenty of opportunity to res fallen members quickly, hopefully before they get looted.

[Akharus]

what i (we) THINK ?? what darfall WILL be ?? well,, wait,ur curiose about oure fantasies ??? ok,, so lets dream togehter i tell u my fantasy and u add ur fantasy to it ok ? and togehter we gona dream a new darkfall which would be just like oure cool dream. HAHAHA

Bro... it's ok to put down the pipe.

:sly:

[Steveo]

This is actually one of my biggest concerns about this game.

From my expeirence though it only ruins a game when there is no way for skill to overcome it, specifically games where there is no death penalty(such as Warhammer).

[Powster]

friendly fire will control it some.. skill > loads of people will always be true... I think just running in circle in a 1vs2 you will be hitting one and one will be hitting you and one will be hitting both of you.. so one of them will die first then you will be low health so you run away and hopefully someone can heal lol.. thats one way to win

[kaffien]

30 arrows in the back would probably kill a person. Gathering that kind of group might prove difficult. 10 arrows in the back might kill a person though to.

Can shields block arrows?

[Smurfz]

ZERG RUSH!!!
kekekekekeke

[Bejita231]

i think the zerg in this game is going to be so easily defeated its not even funny, for one thing zergs dont pan their camera, so even the 3 people that DO know how to pan their camera wont be able to because you cant in this game so they cant warn the zerg of backstabbers, plus theirs a ton of aoe skills in this game, one core group of players will be able to dominate a stupid zerg so easily in this game

where the zerg completely dominates in warhammer online because it requires no skill, a zerg of noobs stands no chance in df because its skill based not items and number based

but there's one thing that destroys all and proof can be found in shadowbane, and that is LEGION, a MASSIVE guild that just takes over the entire world and makes it their own, no zerg or l33t guild can stop a legion

[Osprey22]

How do you think this concept will be in Darkfall?

I personally think the game will make it quite difficult to "zerg" someone due to the FF.

Zerg = Unorganized mass of players which relies on numbers to win.

Let me introduce you to the main Soviet Army Military Doctrine called "Human Wave"

[Dethuz]

but there's one thing that destroys all and proof can be found in shadowbane, and that is LEGION, a MASSIVE guild that just takes over the entire world and makes it their own, no zerg or l33t guild can stop a legion

The world is huge, I don't think it's possible to do so. It'd take ALOT of people.

[Wyr]

In Age of Conan (Kashetta gankfest anyone) or Warhammer Online we learned that in most MMOs nowadays open world PvP means strength in numbers (or instance crash). I really hope Darkfall will be different. But then again...

[Blezza]

Remember that if you're in a big zerg group vs less people there's a big chance you'll beat them and even if you die you'll probably get your corpse back unlooted.

[Goldsblade]

In my opinion if this games combat is similar to real lifes then a zerg could easily be overcom by dicipline.
For example Roman legions against celt armies, Romans mostly won.

My reasoning for this is because of collision, the zerg group will get in the way of itself (and take hitsfrom itself) the disciplined group will be less likley t get in its own way (in my opinion)

[Akharus]

i think the zerg in this game is going to be so easily defeated its not even funny, for one thing zergs dont pan their camera, so even the 3 people that DO know how to pan their camera wont be able to because you cant in this game so they cant warn the zerg of backstabbers, plus theirs a ton of aoe skills in this game, one core group of players will be able to dominate a stupid zerg so easily in this game

where the zerg completely dominates in warhammer online because it requires no skill, a zerg of noobs stands no chance in df because its skill based not items and number based

but there's one thing that destroys all and proof can be found in shadowbane, and that is LEGION, a MASSIVE guild that just takes over the entire world and makes it their own, no zerg or l33t guild can stop a legion

TBH, I fear this a bit. I beta'd Shadowbane, and played it a while after launch... and I witnessed the horrors of "d00dz" (no, not a clan name, just the phenotype) banding together into an unstoppable mass of slavering jawed morons. These assholes, are the kind of people who abuse every single exploit in the game, and gank 100% mindlessly and harass everyone else out of the game, until it's a dead game.

When servers polarize into a couple of (or a single) "Super Power(s)", the server essentially closes itself to new players/clans, because getting a foot hold becomes impossible as both sides crush you in order to force you into joining one of them.

At least, that's how it went with Shadowbane. My only consolation is that this game seems far more international, and I am hoping beyond hope that the pervasiveness of European gamers will help halt the flow of sugar addicted American kiddies from drowning the servers in 1ee+$p34K and dooming us all.

Mindless Zombie Ganker Legions =/= PvP'er Clans.

-Akharus

[Derkoth]

On the other hand, coordination and skills might make up for it ,but then again, the "group" shouldn't be considered a zerg since they've have some skills.

By skill do you mean running around in circles swinging a weapon like a chicken with yer head cut off=skill? If thats the case then Ill let my 9 year old play.

[Shaeldvlyn]

Zerg could work, but friendly fire should keep it from being the 'WIN' button.

[BladeSLicer]

Never doubt the power of the zerg!

[Fatboy5706]

I think that zergs will be overwhelming, they always are aren't they? Although I feel that zergs will not form until one race has started to take control of the map. It is our jobs as gamers to nulify zergs. Don't give in and join them, this is sparta, not persia! lol. If more spartas exist, than persian empires, we will have a fun game that will be awesome.

[Atrify]

Zerg worked in games like Warhammer.

But yes, FF in Darkfall would certainly make zerging fairly difficult to pull off successfully imo.

[MagicHobo]

I wouldn't be that worried mainly because of the fact that the people that are actually in the zerg will turn on each other as soon as things get boring, as well as people fighting over loot. I feel maybe a zerg will beat smaller groups once, but I don't think they'll have the discipline to stay together long.

Also, small teams will be able to beat zergs if they use the right tactics (shield walls, overlapping fields of fire) as well as maybe even a little subterfuge to drop a few sleepers in the zerg to slow it from the very beginning. 3 or 4 "sleepers" in a zerg will probably do more damage than people think, since everyone will just think "Oh its just friendly fire"

[Syr1nx]

Zergs can be defeated with good tactics, just take them out from afar, try to trick them into running into friendly fire. And suicidal AoE rushes aren't bad either.
If the above doesn't work, go QQ in another game, this is another effect of open pvp.

[Osprey22]

Zergs can be defeated with good tactics, just take them out from afar, try to trick them into running into friendly fire. And suicidal AoE rushes aren't bad either.
If the above doesn't work, go QQ in another game, this is another effect of open pvp.


Just Kite the masses into a ambush.

[retrospect]

A zerg is still a zerg

See the Fundamentals of Zergology
http://thenoobcomic.com/index.php?pos=296

[Elochim]

ranged-only zergs can gank you just fine :P

[Iskiab]

Haven't you guys been following the game?

The whole game is designed to be anti-zerg. If zergs work then the game won't be living up to how it's advertised.

Every time you swing your sword, every time you do an aoe, every time you cast a spell... it hits whatever it hits. The game doesn't discriminate ally or foe. Even if you misstarget a heal.. you heal your opponent.

For this reason, no.... zergs won't work. The large guilds are doomed to fail if they try rolling around as a pack AoC style.

[DemonDark]

25 fought 10, and lost. why? the ten was well organized and planned out. Rather swiftly, how they would fight. 25 lost 6 to 8 people... the group of ten.. lost 3.

[aruzo]

Dude zerging can definatly work, if the best player in the game is standing there and 100 wessex do a zerg rush and surrounds him and all delivers 1 attack each. INSTA-KILL!

[Pyrostasis]

How do you think this concept will be in Darkfall?

I personally think the game will make it quite difficult to "zerg" someone due to the FF.

Zerg = Unorganized mass of players which relies on numbers to win.

With out my UO hide ability I hope you are right. That one ability saved my ass so many times back in 1997 it was unreal. No hide and no stealing were big disappointments for me, but as long as the FF keeps the mob down Im fine.

[Anerian]

lol well no shit 1 guy isnt gonna kill 100 people, but i have a feeling were going to see alot of skilled groups of 25 or so killing 100 in the common zerg guilds

[Mittens_Da_Punk]

Comparing this to real medieval combat... Many armies were recruited from peasants who had never held a weapon. Yet they won through numbers against other groups of numbers... however often times a well organized trained unit can take them down... Spartans (not the movie... the real thing...) but the most powerful armies were the ones well organized and in massive numbers.. Napoleon for example was able to defeat just about anyone he could march his army to.

[Dethuz]

Comparing this to real medieval combat... Many armies were recruited from peasants who had never held a weapon. Yet they won through numbers against other groups of numbers... however often times a well organized trained unit can take them down... Spartans (not the movie... the real thing...) but the most powerful armies were the ones well organized and in massive numbers.. Napoleon for example was able to defeat just about anyone he could march his army to.

Then again, an organized group shouldn't be called a zerg.

[darthpotter]

Sure there will be "zerg" moments, but you have to expect that. Some battles will be epic mark my words!

[DemonDark]

"Sir, There charging us in a strange attack formation Ive never seen before!"
".. Stup1d nub, dats a z3rg. gt the dam AOE on that"


Ah, yes.. medieval combat... so much joy.

A strong well organized group will win.. 1 person versus any number above one is a lose... but 100 idiots swinging and shooting at the nearest thing.... theyll probly blow each other up.

[nisco17]

Zerg! (http://invertedgonzo.com/lj/scifi_files/zerg.jpg)

But eh, if a Zerg totally outnumbers you, you're probably screwed, unless they are just THAT unorganized.

It'll take extreme organization/tactics, but the cool thing is that it will probably be possible to fend off an unorganized Zerg if done correctly.

[Thorsin]

zergs will be harder because of frendly fire xD
witch i will lapgh at when the guy gettin zerges lives because the zergers kill them selfs

[FlakAttack]

Well, if I've learned anything from Planetside and EVE, it's that the zerg is persistant and deadly. It is very difficult to handle the zerg war machine.

In this game, I forsee the zergs initially losing in melee combat, and then switching to ranged/magic and dominating the battlefield. As it is often said, archers can make or break the battle.

[CalCD]

I imagine most zergs will just get dominated by the larger guilds. most zergs are unorganized and weak once the group seperates - noone wants to be hit by the huge arrow storm coming towards them. Organized guilds that work with strategy will probably be far more dangerous than the zerg.

[Cailian]

Well personally i dont hate zergs.
If you can manage to get a huge group of players, all braindead and with huge swords, well yeah come and face me. Its competative and fun.
And being part of it, well, sometimes sucks, but being braindead can sometimes be fun.
..Honestly

[Nimroddaarkhon]

Zergs are easy prey for a well organized guild to tear apart, For example take a look at some of these zerg ganking clips from DAoC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95TM7VkJajI

Gota Love old school AE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE_2wV0HYsA&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL7ZN_ZPA3c


Team Wizzy(1 person playing like 8 accounts)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL7ZN_ZPA3c

[Harto]

How do you think this concept will be in Darkfall?

I personally think the game will make it quite difficult to "zerg" someone due to the FF.

Zerg = Unorganized mass of players which relies on numbers to win.


Single race zergs vs visibly different races will work if they stick to melee. A group of 50 zerging fools can remember "Smash anything that isn't another Ork". But I think the game has been designed well enough to allow a small, organized force to counter a zerg effectively, but that would probably rely on well cast AoE spells.
A large group will always be a potential problem. Even if they only have leafblades.

[swiftbuster]

How do you think this concept will be in Darkfall?

I personally think the game will make it quite difficult to "zerg" someone due to the FF.

Zerg = Unorganized mass of players which relies on numbers to win.

Lol i think its gonna make it easier for a "large unorganized group" to kill themselves.

[Scrappy_Doo]

I imagine most zergs will just get dominated by the larger guilds. most zergs are unorganized and weak once the group seperates - noone wants to be hit by the huge arrow storm coming towards them. Organized guilds that work with strategy will probably be far more dangerous than the zerg.


Mostly large organized guilds will own zergs all the time. Even smaller tight knit highly organized guilds can compete with zergs. The problem with zergs in these style of games especially with full loot is that they will become a richer nation because of thier numbers. They tend to move in on high end farm zones and zerg it out looting everyone of all thier goodies and then moving on to another zone or holding that zone until an organized guild moves in to remove them. Problem with that is the zerg can sacrifice numbers where as to compete with some zergs you need your entire guild to be present which on a given night most guilds can't do that and therefore on the average given night the zerg wins simply do to numbers. If your guild fights a zerg force and you only have say 20 ppl fighting you may get 70 kills but still lose the fight and then all your gear where as the zerg can now loot thier kills and thier dead and not be set back any.

Sorta like the movie "300" even though the spartans killed thousands of persians they still were all killed which meant that the Persians in reality won that fight even though it cost them 20-30 Persians for every 1 Spartan.

[swiftbuster]

"Sir, There charging us in a strange attack formation Ive never seen before!"
".. Stup1d nub, dats a z3rg. gt the dam AOE on that"


Ah, yes.. medieval combat... so much joy.

A strong well organized group will win.. 1 person versus any number above one is a lose... but 100 idiots swinging and shooting at the nearest thing.... theyll probly blow each other up.
1 person against more than 4 is cutting it close but more than 1?

[swiftbuster]

Mostly large organized guilds will own zergs all the time. Even smaller tight knit highly organized guilds can compete with zergs. The problem with zergs in these style of games especially with full loot is that they will become a richer nation because of thier numbers. They tend to move in on high end farm zones and zerg it out looting everyone of all thier goodies and then moving on to another zone or holding that zone until an organized guild moves in to remove them. Problem with that is the zerg can sacrifice numbers where as to compete with some zergs you need your entire guild to be present which on a given night most guilds can't do that and therefore on the average given night the zerg wins simply do to numbers. If your guild fights a zerg force and you only have say 20 ppl fighting you may get 70 kills but still lose the fight and then all your gear where as the zerg can now loot thier kills and thier dead and not be set back any.

Sorta like the movie "300" even though the spartans killed thousands of persians they still were all killed which meant that the Persians in reality won that fight even though it cost them 20-30 Persians for every 1 Spartan.

There was more like 3000 people fighting with the spartans in that battle,the movie kind of embelished the idea that only 300 guys did all that,and alot more persians died than they showed.

[gingerbill]

In my opinion if this games combat is similar to real lifes then a zerg could easily be overcom by dicipline.
For example Roman legions against celt armies, Romans mostly won.

My reasoning for this is because of collision, the zerg group will get in the way of itself (and take hitsfrom itself) the disciplined group will be less likley t get in its own way (in my opinion)


dream on :) .

[Elochim]

when it comes to group vs zerg and not just 1 vs zerg.
then skill will prevail.

take warhammer for example.
our guild's army was always 1/4 of every enemy army. (yea we were order)
but in 2 months we only lost 1 fight. believe it or not.
ventrilo + a good commander that ppl listen to + skill, will beat any number of zerglings :)

[Jadow]

If you have enough people you could over run the most skilled of people but i guess it jsut defends

No.


Haven't you read the Noob no.8? She mentions that a group of 35 unskilled players was defeated by 35 skilled ones...

[PlayerOne]

A zerg is still a zerg

See the Fundamentals of Zergology
http://thenoobcomic.com/index.php?pos=296

http://thenoobcomic.com/index.php?pos=300

[ace livion]

No.


Haven't you read the Noob no.8? She mentions that a group of 35 unskilled players was defeated by 35 skilled ones...

dahhh.... 35 vs 35 if a fair figth exept that team 1 was unskilled....
it something else if it 35unskilled vs 10skilled.... = that Eath Skilled player have to be able to kill 3.5 player's....... the 1/2 is about teamwork...

[Erock]

skilled > unskilled
tactics > zerg

however i dont see it possible to beat 6:1 odds very often but it will happen and it will be epic