Israel "Achieved its goals in the Gaza Operation"

[Pcheez]

So over 1400 dead and still finding corpses under the rubble, 400 + of which are children, more than half of which are women. Now i do not particularly care for palistinians myself, not exactly best of buddies, but still the massacre seems pointless.

Israel cannot deny this offensive targetted innocent civilians, as UNRWA schools were very popular with the missiles, so were random houses.

Now that the ceasefire is effective on both sides, i still do not understand what either side gained from this.

Any insight ?

(Lolyetanothergazathread,wtfisagazaanywa y)

[Layedballer]

To kill those palestinians of course!
Other than that, not sure

[Steeler]

So over 1400 dead and still finding corpses under the rubble, 400 + of which are children, more than half of which are women. Now i do not particularly care for palistinians myself, not exactly best of buddies, but still the massacre seems pointless.

Israel cannot deny this offensive targetted innocent civilians, as UNRWA schools were very popular with the missiles, so were random houses.

Now that the ceasefire is effective on both sides, i still do not understand what either side gained from this.

Any insight ?

(Lolyetanothergazathread,wtfisagazaanywa y)
Dont willingly allow the militants to hide among civilians.
Because if they (Pals) are going to fight (and openly claim their war against the Israelis), then the Israelis are going kill them where they hide. Civilians will be killed, and it will be deemed as a Palestinian/Hamas mistake.

[Titus Ultor]

The Palestinians bring this upon themselves by supporting Hamas. Israel could be nicer, but it's certainly not required.

[Marec]

Dont willingly allow the militants to hide among civilians.
Because if they (Pals) are going to fight (and openly claim their war against the Israelis), then the Israelis are going kill them where they hide. Civilians will be killed, and it will be deemed as a Palestinian/Hamas mistake.

In one case, Israeli military send more than 100 Palestinians into a building and told them to stay in there since it's not safe outside. Then Israeli tanks fired shells into the building. "Hiding among civilians" ?

The Palestinians bring this upon themselves by supporting Hamas. Israel could be nicer, but it's certainly not required.

Hamas is the democratically elected Palestinian government. When Israel, the US and (regrettably) the EU decided to ignore this and instead tried to favour Fatah, they severly damaged the reputation of "Western democracy" in the entire Arab world.
Also I remember back then when Hamas had won the elections and Israel/US announced they would deal with Fatah instead, there were comments over every radio and TV station here predicting that this would be a tragic mistake.
Looks like it was. Remember:
If you want to make peace, you don't talk to your friends. You talk to your enemies.
Moshe Dayan

[Lord Belphegor]

Pcheez, I know you read this, you very well know that your continuous antisemitic messages will eventually turn your suspensions to a ban. Unfortunately, this forum has Jewish moderators and is particularly (one could say bias) hateful to negative comments towards Jews and Isreal (Even though Israel is supposed to be a secular state, right?).

Just a word of an advice buddy.

[AmonDominus]

I like how the Israel forces bomb the shit out of Gaza and send supplies/food in there at the same time.

[Lord Belphegor]

I like how the Israel forces bomb the shit out of Gaza and send supplies/food in there at the same time.

How is that ironic? You attack the enemy force, being Hamas, yet you provide necessities for the civil population. Israel controls Gaza borders, without some assistance to the civil population, it'd be really a genocide in the eyes of the world. If it's not simple humanitarianism, then it's a smart political move on their part. As much as I dislike Israel, I see nothing ironic about that.

[Haeso]

So over 1400 dead and still finding corpses under the rubble, 400 + of which are children, more than half of which are women. Now i do not particularly care for palistinians myself, not exactly best of buddies, but still the massacre seems pointless.

Israel cannot deny this offensive targetted innocent civilians, as UNRWA schools were very popular with the missiles, so were random houses.

Now that the ceasefire is effective on both sides, i still do not understand what either side gained from this.

Any insight ?

(Lolyetanothergazathread,wtfisagazaanywa y)

QQ more, you should be glad they didn't simply wipe the whole place off the face of the earth.

[Lord Belphegor]

QQ more, you should be glad they didn't simply wipe the whole place off the face of the earth.

They wouldn't, because someone would try to wipe them off the face of the earth (this is not 70s anymore), and they'd do the same, causing Middle East nuclear holocaust which would include Israel.

I love when people assume that even though Israel has superior military it is not shitting it's pants. There is a reason why nukes have only been dropped twice in a conflict and modern world nations have thousands of not more of them.

[Haeso]

They wouldn't, because someone would try to wipe them off the face of the earth (this is not 70s anymore), and they'd do the same, causing Middle East nuclear holocaust which would include Israel.

I love when people assume that even though Israel has superior military it is not shitting it's pants. There is a reason why nukes have only been dropped twice in a conflict and modern world nations have thousands of not more of them.

I wasn't aware that hamas had nuclear capability. (lol)

[Lord Belphegor]

I wasn't aware that hamas had nuclear capability. (lol)

They don't and I never claimed that. Iran is working on it, if they don't have it already. Syria, with Iran, are working on the same.

Modern politics and realities are completely changed due to nuclear capabilities. That's why you haven't seen WW3 so far yet we have more and stronger conflicts nowdays than ever before. You don't even need to have a nuclear weapon to cause fear. The simple fact that you are working on one is good enough nowdays. I hope you understand modern politics, because if that's the case, you should not have a problem understanding that as well.

L2GlobalPolitics.

[Haeso]

They don't and I never claimed that. Iran is working on it, if they don't have it already. Syria, with Iran, are working on the same.

Modern politics and realities are completely changed due to nuclear capabilities. That's why you haven't seen WW3 so far yet we have more and stronger conflicts nowdays than ever before. You don't even need to have a nuclear weapon to cause fear. The simple fact that you are working on one is good enough nowdays. I hope you understand modern politics, because if that's the case, you should not have a problem understanding that as well.

L2GlobalPolitics.

Oh I understand global politics sir, I still think they should wipe them out and just be done with the fucking bullshit over there. I seriously doubt anyone would be going to war with them over taking out the area. Possible, but unlikely.

[Vaalsha]

Nice lie Marec - care to back it up with evidence?

[Lord Belphegor]

Oh I understand global politics sir, I still think they should wipe them out and just be done with the fucking bullshit over there. I seriously doubt anyone would be going to war with them over taking out the area. Possible, but unlikely.

If you actually understood international politics, you'd know that a war is not the worst thing that can happen to a country. Israel cannot survive, or at least continue to develop at current pace, without the support of the western world. Just as North Korea would not survive if not for China. If Israel commited a genocide in Gaza, which would be equal to what you promote, in the face of the people, US, and other nations, would have to turn their backs on Israel. Israel cannot afford that. Understand what I am saying?

Again, L2GlobalPolitics.

[Haeso]

If you actually understood international politics, you'd know that a war is not the worst thing that can happen to a country. Israel cannot survive, or at least continue to develop at current pace, without the support of the western world. Just as North Korea would not survive if not for China. If Israel commited a genocide in Gaza, which would be equal to what you promote, in the face of the people, US, and other nations, would have to turn their backs on Israel. Israel cannot afford that. Understand what I am saying?

Again, L2GlobalPolitics.

Again, I understand what you're saying, they'd lose all support and possibly be sanctioned over it for some time.

I still want them to kill everyone over there. Why do I care if Israel descends back into the stone age.

[Lord Belphegor]

Again, I understand what you're saying, they'd lose all support and possibly be sanctioned over it for some time.


Sanctioned? Do you have any understanding of how Israel has built it's military and continues to maintain and develop it? If Israel was sanctioned, the VERY first sanctions would be military aid. Israel receives BILLIONS of dollars of military aid every year. That is the only reason it is the most powerful military force in the middle east and in the top in the world.

I still want them to kill everyone over there. Why do I care if Israel descends back into the stone age.

In a sense, we can agree on that. I honestly don't care what happens for Muslim extremists, which is what Middle East mainly consist of. If destroying Israel means rest of middle east descending back to stone age, I'm MORE THAN HAPPY! Actually, I'd be celebrating if whole middle east was descended back to stone age.

Please don't assume I back Hamas or any idiotic radical religious organization or state.

[Haeso]

Sanctioned? Do you have any understanding of how Israel has built it's military and continues to maintain and develop it? If Israel was sanctioned, the VERY first sanctions would be military aid. Israel receives BILLIONS of dollars of military aid every year. That is the only reason it is the most powerful military force in the middle east and in the top in the world.



In a sense, we can agree on that. I honestly don't care what happens for Muslim extremists, which is what Middle East mainly consist of. If destroying Israel means rest of middle east descending back to stone age, I'm MORE THAN HAPPY! Actually, I'd be celebrating if whole middle east was descended back to stone age.

Please don't assume I back Hamas or any idiotic radical religious organization or state.

I never suggested you do, you're the one who attacked me first here :p I've been playing devils advocate and suggesting what's best for me, not for them. And the whole middle east killing each other to the point where they technologically regress is something that is very good for me.

[Zutha]

What i found amusing in all of this is during the vote from all the countries in the world to request Israel to have a cease-fire, every single country voted for it..... with the exception of USA who abstained.

Making too much money from selling the rockets to them are we?

[Lord Belphegor]

What i found amusing in all of this is during the vote from all the countries in the world to request Israel to have a cease-fire, every single country voted for it..... with the exception of USA who abstained.

Making too much money from selling the rockets to them are we?

You find it amusing? I find it very obvious lol. Why would anyone find it surprising?!

[Lord Belphegor]

I never suggested you do, you're the one who attacked me first here :p I've been playing devils advocate and suggesting what's best for me, not for them. And the whole middle east killing each other to the point where they technologically regress is something that is very good for me.

:cool:

Actually, if we bring up devil's advocate, it's not you playing such, but me. You pick a side, I don't, or at least you don't do it clearly. You have been promoting destruction of Gaza by Israel, while only recently suggesting you would not mind the same for Israel. If you play devil's advocate, do it right. Promote death for all, in the particular topic. Just saying.

[Saiith]

What i found amusing in all of this is during the vote from all the countries in the world to request Israel to have a cease-fire, every single country voted for it..... with the exception of USA who abstained.

Making too much money from selling the rockets to them are we?

I don't find that amusing, I find that disturbing. How can any developed country be run by people ignorant enough to think that Hamas deserves peace?

[Haeso]

:cool:

Actually, if we bring up devil's advocate, it's not you playing such, but me. You pick a side, I don't, or at least you don't do it clearly. You have been promoting destruction of Gaza by Israel, while only recently suggesting you would not mind the same for Israel. If you play devil's advocate, do it right. Promote death for all, in the particular topic. Just saying.

But destruction of gaza intrinsically means destruction for Israel. They are linked.

[Lord Belphegor]

I don't find that amusing, I find that disturbing. How can any developed country be run by people ignorant enough to think that Hamas deserves peace?

I, on the other hand, find you disturbing. How can a developed human being think that Hamas equals Gaza population, including nursing women and children.

[Haeso]

I, on the other hand, find you disturbing. How can a developed human being think that Hamas equals Gaza population, including nursing women and children.

Necessary evil I'm afraid. Kill em all. There have been cases of both women and children being operatives, it's not unheard of or anything. So get rid of everyone there. No sense elimating most of hamas and making them martyrs and letting em set up shop in another area of the middle east.

[Lord Belphegor]

But destruction of gaza intrinsically means destruction for Israel. They are linked.

That's true, according only to what I have stated so far. You didn't make that clear. If you agree with me that only way to destroy Gaza would be equal to destruction of Israel, you should have made it clear. That's all I am saying.

Necessary evil I'm afraid. Kill em all. There have been cases of both women and children being operatives, it's not unheard of or anything. So get rid of everyone there. No sense elimating most of hamas and making them martyrs and letting em set up shop in another area of the middle east.

Like I said above and before, I am the one playing devils advocate by promoting destruction of entire Middle East, not you. Your message, from the beginning, until the moment I challenged your comments, has been that you back Israel. If you agree, why single out Hamas? Why aren't you mentioning the necessity to annihilate all Zionists as well? Your posts are only directed at destroying Hamas, and Gazan population which breeds Hamas supporters, not Israel which breeds Zionists.

[Haeso]

That's true, according only to what I have stated so far. You didn't make that clear. If you agree with me that only way to destroy Gaza would be equal to destruction of Israel, you should have made it clear. That's all I am saying.

But then I wouldn't have gotten like +6 from this thread. Noob.

[Lord Belphegor]

But then I wouldn't have gotten like +6 from this thread. Noob.

Again you fail, I have +10. Noob.

That's what real devil's advocate gets, ha.

:rolleyes:

[Haeso]

That's true, according only to what I have stated so far. You didn't make that clear. If you agree with me that only way to destroy Gaza would be equal to destruction of Israel, you should have made it clear. That's all I am saying.



Like I said above and before, I am the one playing devils advocate by promoting destruction of entire Middle East, not you. Your message, from the beginning, until the moment I challenged your comments, has been that you back Israel. If you agree, why single out Hamas? Why aren't you mentioning the necessity to annihilate all Zionists as well? Your posts are only directed at destroying Hamas, and Gazan population which breeds Hamas supporters, not Israel which breeds Zionists.

But as is already obvious, and been obvious, if they commit genocide in this global climate, they're gonna be fucked. So it totally elimates hamas, and hurts Israel this is a win win for me, and the devil.

[Haeso]

Again you fail, I have +10. Noob.

That's what real devil's advocate gets, ha.

:rolleyes:

No you just double post you fucking cheater.

[Lord Belphegor]

But as is already obvious, and been obvious, if they commit genocide in this global climate, they're gonna be fucked. So it totally elimates hamas, and hurts Israel this is a win win for me, and the devil.

Again, you didn't make that clear as your point. As a proper devil's advocate, you don't pick sides. You were siding with Israel. L2DevilAdvocate, please.

No you just double post you fucking cheater.

Fine damnit, +9! Happy? :sly:

Devil is the master of cheating, as his advocate, I only do my best to follow his ways.

:sly:

[Haeso]

Again, you didn't make that clear as your point. As a proper devil's advocate, you don't pick sides. You were siding with Israel. L2DevilAdvocate, please.

But siding with Israel gets Israel fucked. It's the same end result, and more likely to work. Your side makes MAD too obvious to Israel, mine doesn't. Therefore your argument prevents the MAD, mine encourages it.

GOOD DAY SIR!

[Lord Belphegor]

But siding with Israel gets Israel fucked. It's the same end result, and more likely to work. Your side makes MAD too obvious to Israel, mine doesn't. Therefore your argument prevents the MAD, mine encourages it.

GOOD DAY SIR!

How does it make mad obvious for Israel, and what the hell does it mean anyways? I never supported Hamas. By not supporting Hamas, how do I make it MAD obvious, as you say, for Israel? Explain please.

GOOD LATE EVENING SIR!

Also, read my edit above, sir.

FYI, excluding double posts, I still have more +1s as a true devil advocate. You damn poser!

[Chernobog]

Keep it civil guys.

[Haeso]

How does it make mad obvious for Israel, and what the hell does it mean anyways? I never supported Hamas. By not supporting Hamas, how do I make it MAD obvious, as you say, for Israel? Explain please.

GOOD LATE EVENING SIR!

Also, read my edit above, sir.

FYI, excluding double posts, I still have more +1s as a true devil advocate. You damn poser!

Your posts are informative and ultimatel discourage Israel attacking, not encouraging. Fail.

MAD = Mutually Assured Destruction. If they destroy Hamas and Gaza, they destroy themselves, you've made that obvious, and now they won't do it. YOU'VE FAILED!

[Dhig]

Next on the agenda to fuck up things. Give kurds their own country and support them with everything they need.

[Lord Belphegor]

Your posts are informative and ultimatel discourage Israel attacking, not encouraging. Fail.

MAD = Mutually Assured Destruction. If they destroy Hamas and Gaza, they destroy themselves, you've made that obvious, and now they won't do it. YOU'VE FAILED!

You make completely and utterly no sense. :(

Again, if you are devil's advocate, you equally support and express destruction of all. You don't.

I can safely say fail here.

[Dhig]

You make completely and utterly no sense. :(

Again, if you are devil's advocate, you equally support and express destruction of all. You don't.

I can safely say fail here.

I though devils advocate was to take the other opinion to create a discussion.

[Lord Belphegor]

I though devils advocate was to take the other opinion to create a discussion.

By definition, devil takes the side of the evil, in such case, the ultimate evil is destroying all and promoting destruction of all. While I see your point, my point stands.

[Grimwinter]

Israel obviously support the notion of FFA PVP.

[Kusghuul]

Pcheez, I know you read this, you very well know that your continuous antisemitic messages will eventually turn your suspensions to a ban.

Nothing anti-Semitic there. Critisising israel isn't anti-Semitic; saying all Jews must die is anti-Semitic.

[Lord Belphegor]

Nothing anti-Semitic there. Critisising israel isn't anti-Semitic; saying all Jews must die is anti-Semitic.

True, yet did I ever claim claim that all Jews or Muslims should die?

[Kusghuul]

True, yet did I ever claim claim that all Jews or Muslims should die?

Wtf? i wrote an example for you.

[Lord Belphegor]

Then you don't know Pcheez ;) and his posts, but I'll leave it at that. Good night sirs!

[Llyr]

The phrase "Devil's Advocate" specifically means to take up a contrary side in an argument, not necessarily the 'evil' side (which is disputable anyway), to generate conflict and debate.

Regarding the actual topic at hand, I'm not entirely sure what I think. Instinctively Israel feel like the brutal ones but then again how on earth are you meant to deal with a 'terrorist' force completely incorporated into a relatively democratic society.

One thing I *AM* sure of is that those of you suggesting Israel should just continue to indiscriminately nuke the shiat out of Gaza need to consider the fact that just because Hamas was democratically elected doesn't mean that every man, woman and child over there supports Hamas, and lumping them all into one guilty body is rather ignorant.

Ultimately - WTB time machine and not make israel in the middle of arab-land plx

[Lord Belphegor]

The phrase "Devil's Advocate" specifically means to take up a contrary side in an argument, not necessarily the 'evil' side (which is disputable anyway), to generate conflict and debate.

Regarding the actual topic at hand, I'm not entirely sure what I think. Instinctively Israel feel like the brutal ones but then again how on earth are you meant to deal with a 'terrorist' force completely incorporated into a relatively democratic society.

One thing I *AM* sure of is that those of you suggesting Israel should just continue to indiscriminately nuke the shiat out of Gaza need to consider the fact that just because Hamas was democratically elected doesn't mean that every man, woman and child over there supports Hamas, and lumping them all into one guilty body is rather ignorant.

Ultimately - WTB time machine and not make israel in the middle of arab-land plx

Hi lost brother!

[Spineless_DoO]

Pcheez, I know you read this, you very well know that your continuous antisemitic messages will eventually turn your suspensions to a ban. Unfortunately, this forum has Jewish moderators and is particularly (one could say bias) hateful to negative comments towards Jews and Isreal (Even though Israel is supposed to be a secular state, right?).

Just a word of an advice buddy.

Dont mistake a persons political and philisofical views for racism/hate. We have enough thought police around here without people like you making your own interpritations of everything. Dont think so hard!

[Lord Belphegor]

Dont mistake a persons political and philisofical views for racism/hate. We have enough thought police around here without people like you making your own interpritations of everything. Dont think so hard!

I am seriously confused about what you just said. REALLY. Maybe because it's really late for me, maybe it's other reasons, but I want to get some sleep. Stop trying to deprive me of it. :(

[Dhig]

Are not jews the people that follow judaism?
And those living in Israel are Israelites?
Though most Israelites are jews I guess they are almost one and the same.

If the jews make it into a religious war they are pretty much fucked I guess.

[Lord Belphegor]

Are not jews the people that follow judaism?
And those living in Israel are Israelites?
Though most Israelites are jews I guess they are almost one and the same.

If the jews make it into a religious war they are pretty much fucked I guess.

Israel consists of Arabs, non-Arabs, Jews, Muslims, Christians and so on. The elite of the Israeli government, that's a whole different story.

[Dhig]

Israel consists of Arabs, non-Arabs, Jews, Muslims, Christians and so on. The elite of the Israeli government, that's a whole different story.

Did I say something different?

[Fluffington]

The Palestinians bring this upon themselves by supporting Hamas. Israel could be nicer, but it's certainly not required.

The Palestinians had their country taken and then have been basically slaughtered ever since. I though you people at Forumfall would appreciate a rebellion because you seem to intent on going through one yourselves.

[Titus Ultor]

Hamas is the democratically elected Palestinian government. When Israel, the US and (regrettably) the EU decided to ignore this and instead tried to favour Fatah, they severly damaged the reputation of "Western democracy" in the entire Arab world.
Also I remember back then when Hamas had won the elections and Israel/US announced they would deal with Fatah instead, there were comments over every radio and TV station here predicting that this would be a tragic mistake.
Looks like it was. Remember:
If you want to make peace, you don't talk to your friends. You talk to your enemies.
Moshe Dayan

I do not particularly consider Israel or Palestine either friend or enemy. Just commenting on the situation.

[Skree]

Nice lie Marec - care to back it up with evidence?Probably came from here I'd guess. The BBC reports (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7819492.stm)
Israeli forces shelled a house in the Gaza Strip which they had moved around 110 Palestinians into 24 hours earlier, the UN quotes witnesses as saying.

The OCHA report said: "According to several testimonies, on 4 January Israeli foot soldiers evacuated approximately 110 Palestinians into a single-residence house in Zeitoun (half of whom were children) warning them to stay indoors. "Twenty-four hours later, Israeli forces shelled the home repeatedly, killing approximately 30." Or here: http://www.dci-pal.org/english/display.cfm?DocId=931&CategoryId=32

Or here: A United Nations report released Friday said that earlier this week Israeli forces repeatedly shelled a home to which the UN had evacuated about 110 Palestinians in the Zeitoun area of Gaza City, killing around 30 people.
http://www.enews20.com/news_Israel_bombed_building_used_for_eva cuated_Palestinians_15735.html

I'm assuming, of course, that you were not asking him to justify his statements about the Palestinians electing Hamas.

Skree

[SimonVDH]

Now that the ceasefire is effective on both sides, i still do not understand what either side gained from this.

Any insight ?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv5BYEOQYLo

^^ That's my insight ^^

[Aacevedo]

IMO:

Israel Objectives:
- Cripple HAMAS : Success
- Kill a lot of palestinians : Success
- Terrorize civilan population : Success
- Achieve maximum kill ratio : Clear success (1300/13) = 100 / 1 Kill ratio.
- Stop the launch of Qassam missiles: Failed.
- Show the world who is the boss: Success (The UN. didn't do shit). This proves the point that United Nations is worthless.

HAMAS Objetives:
- Survive : Success
- Gain world sympathy: Success
- Kill a lot of israelis, show the world they are a capable fighting force : Failed
- Impose truce on HAMAS terms (lift the blockade, open borders) : Failed
- Gain internal support : maybe... we could see a lot of suicidal bombings on the following months

UN Objectives:
- Ceasefire: Failed.
- Protect civilian population : Failed
- Make Israel comply with the UN resolutions : Failed
- Protect UN structures in Gaza : Failed

[Shayel]

The Palestinians bring this upon themselves by supporting Hamas. Israel could be nicer, but it's certainly not required.

|true| +1:rolleyes:

[Gib the Haunted]

This will all start again in 2 years, when Hamas has stock piled enough weapons and needs to use them again ..

[Fluffington]

This will all start again in 2 years, when Hamas has stock piled enough weapons and needs to use them again ..

Good thing the US keeps Israel well armed.

[bluthorn]

I love arguments like this so much.
"Israel can't hurt teh civilianz!"
Well, what about the Israelie civilians who die from Hamas rockets?
"..."
Exactly.

[Yobaj]

Anyone who denies that the Israeli governments agenda is to make life a living hell for Palestinians so that they move by themselves is a fool.

[BlacklistedL33t]

Probably came from here I'd guess. Or here: http://www.dci-pal.org/english/display.cfm?DocId=931&CategoryId=32

Or here:

I'm assuming, of course, that you were not asking him to justify his statements about the Palestinians electing Hamas.

Skree

anyone can quote anything from the BBC and it will be bias in favor of the Palestinians,the BBC and journos in general, have a way of twisting things one way or another in order to fit public opinion the way they want.what the bbc left out of those quotes is that that building was being used to store rockets that where being fired into Israel. so they took it out and quite rightly so. these two have been fighting since ww2 its time it came to an end either way, but i bet they well be fighting again within a year,

[Fluffington]

anyone can quote anything from the BBC and it will be bias in favor of the Palestinians,the BBC and journos in general, have a way of twisting things one way or another in order to fit public opinion the way they want.what the bbc left out of those quotes is that that building was being used to store rockets that where being fired into Israel. so they took it out and quite rightly so. these two have been fighting since ww2 its time it came to an end either way, but i bet they well be fighting again within a year,


They're only fighting because the UN decided to give them Palestinian land. Why the fuck do you think the US has an exceptionally bad reputation? Not only does it allow shit like Isreal to be created, it supports it. They do not hate your "freedom", they want you to stop fucking shit up.

edit: By the way, stop typing in dark red, it's annoying.

[Haeso]

They're only fighting because the UN decided to give them Palestinian land. Why the fuck do you think the US has an exceptionally bad reputation? Not only does it allow shit like Isreal to be created, it supports it. They do not hate your "freedom", they want you to stop fucking shit up.

edit: By the way, stop typing in dark red, it's annoying.

I like it when people use different fonts and colors, it's just another post I can safely ignore as it obviously has nothing important.

[BlacklistedL33t]

I can't fathom why the USA has such an ingrained mantra to protect Israel at all costs, despite its barbaric acts. No matter how it imprisons the Palestinians, flouts every UN resolution and shoots journalists and tourists, the world stills seems to have this all-consuming guilt about WW2 Nazi atrocities that act as a "get out of jail free" card whatever the state of Israel gets up to. Isn't it amazing how a little nation with a huge armoury of nuclear weapons and a modern defence force needs all that protection against its 3rd world neighbours. Perhaps linked to the population of immigrant ex-Europeans and Americans with plenty of influential contacts, unlike the dark-skinned Palestinian muslims and christians. You'd think the Jews would know a bit about being victimised by a brutal state.

There are obviously more than a few psychos inside Gaza who are firing rockets (with very occasional casualties - a bit like stuff getting lobbed over the old Peace Line in Belfast in the good old days), but that's no excuse for blitzing the whole city. Indiscriminate attacks are against the Geneva Convention, but these sociopathic lunatics get away with it time and time again. All they do is stir up hatred and people in the west fail to understand that there is a genuine grievance. Not in my back yard = who gives a toss.

[NapalmEnema]

So over 1400 dead and still finding corpses under the rubble, 400 + of which are children, more than half of which are women. Now i do not particularly care for palistinians myself, not exactly best of buddies, but still the massacre seems pointless.

Israel cannot deny this offensive targetted innocent civilians, as UNRWA schools were very popular with the missiles, so were random houses.

Now that the ceasefire is effective on both sides, i still do not understand what either side gained from this.

Any insight ?

(Lolyetanothergazathread,wtfisagazaanywa y)

It ensured Israel's military will be nice and busy with the next wave of terrorists when the current kids that lived through this grow up and learn how to make IED's and home made rockets.

Long live military job security!!

[Dwhap]

In one case, Israeli military send more than 100 Palestinians into a building and told them to stay in there since it's not safe outside. Then Israeli tanks fired shells into the building. "Hiding among civilians" ?



Hamas is the democratically elected Palestinian government. When Israel, the US and (regrettably) the EU decided to ignore this and instead tried to favour Fatah, they severly damaged the reputation of "Western democracy" in the entire Arab world.
Also I remember back then when Hamas had won the elections and Israel/US announced they would deal with Fatah instead, there were comments over every radio and TV station here predicting that this would be a tragic mistake.
Looks like it was. Remember:
If you want to make peace, you don't talk to your friends. You talk to your enemies.
Moshe Dayan

And that democratically elected government was firing rockets into Israel. There is an easy way to ensure this doesn't happen again - stop firing missles at Israel.

[Marrik]

So over 1400 dead and still finding corpses under the rubble, 400 + of which are children, more than half of which are women. Now i do not particularly care for palistinians myself, not exactly best of buddies, but still the massacre seems pointless.

Israel cannot deny this offensive targetted innocent civilians, as UNRWA schools were very popular with the missiles, so were random houses.

Now that the ceasefire is effective on both sides, i still do not understand what either side gained from this.

Any insight ?

(Lolyetanothergazathread,wtfisagazaanywa y)

the Israelis killed lots of Arabs. mission accomplished.




they prettymuch ALWAYS kill lots and lots of civilians in retaliation, whenever theres an attack on Israel. the same thing will no doubt happen again many times in the future.


oh and btw, in case you missed it, Israel shelled the UN Gaza office the other day.

[devereux]

In one case, Israeli military send more than 100 Palestinians into a building and told them to stay in there since it's not safe outside. Then Israeli tanks fired shells into the building. "Hiding among civilians" ?



Hamas is the democratically elected Palestinian government. When Israel, the US and (regrettably) the EU decided to ignore this and instead tried to favour Fatah, they severly damaged the reputation of "Western democracy" in the entire Arab world.
Also I remember back then when Hamas had won the elections and Israel/US announced they would deal with Fatah instead, there were comments over every radio and TV station here predicting that this would be a tragic mistake.
Looks like it was. Remember:
If you want to make peace, you don't talk to your friends. You talk to your enemies.
Moshe Dayan


Proof please and I do not mean propaganda.

[BlacklistedL33t]

It ensured Israel's military will be nice and busy with the next wave of terrorists when the current kids that lived through this grow up and learn how to make IED's and home made rockets.

Long live military job security!!

http://security.nationaljournal.com/2009/01/is-israel-a-strategic-liability-for-the-us.php


Though the responses are interesting the most fascinating thing is the very fact that the National Journal, a centre right magazine in the US, this week asked a group of 'experts' the question "Is Israel a Strategic Liability for the U.S.?" adding further "how many of the groups on which Israel provides intelligence would be gunning for the United States if it wasn't supporting Israel?"

The whole thing is worth a browse but I found these the most compelling quotes on either side of the argument:

Former CIA Analyst Michael Scheur: America has no genuine national security interests at stake in either Israel or Palestine; if they both disappeared tomorrow the welfare of Americans and the security of their country would not be impacted a lick. The Arab-Israeli religious war is a war that properly belongs solely to Israelis and Arabs; let them fight each other to the death with no interference in favor of either side from the United States. The continued, automatic, and idiotic identification of U.S. national interests as identical with Israel's made by our bipartisan political elite, the media, and those U.S. citizens who prefer Israeli to American security is only earning Americans deeper hatred and more wars with Muslims... The democratically elected Israeli government is right to try to vanquish Hamas; and the democratically elected Hamas regime has every right to try do the same to Israel. The point to keep squarely in view is that it does not matter to America's security who emerges the winner.


Former DoD Undersecretary Dov Zakheim: Many Arab governments that are friendly with the United States find themselves under considerable pressure from extremist groups that draw recruits in part by pointing to the weakness of Arab states vis a vis Israel. If Israel were to disappear tomorrow, however, there would be no real diminution of the challenge posed by Islamic Sunni extremists to the governments of Egypt, Jordan, Tunisia, Morocco and Saudi Arabia, among others. Nor would the Gulf States feel any more secure if they alone were left to face the threat from the Mullahs of Tehran. Were Israel to disappear tomorrow, the Iranian threat to those states, and to Iraq, would still be there. The Syrian threat to Lebanon would still be there. Indeed, Taliban threat to Afghanistan would still be there."

i use this color because it wound up a few folks that were trying to troll a thread i started, its kinda became my trademark :)

[devereux]

the Israelis killed lots of Arabs. mission accomplished.




they prettymuch ALWAYS kill lots and lots of civilians in retaliation, whenever theres an attack on Israel. the same thing will no doubt happen again many times in the future.


oh and btw, in case you missed it, Israel shelled the UN Gaza office the other day.

You fail to mention that Hamas was firing at Israel from that location.Lets try to state all the facts,so as to not color the picture the way you want.

Anyway to get off topic have any of you seen Religulous?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0815241/

Most excellant film.

[Marrik]

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=102301



theres my link to the news story about the Israelist ordering 100 Palestinians into a house and then shelling it.


they ordered about 100 members of a clan into a single house around dawn.

at 6:35 AM the next morning, they began shelling the house with artillery killing at least 70 of those inside. when Ambulances arrived, there were about 15 wounded people (as i recall) still alive.

they loaded some of them into the ambulances, and then they had to flee, because the Israelis opened fire on the ambulances (and everybody else).

over the next several hours, ambulances tried many times to rescue the wounded civilians, but every time they were driven off by Israeli troops who opened fire whenever they saw the ambulances.






lol different guy, same tired bullshit.


it doesnt matter if Hamas is using Palestine to launch rockets at Israel. nothing justifies this bullshit. those 70 civilians deliberately murdered by the IDF were not Hamas fighters. this was not an assault on a Hamas stronghold gone horribly awry.

this was a deliberate act of murder against Palestinia civilians by Israeli troops, and it is by no means unique, or the first of its kind.

[vdaoine]

Pro-tip: don't fire rockets randomly at another country. Israel did what any country would do. The loss of life is terrible, but it was caused by the cowardice of Hamas, hiding behind civilians.

If Hamas really cared about the Palestinian people, it would stop hiding behind them and actually use their resources to improve their quality of life, rather than make rockets.

Israel is forced to react, because if they show any weakness, the entire region comes crashing down on them.

[devereux]

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=102301



theres my link to the news story about the Israelist ordering 100 Palestinians into a house and then shelling it.


they ordered about 100 members of a clan into a single house around dawn.

at 6:35 AM the next morning, they began shelling the house with artillery killing at least 70 of those inside. when Ambulances arrived, there were about 15 wounded people (as i recall) still alive.

they loaded some of them into the ambulances, and then they had to flee, because the Israelis opened fire on the ambulances (and everybody else).

over the next several hours, ambulances tried many times to rescue the wounded civilians, but every time they were driven off by Israeli troops who opened fire whenever they saw the ambulances.






lol different guy, same tired bullshit.


it doesnt matter if Hamas is using Palestine to launch rockets at Israel. nothing justifies this bullshit. those 70 civilians deliberately murdered by the IDF were not Hamas fighters. this was not an assault on a Hamas stronghold gone horribly awry.

this was a deliberate act of murder against Palestinia civilians by Israeli troops, and it is by no means unique, or the first of its kind.

Then maybe the Pals should up rise and take out all the Hamas.instead of letting them use them as meat shields.When do they become responsible for their own safety. You can bet your sweet ass if some group crazies tried to use the US as a meat shield, we would take them out and stop getting shelled.

By not stopping it from within their own living area they asking for it.Its simple kill the Hamas and they will not have their innocent die.

[Haeso]

Hi I'm a douchebag who enjoys posting in difficult to read colors.

Douchebag.

[devereux]

And that democratically elected government was firing rockets into Israel. There is an easy way to ensure this doesn't happen again - stop firing missles at Israel.

I so agree with you, But fuck it who cares about common sense..***sighs**
I am just going to honestly leave this thread before my blood pressure goes up.

Lastly, stop firing at Israel and they will stop= common sense.

[Marrik]

Then maybe the Pals should up rise and take out all the Hamas.instead of letting them use them as meat shields.When do they become responsible for their own safety. You can be your sweet ass if some group crazies tried to use the US as a meat shield, we would take them out and stop getting shelled.

By not stopping it from within their own living area they asking for it.Its simple kill the Hamas and they will not have their innocent die.

good thing international law doesnt agree with the fucked up non-logic going on inside your head, buddy.


unfortunately, the UN doesnt have the capacity to do much of anything but talk :(

[Marbo]

Hmm, Hamas had done things such as storing weapons in civilian areas and firing rockets and mortars from packed crowds and buildings. I don't think the story is as simple as the IDF telling people to go to a house and then them shelling it. Really now, the IDF drops leaflets and calls folks and such to tell 'em to get out. This wouldn't make much sense. I'd just like to know what happened in the time between being told to get into the house, and the shelling.

[NapalmEnema]

http://security.nationaljournal.com/2009/01/is-israel-a-strategic-liability-for-the-us.php


Though the responses are interesting the most fascinating thing is the very fact that the National Journal, a centre right magazine in the US, this week asked a group of 'experts' the question "Is Israel a Strategic Liability for the U.S.?" adding further "how many of the groups on which Israel provides intelligence would be gunning for the United States if it wasn't supporting Israel?"

The whole thing is worth a browse but I found these the most compelling quotes on either side of the argument:

Former CIA Analyst Michael Scheur: America has no genuine national security interests at stake in either Israel or Palestine; if they both disappeared tomorrow the welfare of Americans and the security of their country would not be impacted a lick. The Arab-Israeli religious war is a war that properly belongs solely to Israelis and Arabs; let them fight each other to the death with no interference in favor of either side from the United States. The continued, automatic, and idiotic identification of U.S. national interests as identical with Israel's made by our bipartisan political elite, the media, and those U.S. citizens who prefer Israeli to American security is only earning Americans deeper hatred and more wars with Muslims... The democratically elected Israeli government is right to try to vanquish Hamas; and the democratically elected Hamas regime has every right to try do the same to Israel. The point to keep squarely in view is that it does not matter to America's security who emerges the winner.


Former DoD Undersecretary Dov Zakheim: Many Arab governments that are friendly with the United States find themselves under considerable pressure from extremist groups that draw recruits in part by pointing to the weakness of Arab states vis a vis Israel. If Israel were to disappear tomorrow, however, there would be no real diminution of the challenge posed by Islamic Sunni extremists to the governments of Egypt, Jordan, Tunisia, Morocco and Saudi Arabia, among others. Nor would the Gulf States feel any more secure if they alone were left to face the threat from the Mullahs of Tehran. Were Israel to disappear tomorrow, the Iranian threat to those states, and to Iraq, would still be there. The Syrian threat to Lebanon would still be there. Indeed, Taliban threat to Afghanistan would still be there."

i use this color because it wound up a few folks that were trying to troll a thread i started, its kinda became my trademark :)

Do you have any idea how hard it is to read red text on a gray background?

Would love to read and respond to your post, but I'm not going to get eye strain doing so.

Pick a different color if you insist on being 'different' and 'unique' but honestly I don't know why you and others bother with this silly crap. Just post in the default so everyone can easily read it. You're not special or different.

[Haeso]

Do you have any idea how hard it is to read red text on a gray background?

Would love to read and respond to your post, but I'm not going to get eye strain doing so.

Pick a different color if you insist on being 'different' and 'unique' but honestly I don't know why you and others bother with this silly crap. Just post in the default so everyone can easily read it. You're not special or different.

The only difference between him and any other forumfall noob is he's more of a douchebag, his posts are never important, just walls of poorly colored text.

[devereux]

good thing international law doesnt agree with the fucked up non-logic going on inside your head, buddy.


unfortunately, the UN doesnt have the capacity to do much of anything but talk :(

You can kiss my ass Buddy :P

[Teutates]

This is how I think about Israel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMGuYjt6CP8

[NapalmEnema]

The only difference between him and any other forumfall noob is he's more of a douchebag, his posts are never important, just walls of poorly colored text.

Glad I didn't bother reading then, thanks for the heads up.

[Sharuk]

Collateral Damage

[Zaratos]

I can't fathom why the USA has such an ingrained mantra to protect Israel at all costs, despite its barbaric acts.


What are you implying here you antisemetic bastard? RACIST RACIST RACIST!!!!

U.S.A. and the rest of the world owes to the Jews everything. They are a superior race.The God Himself has chosen this race to rule the world. They are a race of Messiahs, that has come to shed light to our puny existence.

We should be thankful because we have been blessed.

Palaistinians are arabs and arabs are terrorists. Terrorists must be exterminated at all cost. Hooray for Israel protectors of the free world and champions of humanity.


They will undo civilization and reform it in Gods image. They are the builders of the new world.

Resistance is futile.



*But the stone that the builder refuse, Shall be the Head cornerstone.
and no matter what games they play, we've got something they can never take away..

[Marrik]

Hmm, Hamas had done things such as storing weapons in civilian areas and firing rockets and mortars from packed crowds and buildings. I don't think the story is as simple as the IDF telling people to go to a house and then them shelling it. Really now, the IDF drops leaflets and calls folks and such to tell 'em to get out. This wouldn't make much sense. I'd just like to know what happened in the time between being told to get into the house, and the shelling.

if Israel is not doing it deliberately, and all these thousands of civilian deaths are just an inevitable side effect of modern war (which is of course a crock of shit and we all know it), then why did the Israelis shoot up the ambulances?

also, if they arent doing anything wrong, why are they trying to keep Red Cross from finding out?

http://www.newser.com/story/47341/red-cross-slams-idf-after-grisly-gaza-find.html





and what possible justification can you give that makes it ok that the IDF shelled a fucking HOSPITAL, a hospital full of civilians wounded in THEIR invasion, and in which there was no hostile activity?

[BlacklistedL33t]

The only difference between him and any other forumfall noob is he's more of a douchebag, his posts are never important, just walls of poorly colored text.

the only difference between haeso and Micheal Jackson is ....well......... nothing they are one and the same.

[BlacklistedL33t]

Glad I didn't bother reading then, thanks for the heads up.

if someone else can tell you what to read in a post and you believe it then your just another idiot.

[NapalmEnema]

if someone else can tell you what to read in a post and you believe it then your just another idiot.

STOP POSTING IN RED ON GRAY BACKGROUND and more people will read what you have to say.

Only idiot I see here is someone trying to be l337 and different by making lame font color decisions for posting.

[Zinsane]

My idea,
go forth wiht the cease-fire with the declaration that for every rocket fired by Hamas, Israel sends out an airstrike.
Hamas Missle = Airstrike and death
No Hamas missle = peace in Gaza.
Eventually Palis realize that Hamas is not in their best interests. Jews and Muslims hate each other, that will not change but in the interest of self-preservation by the Palis maybe they can agree to stop killing each other at least stop lobbing missle at each other.
I think Israel was justified in retaliation. Sucks about the kids and women and innocent people but that's needed to push the Palis into rethinking who they want in charge.

[Brandulfr]

I find it funny when the arab nations go against Israel. They talk a big game, and in less than a week Israel is on the verge of "All your base belong to us!"

Nuclear threats won't work against Israel. They would just send in their special forces guys to remove the issue of nuclear threats. Anyone who knows anything about the Israelis military knows that they are more than ready and capable of dealing with any threat in the Middle East. To think otherwise, only shows your ingnorance on military affairs.

Ignorance is to be expected of course, when 98% of these forums get their news from state run News companies.


Obliterate Palastine and send the refugees to Egypt. Problem solved. No one in that region will have the balls to do anything about it, and you are foolish to ever think that the Unites States will ever withdrawl its military aid and support of Israel. We support and give Israel military equpiment and training. Why would we abandon our strongest ally?

We do the same with Taiwan. We give them almost as much military aid as we do Israel. Look at both of these nations and tell me why would we, the United States, ever abandon them? The strategic value of both is to great.

Still, it is entertaining to read all these emotional posts. Keep it up!

[Ludo]

If you misbehave you get spankt. Palestine misbehaved.

[Glak]

In one case, Israeli military send more than 100 Palestinians into a building and told them to stay in there since it's not safe outside. Then Israeli tanks fired shells into the building. "Hiding among civilians" ?

:lmao: Bullshit.

[Floyd]

Palestinians need to realize who the real enemy is. Hamas kills Palestinians too. Clean out your own fucking country first before you support a war on another. They don't care what hamas does to them, you can't help people who are that retarded.

[Marrik]

:lmao: Bullshit.

it sounds too crazy to be true, doesnt it? but it is. read all about it.

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=102301


theres a link to the newspaper site here.


Israeli troops acptured the town of Zeitoun on a Sunday night, and ordered about 100 members of the Samouni clan (mostly women and children) to congregate in a certain house.

at 6:35 the next morning, the Israeli troops began bombarding the house with artillery, killing at least 70 occupants.

ambulances rushed to the scene and started trying to save the wounded. the loaded about 15 people into the ambulances, and then had to run for their lives because Israeli infantry opened fire on the ambulances, as they often do.

twice more the ambulances tried to return (there were at least 8 critically wounded people still alive in the ruins of the house), and both times they were driven off when Israeli troops opened fire on them.




coincidentally, that same week the Israelis also bombed the UN office in Gaza.

[Tdog]

If you actually understood international politics, you'd know that a war is not the worst thing that can happen to a country. Israel cannot survive, or at least continue to develop at current pace, without the support of the western world. Just as North Korea would not survive if not for China. If Israel commited a genocide in Gaza, which would be equal to what you promote, in the face of the people, US, and other nations, would have to turn their backs on Israel. Israel cannot afford that. Understand what I am saying?

Again, L2GlobalPolitics.

Ahh The US will never turn their backs on Israel.

Global Politics 101

UK, US, Japan, Germany, Israel, Canada will always be on the same side. It would take something major to change that.

[Fluffington]

Palestinians need to realize who the real enemy is. Hamas kills Palestinians too. Clean out your own fucking country first before you support a war on another. They don't care what hamas does to them, you can't help people who are that retarded.

Palestinians are fighting for their country, not another country.

[Fluffington]

I find it funny when the arab nations go against Israel. They talk a big game, and in less than a week Israel is on the verge of "All your base belong to us!"

Nuclear threats won't work against Israel. They would just send in their special forces guys to remove the issue of nuclear threats. Anyone who knows anything about the Israelis military knows that they are more than ready and capable of dealing with any threat in the Middle East. To think otherwise, only shows your ingnorance on military affairs.

Ignorance is to be expected of course, when 98% of these forums get their news from state run News companies.


Obliterate Palastine and send the refugees to Egypt. Problem solved. No one in that region will have the balls to do anything about it, and you are foolish to ever think that the Unites States will ever withdrawl its military aid and support of Israel. We support and give Israel military equpiment and training. Why would we abandon our strongest ally?

We do the same with Taiwan. We give them almost as much military aid as we do Israel. Look at both of these nations and tell me why would we, the United States, ever abandon them? The strategic value of both is to great.

Still, it is entertaining to read all these emotional posts. Keep it up!

Obliterate Palestine, kill and displace thousands to finish giving Isreal the country it shouldn't have? Fuck that. The only reason Isreal exists is to cause problems in the middle east so no one there can ever get their shit together if they ever needed to or wanted to attack the west.

[I Eat Children]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M5D5_m93A0

Palestinians got what they deserved for doing this to children.

[Jedicake]

idc

humanity fails anyways

[Mneh]

religious shitholes, both sides.
Someone tell Putin to throw some nukes in that general direction

[BLOodyMEss]

I like how the Israel forces bomb the shit out of Gaza and send supplies/food in there at the same time.

Dying people get hungry too..

[[O]_Fawkes]

K, now the middle east knows what Israel will do if you fire rockets into their backyard.

[Villa]

You know they say that when a child has had a bullied/traumatised upbringing, it can in some cases turn into a bully itself and do unto others what it had done to itself back in the day.

Clearly the Jews want to dish out some of that holocaust they received, but don't have the balls to do it to people who can actually fight back.

Sad times.

[Ankh]

You know they say that when a child has had a bullied/traumatised upbringing, it can in some cases turn into a bully itself and do unto others what it had done to itself back in the day.

Clearly the Jews want to dish out some of that holocaust they received, but don't have the balls to do it to people who can actually fight back.

Sad times.

It's not nearly as much fun when the other side fights back.

[Warhawk]

Hamas is the democratically elected Palestinian government.


I just tried to find Palestine on the map, where is that country at?

[Haeso]

I just tried to find Palestine on the map, where is that country at?

lolowned.

[forestchild]

So over 1400 dead and still finding corpses under the rubble, 400 + of which are children, more than half of which are women. Now i do not particularly care for palistinians myself, not exactly best of buddies, but still the massacre seems pointless.

Israel cannot deny this offensive targetted innocent civilians, as UNRWA schools were very popular with the missiles, so were random houses.

Now that the ceasefire is effective on both sides, i still do not understand what either side gained from this.

Any insight ?

(Lolyetanothergazathread,wtfisagazaanywa y)

They gain nothing both sides are still stupid and they do this for last 60 years and prolly doing it for next 60 years.

[forestchild]

I just tried to find Palestine on the map, where is that country at?

Its about the SIZE of a PRISON on gaza is a prison:P

[Haeso]

Israel needs a nice big "Mission Accomplished" somewhere.

[Warhawk]

They gain nothing both sides are still stupid and they do this for last 60 years and prolly doing it for next 60 years.

Its never stupid to defend yourself. Within hours of an Israeli cease fire 2 rockets fired by Hamas impacted.

Fk'n BRILLIANT.

[Villa]

I just tried to find Palestine on the map, where is that country at?

Can you find your own country on a map?

[forestchild]

Its never stupid to defend yourself. Within hours of an Israeli cease fire 2 rockets fired by Hamas impacted.

Fk'n BRILLIANT.

They will never learn:(

[Warhawk]

Can you find your own country on a map?

Yes. Its the one with all the freedom and money.

[chodie4u]

The Jews make it seem like they've had such a horrible history of oppression and hate so when they commit atrocities it's downplayed and is tolerable because of what they've been through. Bullshit. Don't believe your media outlets, Americans, they're controlled by Israeli ass-kissers (aka American Jews).

About militants hiding amongst civilians, it's called guerrilla warfare. The Israelis seriously don't care if they kill women or children, that much is obvious, because if they did, there would be no dead women and children. They have the intelligence and knowledge to know what guerrilla warfare is and how to not kill children while countering it.

Don't fall victim to the zionist's lies.

[Floyd]

The Jews make it seem like they've had such a horrible history of oppression and hate so when they commit atrocities it's downplayed and is tolerable because of what they've been through. Bullshit. Don't believe your media outlets, Americans, they're controlled by Israeli ass-kissers (aka American Jews).

About militants hiding amongst civilians, it's called guerrilla warfare. The Israelis seriously don't care if they kill women or children, that much is obvious, because if they did, there would be no dead women and children. They have the intelligence and knowledge to know what guerrilla warfare is and how to not kill children while countering it.

Don't fall victim to the zionist's lies.

So hamas cares about killing women and children? That whole point makes no sense. I don't take Israels side because of the media. I take their side because of hamas.

[Chernobog]

keep it civil guys.

[Warhawk]

About militants hiding amongst civilians, it's called guerrilla warfare. The Israelis seriously don't care if they kill women or children, that much is obvious, because if they did, there would be no dead women and children. They have the intelligence and knowledge to know what guerrilla warfare is and how to not kill children while countering it.


Their intel spotted batteries of rocket launchers between a school and an infirmiry. This is part of the reason the Israelis started a ground campaign rather than blow these up from 8,000 ft. altitude without risk to their ground soldiers.

I hate that these civillians are being held hostage, and Hamas fighters are nothing but terrorists and thugs. They have no honor whatsoever. They purposefully place the targets Israel will come after where a strike will kill civillians, and then flood the images of those dead and injured people all over the media.

It makes me sick. What a bunch honorless and gutless people. I dont use the word soldiers, because merely firing a weapon doesnt make you a soldier.

[Skree]

anyone can quote anything from the BBC and it will be bias in favor of the Palestinians,the BBC and journos in general, have a way of twisting things one way or another in order to fit public opinion the way they want.what the bbc left out of those quotes is that that building was being used to store rockets that where being fired into Israel. so they took it out and quite rightly so. these two have been fighting since ww2 its time it came to an end either way, but i bet they well be fighting again within a year,

1st off you pathetically stupid bitch the BBC and 2 other sources reported about a United Nations report.

Reading before posting could be your friend if you let it. :idea:

2nd if there were rockets stored in that building why did the Israelis tell them to go in there.

Making sense when you post could be your friend if you actually "think" about what you are posting instead of knee-jerking a response. :idea:

3rdly What is your source for the information that the Israelis force Palestinians into a building which had rockets in it and then blew it up ?

Or did you just make it up ? And even if it was true does it change the allegation ? Or reinforce it ? :idea:

Obviously no one told you, you ignorant noob, if your going to come at me bring your A game and pack a lunch, cuz it's gonna be a long day.

Now, kindly go fuck yourself. ;)

Skree

[Malishan]

In one case, Israeli military send more than 100 Palestinians into a building and told them to stay in there since it's not safe outside. Then Israeli tanks fired shells into the building. "Hiding among civilians" ?




Nice propaganda, unsupported bullshit.

[Fluffington]

Their intel spotted batteries of rocket launchers between a school and an infirmiry. This is part of the reason the Israelis started a ground campaign rather than blow these up from 8,000 ft. altitude without risk to their ground soldiers.

I hate that these civillians are being held hostage, and Hamas fighters are nothing but terrorists and thugs. They have no honor whatsoever. They purposefully place the targets Israel will come after where a strike will kill civillians, and then flood the images of those dead and injured people all over the media.

It makes me sick. What a bunch honorless and gutless people. I dont use the word soldiers, because merely firing a weapon doesnt make you a soldier.

The Palestinians are not an army, they are figthing one. It really is desperation because Isreal is being pumped full of support.

[Malishan]

The Jews make it seem like they've had such a horrible history of oppression and hate so when they commit atrocities it's downplayed and is tolerable because of what they've been through. Bullshit. Don't believe your media outlets, Americans, they're controlled by Israeli ass-kissers (aka American Jews).

About militants hiding amongst civilians, it's called guerrilla warfare. The Israelis seriously don't care if they kill women or children, that much is obvious, because if they did, there would be no dead women and children. They have the intelligence and knowledge to know what guerrilla warfare is and how to not kill children while countering it.

Don't fall victim to the zionist's lies.

What the fuck would you have them do? Blow bubbles and rainbows at the f'n rockets launched into their cities? You're rediculous.

Guerilla warfare is about hiding and mobility, not about placing rocket emplacements clearly visible in the middle of schoolyards and hospitals to invoke the strongest media frenzy possible when they're attacked and the inevitable civilian casualties occur.

[Warhawk]

The Palestinians are not an army, they are figthing one. It really is desperation because Isreal is being pumped full of support.

Time out, what? Are you suggesting the Palestinians are fighting Israel? THey are not. Hamas is. Now, Hamas is full of (no idea what percentage) Palestinians, but those people in general arent at at war with Israel. Hamas is. Hezbollah was/is.

They have to self-police and oust those thugs.

Until then, like I said before and all logical people realize, this situation will go on forever.

[Fluffington]

Time out, what? Are you suggesting the Palestinians are fighting Israel? THey are not. Hamas is. Now, Hamas is full of (no idea what percentage) Palestinians, but those people in general arent at at war with Israel. Hamas is. Hezbollah was/is.

They have to self-police and oust those thugs.

Until then, like I said before and all logical people realize, this situation will go on forever.

Ok, so you think that the Palestinians are sitting there, being displaced from homes, kept from food and being killed without fighting back?

[Marrik]

I say we get all the Israelis on a boat, nuke the whole place and start over.

this would never have been a problem if you hadnt put them on a fucking boat and sent boat loads of Jews to THE MIDDLE OF ARAB LANDS

[forestchild]

Ok, so you think that the Palestinians are sitting there, being displaced from homes, kept from food and being killed without fighting back?

No but fighting and in this case both sides is no solution untill they both at the sametime realise that they need a piecefull solution this will go on forever.

But how the people in gaza living is insanely inhumain, its just a big prison camp with children and women as prisoners.

[forestchild]

I say we get all the Israelis on a boat, nuke the whole place and start over.

So your saying get the israeli's to safety and then nuke whole place down?

Your even wursh then hitler if thats what you mean:(

[Fluffington]

No but fighting and in this case both sides is no solution untill they both at the sametime realise that they need a piecefull solution this will go on forever.

But how the people in gaza living is insanely inhumain, its just a big prison camp with children and women as prisoners.

I would say that is a shitty comparison, my prisons supply food and medicine.

[Desperado[1G]]

So your saying get the israeli's to safety and then nuke whole place down?

Your even wursh then hitler if thats what you mean:(

I think hitler would capsize that boat

[Warhawk]

this would never have been a problem if you hadnt put them on a fucking boat and sent boat loads of Jews to THE MIDDLE OF ARAB LANDS

The Jews have been there since the time of Abraham, and before even. It isnt Arab land really. The first era spanned from 1350 to 586 BCE.

[TubeSock]

The Jews have been there since the time of Abraham, and before even. It isnt Arab land really. The first era spanned from 1350 to 586 BCE.

Beat me to it. Marrik fails. And yes, forestchild, that is what I meant. :)

[Skree]

Ok, so you think that the Palestinians are sitting there, being displaced from homes, kept from food and being killed without fighting back?Fluff, what he denies is that Hamas is the Palestinians and the Palestinians are Hamas.

He tries to make out like they are separate. He knows and refuses to acknowledge that Hamas is made up of Palestinians and has the support of the Palestinians, which they displayed clearly in an election.

Zionist troll is Zionist troll trying to pretend otherwise. The give-away is that he puts all the burden on the Palestinians.

Skree

[Vessol]

So over 1400 dead and still finding corpses under the rubble, 400 + of which are children, more than half of which are women. Now i do not particularly care for palistinians myself, not exactly best of buddies, but still the massacre seems pointless.

Israel cannot deny this offensive targetted innocent civilians, as UNRWA schools were very popular with the missiles, so were random houses.

Now that the ceasefire is effective on both sides, i still do not understand what either side gained from this.

Any insight ?

(Lolyetanothergazathread,wtfisagazaanywa y)

30,000 people died today from starvation.

Where are your tears for them you fucking hypocrite?

[Vanno]

Eh the cycle goes on. This isn't going to have any positive results.

[Lofwyrr]

I like how the Israel forces bomb the shit out of Gaza and send supplies/food in there at the same time.

No, that's just not correct.
They bomb the hell out of everything inside gaza, that contains massive civilian population using weapons like cluster bombs and phosphor bombs to have a better effect, while they officially pretend to target at missile bases.
They effectively stop all help targeted at gaza by other nations.
Several nations chose to assist isreal in their slaughter while others did not. (like USA decided to send 3000 tons of ammunition to israel, while greece decided to not let them dock. therefore those ships did not reach israel. thanks greece :)

And isreal is doing so because they did something like this beforehand:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_JNlxgs6qm2M/SXCfEIrgEwI/AAAAAAAACbs/Sx_0QvzGJoE/s1600-h/haaretz+story+censored.jpg

This is a local copy of the text, since the original was up just for some hours (guess what..).

Putting this all together means, that israel started an offensive war against another country and slaughters civilians on a massive scale and gets supported by (ie.) the US.

All i want to know is: where is the difference to serbia, where the exact same thing happened, but the US supported the opressed country?

addendum: interesting unsorted additional links:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfFMZ7Y-s_c
http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=5838
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/09/gaza-palestinians-israel-evacuees-zeitoun
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=80443&sectionid=351020202
http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-38530.html#backToArticle=599555
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/04/gaza-hamas-ceasefire-confusion

that's just the links in english (and a photo with german subtext).
i can easily come up with the same amount in german covering other aspects of israelian war crimes.

[Girth]

Can we steer the boats into a few ovens?

That was harsh but I lol'd

[TubeSock]

That was harsh but I lol'd

Pfft, and I get the infraction.

[Girth]

Pfft, and I get the infraction.

chalk it up to your beta join date.

[Warhawk]

No, that's just not correct.
They bomb the hell out of everything inside gaza, that contains massive civilian population using weapons like cluster bombs and phosphor bombs to have a better effect, while they officially pretend to target at missile bases.
They effectively stop all help targeted at gaza by other nations.
Several nations chose to assist isreal in their slaughter while others did not. (like USA decided to send 3000 tons of ammunition to israel, while greece decided to not let them dock. therefore those ships did not reach israel. thanks greece :)

And isreal is doing so because they did something like this beforehand:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_JNlxgs6qm2M/SXCfEIrgEwI/AAAAAAAACbs/Sx_0QvzGJoE/s1600-h/haaretz+story+censored.jpg

This is a local copy of the text, since the original was up just for some hours (guess what..).

Putting this all together means, that israel started an offensive war against another country and slaughters civilians on a massive scale and gets supported by (ie.) the US.

All i want to know is: where is the difference to serbia, where the exact same thing happened, but the US supported the opressed country?

addendum: interesting unsorted additional links:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfFMZ7Y-s_c
http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=5838
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/09/gaza-palestinians-israel-evacuees-zeitoun
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=80443&sectionid=351020202
http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-38530.html#backToArticle=599555
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/04/gaza-hamas-ceasefire-confusion

that's just the links in english (and a photo with german subtext).
i can easily come up with the same amount in german covering other aspects of israelian war crimes.

You give Germans a bad name.

[Lofwyrr]

You give Germans a bad name.

At what point exactly?

[polysyllabist]

By showing the world that the Israeli's were going to take shit laying down they created the necissity for the world to intervene and force both sides to the table. With the world watching the results of which will largely affect public perception moving forward. Israel, ultimately desiring peace hopes that this either means that Hamas lives up to the agreement this time, or breaks their commitments again while the whole world watches.

At least, that's what they think will come of it.

As for Hamas? Well, by resisting they create short term image of them legitimately 'defending' the palastinians from an unjust aggressor who showed no regard for civilians... never you mind that Hamas chose to fight from residential centers, store weapon caches in schools and homes and spent their resources on missles and tunnels instead of hospitals andfood stores.

[Darstar]

to the op, hamas uses(d) children as human shields.

[haarbicht]

to the op, hamas uses(d) children as human shields.
...perhaps! but theres no reason to kill groups of families, to attack housing areas, because there could be ONE hamas inside :sly: There are simply (Mass-)MURDERs at both sides! Fuck all governments, who assist this war!!!