American propoganda.

[Vaalsha]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHzSBEVbXtM
I keep seeing this advert whenever I go to the movie theatre in FL. Anyone else seeing it and whats your opinion on it? I think its bordering on facist.
/Discuss!

[cosimo84]

kid rock sucked to begin with

[Jaxrobman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHzSBEVbXtM
I keep seeing this advert whenever I go to the movie theatre in FL. Anyone else seeing it and whats your opinion on it? I think its bordering on facist.
/Discuss!

lol just trying to recruit more peons... for our zionist army,national guard whatever

[1998altima]

America FUCK YEAH!
Freedom is the only way Yeah!
Ameri....

Oh wait that's already a song. Fuck I hate this commercial.

[LordTenacious]

I think its bordering on facist.

Well, at least I now know that I can ignore anything you ever type.

[Kuruptix]

hahah im not even 18 yet and i get letters from the national guard and the army in my mail. hahah like wtf and im not even a citizen

[Jesus]

kid rock sucked to begin with

And apparently he has now also sold out to the USA government...

What the hell is this...? Does this ad campaign actually work?

This is ridiculous, but the biggest problem I see in the USA right now is that any argument against the government's policies is considered "unpatriotic" by the majority.

Disturbingly the USA is following patterns of many countries pre-dictatorship. All that is needed is a charismatic leader to unite the haters.

[Vaalsha]

Congratulations lord on your utterly witty and useful reply! What would we do withought you? It would have to be self serve at Mc donalds :(

[LordTenacious]

Congratulations lord on your utterly witty and useful reply! What would we do withought you? It would have to be self serve at Mc donalds :(
Well played. I'm not being sarcastic.

[SentrySteve]

The song actually sucks.

[Vaalsha]

You obviously didnt ignore my last comment...

[kiasta]

hahah im not even 18 yet and i get letters from the national guard and the army in my mail. hahah like wtf and im not even a citizen

Well hopefully they don't try to force you to sign their draft form when you hit 18 like they do to every male.

[cosimo84]

And apparently he has now also sold out to the USA government...

What the hell is this...? Does this ad campaign actually work?

This is ridiculous, but the biggest problem I see in the USA right now is that any argument against the government's policies is considered "unpatriotic" by the majority.

Disturbingly the USA is following patterns of many countries pre-dictatorship. All that is needed is a charismatic leader to unite the haters.

I guess I feel like they very appropriately matched their means of advertisement with the taste of their target demographic.

If it were Dethklok telling me to be all i can be, then i might be offended.

Really though, let em advertise however they want.

[Phratello]

You guys are just fucking communists! America ROCKS!!! GOD BLESS IT AND NO WHERE ELSE!










( If you can't detect the massive amounts of sarcasm in the previous statements murder yourself )

[Nevron]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHzSBEVbXtM
I keep seeing this advert whenever I go to the movie theatre in FL. Anyone else seeing it and whats your opinion on it? I think its bordering on facist.
/Discuss!

It's just an advertisement for recruiting efforts. If it was a video portraying nothing but the negatives like the news generally does, would you come here crying about being subjected to that "propaganda"? I doubt it. You'd probably be sitting there with a smug grin letting out some ridiculous Beavis and Butthead laugh saying "huh huh, cool they're bashing the US, huh huh".

[Jesus]

It's just an advertisement for recruiting efforts. If it was a video portraying nothing but the negatives like the news generally does, would you come here crying about being subjected to that "propaganda"? I doubt it. You'd probably be sitting there with a smug grin letting out some ridiculous Beavis and Butthead laugh saying "huh huh, cool they're bashing the US, huh huh".

Please, expand on the positive aspects of war.

[cosimo84]

You guys are just fucking communists! America ROCKS!!! GOD BLESS IT AND NO WHERE ELSE!










( If you can't detect the massive amounts of sarcasm in the previous statements murder yourself )
it aint all about 'merica

dontchoo forget about Texas now.

[Vaisnt]

Its sad that most of The USA's opinion comes from the coasts.

[Vaalsha]

Since when is stating an opinion and starting a discussion classified as "crying" ?
You fail :confused:

[Nevron]

Please, expand on the positive aspects of war.

Judging by your demeanor, it's apparent that any representation of a positive of being in the military will be written off by your biased perspective.

[Freyr]

Please, expand on the positive aspects of war.

Considering the song is about joining the National Guard and not about a war why would there be a need to expand on positive aspects of war? National Guard does a shit ton more than fight in wars as does much of the U.S. military.

ps- the song does suck, the one 3 doors down did was much better

[Vanno]

They definitely know their target demographic, and Kid Rock has definitely always sucked.

[Apex Vertigo]

Fascist? Since when did recruiting tactics in the form of a music video become fascist? They are just playing to the crowd that would be more likely to volunteer for the army, they aren't forcing anyone to join.

Take the tin foil hat off please.

[Tdog]

Well hopefully they don't try to force you to sign their draft form when you hit 18 like they do to every male.

First off - What are you talking about? Nobody forces you to sign anything when you turn 18.

Second - The song is about honoring our citizen soldiers not about recruiting more.

Ever country on earth self prompts and tries to influence other nations. America just does it louder because we have the power, real or fake, to projected it worldwide.

It is amazing how many people on these forums forgets all the positive things America has done for the world. You all would rather focus on the negative things, its just like the media. Negative news sells better then positive news. You all act like the very thing you hate.

America is about the people not the government. You should know the difference between an American and the American Government. Its really not that hard to understand.

Its very simple. Like every other major nation in history, America will lose its spot at the head of the international table. The main problem is America has never not been at the head of the table and we as a nation do not know how to handle that. America just like every empire in history will collapse and have to start over fresh.

I am proud to be an American. I will be proud to be an American till the day I day. America is the home of the free and the land of the brave. Remember that America is just an idea, a concept. Our Government forgot that years ago, the rich and greedy run this world and will continue to do so until enough people decide to change it. If history has taught us anything, it is that the will of the people will always win.

[Apex Vertigo]

First off - What are you talking about? Nobody forces you to sign anything when you turn 18.

Second - The song is about honoring our citizen soldiers not about recruiting more.

Only read these 2 lines because I can only imagine the paragraphs to follow to be too wrong to bare.

You have to register for the draft when you turn 18 in America, even when there is not a draft in affect. Also, the song is about recruiting, this is advertisement to recruit and show how "awesome" being a soldier is in various ways.

[Tdog]

Only read these 2 lines because I can only imagine the paragraphs to follow to be too wrong to bare.

You have to register for the draft when you turn 18 in America, even when there is not a draft in affect. Also, the song is about recruiting, this is advertisement to recruit and show how "awesome" being a soldier is in various ways.

I am 26 and live in America and I have never signed a draft card. What the hell are you talking about?

Second it is only a recruiting video if you want it to be. It is to show how "awesome" our soldiers are. Now if that makes you want to sign up cool, if not then enjoy the music and remember that it is those "awesome" soldiers that allow you to live the life you have. Our Military is great because the people that join want to be there and people that do not want to join have the "Choice" to not join.

[Teutates]

Ameristan.



I am 26 and live in America and I have never signed a draft card. What the hell are you talking about?

Second it is only a recruiting video if you want it to be. It is to show how "awesome" our soldiers are. Now if that makes you want to sign up cool, if not then enjoy the music and remember that it is those "awesome" soldiers that allow you to live the life you have. Our Military is great because the people that join want to be there and people that do not want to join have the "Choice" to not join.

Tdog, the forumfall redneck.

[woehhh]

red necks with guns and nascars. zooo000m

[Pavlos]

Fascist? Since when...

"So don't tell me who's wrong and right
When liberty starts slipping away (a lie in this context)
And if you ain't gonna fight
Get out of the way"

[Nephyx13]

Victory to the Intifada!

[LordTenacious]

I agree Pavlos. All song lyrics should be taken literally.

Now if you will excuse me, I'm going to go cap some hos in the ass.

[Vaalsha]

If your not going to fight, then get out of the way.
When liberty starts slipping away.

Theres others but that seems pretty facist to me.
I mean im not saying it is facist but it seems like its leaning or making appeals in that direction. Military should never be glorified, its also a recruitment video.

[PirateGlen]

If your not going to fight, then get out of the way.
When liberty starts slipping away.

Theres others but that seems pretty facist to me.
I mean im not saying it is facist but it seems like its leaning or making appeals in that direction. Military should never be glorified, its also a recruitment video.

The way you use fascist leads me to believe you don't know what it means, originally or for its contemporary usage.

[Vaalsha]

I do know what facism means and one of its traits is militarism, and authoritarianism which fits in with the video. Maybe facism is a exageration but the way the USA has been going these last few years..... the way the conservative religous zealots want it is a facist theocracy.

[chodie4u]

hahah im not even 18 yet and i get letters from the national guard and the army in my mail. hahah like wtf and im not even a citizen

Funny you can't even vote or drink alcohol yet they want you to die for those freedoms.

[Grimness]

And apparently he has now also sold out to the USA government...

What the hell is this...? Does this ad campaign actually work?

This is ridiculous, but the biggest problem I see in the USA right now is that any argument against the government's policies is considered "unpatriotic" by the majority.

Disturbingly the USA is following patterns of many countries pre-dictatorship. All that is needed is a charismatic leader to unite the haters.

The way American politics is going is very frustrating, as USA in principle has the most awesome government model ever. The founding fathers are surely spinning in their graves.

[chodie4u]

The founding fathers are surely spinning in their graves.

We won't have to worry about that as soon as we pave them over for the new Wal-Mart we are building.

[palo god]

lol just trying to recruit more peons... for our zionist army,national guard whatever

Whats wrong with being a zionist?

@OP: it sucked.

[Daccus]

You guys are just fucking communists! America ROCKS!!! GOD BLESS IT AND NO WHERE ELSE!










( If you can't detect the massive amounts of sarcasm in the previous statements murder yourself )

Never add a sarcasm tag at the end of a sarcastic post. If your post is sufficiently sarcastic and someone doesn't pick up on the sarcasm, then you have full reign to troll.

[Evil Monkey]

lol the USA.

they countrey that pretends to be a Free Democracy.

Also the countrey that loves to bomb other countreys into 'democracies' wich is impossible. But well they don't really get it I bet.

[chodie4u]

Whats wrong with being a zionist?

You get lumped in with the Israelis.

[Daccus]

lol the USA.

they countrey that pretends to be a Free Democracy.

Also the countrey that loves to bomb other countreys into 'democracies' wich is impossible. But well they don't really get it I bet.

Japan? Germany? The Iraqi people were free to vote for their own president, were they not? I could be wrong here, but I believe all three examples are democracies.

[alhazred]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHzSBEVbXtM
I keep seeing this advert whenever I go to the movie theatre in FL. Anyone else seeing it and whats your opinion on it? I think its bordering on facist.
/Discuss!

i bet you love to rant about free speech so why dont you let others use it

get over with it like it or not they bought the space they can put what they want there

[alhazred]

Japan? Germany? The Iraqi people were free to vote for their own president, were they not? I could be wrong here, but I believe all three examples are democracies.

lol dont try reason it dose not work with this crowd unless you chase them and break there points for a good 8 pages

[crispyfried]

i bet if the usa closed it's borders completely and stopped all trade with the rest of the world they would still blame us for their problems ..
because it's easier to blame us than to look at the real reasons they are messed up ....they did it to themselves !!!

[Titus Ultor]

I do know what facism means and one of its traits is militarism, and authoritarianism which fits in with the video. Maybe facism is a exageration but the way the USA has been going these last few years..... the way the conservative religous zealots want it is a facist theocracy.

Lol. Past few years? America's been militaristic virtually her whole life. She's been imperialistic for over a century. Religious zealots once banned the production, transport and consumption of alcohol -- come on, learn2history. What's happening now is nothing new, and it is not even particularly brazen given what we have seen in the past.

This is ridiculous, but the biggest problem I see in the USA right now is that any argument against the government's policies is considered "unpatriotic" by the majority.

LOL. This may have been the case six years ago, here. I'm not sure if you've followed the past three or four years of American politics, but the current administration (in power for the next week or so) has had a very low approval rating much of that time, and we just elected an opposition party into control of both the legislative and executive branches.

Quite a bit of what has been going on in American over the past eight years qualifies as "fascist", but a Kid Rock song with a pro-National Guard video is really not exemplary of those trends.

[Ziegler]

I like the song, the commercial and dont give a flying fuck what you little socialist hippie bitches want to spout off about it. And dont worry, those guys in the video will gladly fight and die for your right to sit behind a screen and anonymously bash them. Even if you aint american.

[Bosemann]

Honestly , everyone just lay off with the America is facist spiel.

It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else.

Yet underneath all this mess there does lie a kind of buried meaning. To begin with, it is clear that there are very great differences, some of them easy to point out and not easy to explain away, between the régimes called Fascist and those called democratic. Secondly, if ‘Fascist’ means ‘in sympathy with Hitler’, some of the accusations I have listed above are obviously very much more justified than others. Thirdly, even the people who recklessly fling the word ‘Fascist’ in every direction attach at any rate an emotional significance to it. By ‘Fascism’ they mean, roughly speaking, something cruel, unscrupulous, arrogant, obscurantist, anti-liberal and anti-working-class. Except for the relatively small number of Fascist sympathizers, almost any English person would accept ‘bully’ as a synonym for ‘Fascist’. That is about as near to a definition as this much-abused word has come.

But Fascism is also a political and economic system. Why, then, cannot we have a clear and generally accepted definition of it? Alas! we shall not get one — not yet, anyway. To say why would take too long, but basically it is because it is impossible to define Fascism satisfactorily without making admissions which neither the Fascists themselves, nor the Conservatives, nor Socialists of any colour, are willing to make. All one can do for the moment is to use the word with a certain amount of circumspection and not, as is usually done, degrade it to the level of a swearword.
http://www.orwell.ru/library/articles/As_I_Please/english/efasc

[Sabbathius]

And dont worry, those guys in the video will gladly fight and die for your right to sit behind a screen and anonymously bash them. Even if you aint american.

You mean they will fight and die to control the world's oil supply on which the country's entire economy, rich and poor, socialist or fascist, is based on? I don't see US military "defending freedom" in countries from which they don't benefit. I also don't see US invading China or India or North Korea, and those guys are developing weapons of mass destruction, real ones, not imaginary like Iraq, and aren't signatories to non-proliferation treaty. Or do you still believe US military is in Iraq because Saddam had something to do with 9/11 or because he was stockpiling WMAs? Grow up.

Killing Middle Easterners and imposing your views on them, does nothing for my civil rights, which are, in fact, being infringed upon on US soil, or didn't you notice they're slowly rewriting the Constitution? If anything, it's the US government that is threatening my right to sit behind the keyboard and bitch about it, not the Middle East. Though I don't bash the military, I bash their reason for being where they are. So if you wanna "fight for freedom", Washington D.C. is your target. Because while you fight for oil in a nameless little village half way across the world, your corrupt politicians are slowly taking your country away from you, along with your rights.

You've had Vietnam, Russians had the Afghanistan, then you had Afghanistan, again, with weapons you supplied them to fight Russians less than two decades ago now turned against you, and then Iraq, and you STILL don't learn that it accomplishes nothing, because you're blinded with your marching, stamping your boots, waving the flag and singing "Glory, glory, hallelujah..."

Look at Vietnam war. It would have cost USA LESS money, instead of sending in the troops, of which half a million ended up dead, to buy every Vietnam family a car, a TV and run TV stations pushing American Dream day and night, and just brainwash them over the course of a decade. With young people having the same values as the Westerners. Far less, in lives and in dollars. And it would have worked, instead of having your asses handed to you.

[Ziegler]

You mean they will fight and die to control the world's oil supply on which the country's entire economy, rich and poor, socialist or fascist, is based on? I don't see US military "defending freedom" in countries from which they don't benefit. I also don't see US invading China or India or North Korea, and those guys are developing weapons of mass destruction, real ones, not imaginary like Iraq, and aren't signatories to non-proliferation treaty. Or do you still believe US military is in Iraq because Saddam had something to do with 9/11 or because he was stockpiling WMAs? Grow up.

Killing Middle Easterners and imposing your views on them, does nothing for my civil rights, which are, in fact, being infringed upon on US soil, or didn't you notice they're slowly rewriting the Constitution? If anything, it's the US government that is threatening my right to sit behind the keyboard and bitch about it, not the Middle East. Though I don't bash the military, I bash their reason for being where they are. So if you wanna "fight for freedom", Washington D.C. is your target. Because while you fight for oil in a nameless little village half way across the world, your corrupt politicians are slowly taking your country away from you, along with your rights.

You've had Vietnam, Russians had the Afghanistan, then you had Afghanistan, again, with weapons you supplied them to fight Russians less than two decades ago now turned against you, and then Iraq, and you STILL don't learn that it accomplishes nothing, because you're blinded with your marching, stamping your boots, waving the flag and singing "Glory, glory, hallelujah..."

Look at Vietnam war. It would have cost USA LESS money, instead of sending in the troops, of which half a million ended up dead, to buy every Vietnam family a car, a TV and run TV stations pushing American Dream day and night, and just brainwash them over the course of a decade. With young people having the same values as the Westerners. Far less, in lives and in dollars. And it would have worked, instead of having your asses handed to you.

and whose the one choking down copious amount of propoganda as if it was their gay lovers 12 inch cock......LOL...whatever...as you may have missed on the first part of my post...I dont give a fuck what you got to say.

[Sabbathius]

and whose the one choking down copious amount of propoganda as if it was their gay lovers 12 inch cock......LOL...whatever...as you may have missed on the first part of my post...I dont give a fuck what you got to say.

I don't need you to give a fuck about what I have to say. That's the beauty of free speech, which your government is slowly taking away from you. As for gay references, you may be battling latent issues, may want to look into that one, if you find yourself suddenly aroused in a men's locker room or constantly thinking of 12 inch cocks.

Though I admit that's pretty much the stereotype the world has of the US, homophobic spoiled children with nukes, acting unilaterally (meaning they don't care what anyone else says, like you). Though I happen to work closely with the Americans and know they're not, not all of them. Most still have a level head on their shoulders and try to make an honest living. I just wish they'd deal with their moronic government and stop alienating the rest of the world.

[Rourke]

You mean they will fight and die to control the world's oil supply on which the country's entire economy, rich and poor, socialist or fascist, is based on? I don't see US military "defending freedom" in countries from which they don't benefit. I also don't see US invading China or India or North Korea, and those guys are developing weapons of mass destruction, real ones, not imaginary like Iraq, and aren't signatories to non-proliferation treaty. Or do you still believe US military is in Iraq because Saddam had something to do with 9/11 or because he was stockpiling WMAs? Grow up.

Killing Middle Easterners and imposing your views on them, does nothing for my civil rights, which are, in fact, being infringed upon on US soil, or didn't you notice they're slowly rewriting the Constitution? If anything, it's the US government that is threatening my right to sit behind the keyboard and bitch about it, not the Middle East. Though I don't bash the military, I bash their reason for being where they are. So if you wanna "fight for freedom", Washington D.C. is your target. Because while you fight for oil in a nameless little village half way across the world, your corrupt politicians are slowly taking your country away from you, along with your rights.

You've had Vietnam, Russians had the Afghanistan, then you had Afghanistan, again, with weapons you supplied them to fight Russians less than two decades ago now turned against you, and then Iraq, and you STILL don't learn that it accomplishes nothing, because you're blinded with your marching, stamping your boots, waving the flag and singing "Glory, glory, hallelujah..."

Look at Vietnam war. It would have cost USA LESS money, instead of sending in the troops, of which half a million ended up dead, to buy every Vietnam family a car, a TV and run TV stations pushing American Dream day and night, and just brainwash them over the course of a decade. With young people having the same values as the Westerners. Far less, in lives and in dollars. And it would have worked, instead of having your asses handed to you.

Your a fucking moron, you ass. Why don't you use the words YOU and YOUR a few more times like the Presidents called us up at our homes, and we're like
'Uh,,,hey....so I was thinking about invading Iraq? What do you think about it?"

And oh....it's fine to bash America..but oh...doesn;t the world LOVE all our money, and charity, for all those poor fucks in those 3rd world shitholes?
If you think other countries Governments are just as fucked up, your a retard.

You think our soldiers WANT to fight in a war, rather than be home grilling up steaks, and drinking a beer with thier family??

You do know Americans HATE the fact Vietnam happened also, right? My uncle served 2 years in combat there, and killed himself after he got home, cause he was so fucked up from the war. He was treated terribly after he got back stateside.


America was ONCE a great country. Now it's a country full of liberal crying fucks, that can't understand why we need people in our VOLUNTEER military. God I wish we would get invaded. God your a POS.

[nathanpinard]

Well hopefully they don't try to force you to sign their draft form when you hit 18 like they do to every male.

It's not a draft, and it's the law.

[Rourke]

It's not a draft, and it's the law.


Unless we have WW3..the draft won't be an issue. I don't think Canada can take all the pussies growing up in today's generation that will be flooding the borders if a draft is enforced, lol. Good luck with that.

[nathanpinard]

I see threads, and arguements in real life like this everyday. People are having anti-Israel protests, and a whole bunch of other BS is going on.

This is what the muslim extremists want.

[chewbaccasdad]

Heh, the song sucks. I won't go into the politics of it, because that is a task for minds greater than mine.

Still, it's better than the military recruitment ads than in the UK. All they do is tell you about all the stuff you can do in the military that isn't related to fighting, as if warfare is just a sideline they dabble in.

[Rourke]

I see threads, and arguements in real life like this everyday. People are having anti-Israel protests, and a whole bunch of other BS is going on.

This is what the muslim extremists want.

/agreed. But people are pretty dumb to not see what's going on. I can't believe Gaza is surprised Isreal is giving them an ass-kicking finally.

[Rourke]

Heh, the song sucks. I won't go into the politics of it, because that is a task for minds greater than mine.

Still, it's better than the military recruitment ads than in the UK. All they do is tell you about all the stuff you can do in the military that isn't related to fighting, as if warfare is just a sideline they dabble in.

Oh...they used to here in the US too. Then people started crying about getting sent to Iraq, and it made the news. Soldiers over there we're interviewed stating "I joined the Army so I could get an education for free...I didn't want to fight in a war!!!" I lol'd.

[chewbaccasdad]

Oh...they used to here in the US too. Then people started crying about getting sent to Iraq, and it made the news. Soldiers over there we're interviewed stating "I joined the Army so I could get an education for free...I didn't want to fight in a war!!!" I lol'd.

Well you'd have to lol, wouldn't you. I would feel sorry for someone in that position, who had joined the military in peace time and hadn't expected to be called into an international war, but that's what you have to expect if you join the armed forces during peace time. Silly people.

And the GI Bill (not sure if that's it's name) is a fantastic piece of legislation, imho. It's not something that should be milked but should be a just reward for faithfully serving your country.

[Sabbathius]

Lt L.T. Smash: "We've got a three-pronged attack, subliminal, liminal, and super- liminal."

Lisa: "Super-liminal?"

Lt L.T. Smash: "I'll show you. Hey, you! Join the Navy!"

[Kusghuul]

Flower of Scotland's far better.

[Broockle]

Disturbingly the USA is following patterns of many countries pre-dictatorship. All that is needed is a charismatic leader to unite the haters.

omg scary thought, but somehow true.

The song sux to me kinda too.

[Rourke]

omg scary thought, but somehow true.

The song sux to me kinda too.

We're kinda already there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCWX26J1ank


this scares me.

[Sabbathius]

We're kinda already there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCWX26J1ank


this scares me.

Yeah, you're right. Scares the shit out of me.

[Ziegler]

We're kinda already there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCWX26J1ank


this scares me.

Yeah, you're right. Scares the shit out of me.

Why is that? He's the great black hope....he's going to change america!!! I mean come on....he's the antithesis of those evil neocons...he's a liberal, the greatest kind of human being. He's going to cure global warming and pay some welfare goddess's rent in illinois!!!!.........I for one welcome our new overlord and cant wait for the depression to begin.

[chewbaccasdad]

Yeah, you're right. Scares the shit out of me.

Wow, that's really fucking scary.

As much as I like Obama and wonder how he'll do in office, that actually made me feel a little sick.

Aside from involving children in the myriad of complexities that is politics, the lyrics about changing and rearranging the world could almost be described as ominous.

[LordTenacious]

Oh wow, 1 group of people in a nation of 300 million people are taking something too far. Obviously we are fucked!

More knee-jerk reactions pl0x.

[Rourke]

Yeah, you're right. Scares the shit out of me.


Get's worse. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD0-2CSph_A&feature=related

[bluthorn]

Please, expand on the positive aspects of war.

Why don't you ask the veterans of tank regiments from your country that fought during WWII? They might be able to clue you in.

[LordTenacious]

Get's worse. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD0-2CSph_A&feature=relatedWell, I suppose I got what I asked for.

[Rourke]

Oh wow, 1 group of people in a nation of 300 million people are taking something too far. Obviously we are fucked!

More knee-jerk reactions pl0x.


Yeah...well...better pray to fucking god he can do what he promised, lol.

[Rourke]

Well, I suppose I got what I asked for.

you didnt watch it. it's pretty interesting. Just goes to show how stupid people are really. Blindly following someone over false promises, and the color of skin. That's all it really is imo.

We got shafted hard on this last election. Neither choice was good.

[bluthorn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHzSBEVbXtM
I keep seeing this advert whenever I go to the movie theatre in FL. Anyone else seeing it and whats your opinion on it? I think its bordering on facist.
/Discuss!

O_O Holy cripes you'd think they were singing hymns to the Lord God Almighty.

"can we overthrow democracy children?" Yes yes we can :ohno:

[Brother Justin]

hahaha omg!
This is like that team america song, only its not a joke.
wow!
Its funny and scary at the same time.

[Rourke]

hahaha omg!
This is like that team america song, only its not a joke.
wow!
Its funny and scary at the same time.


Yeah..this song made big news here in the US once it came out. A LOT of people we're acting like brainwashed zombies before the election. I donlt think Obama is going to enjoy being President though when he realizes how screwed up the US is right now, lol.

[Sabbathius]

We got shafted hard on this last election. Neither choice was good.

Nah, if you've managed to elect Bush. TWICE. Nothing can shaft you anymore. You've been shafted so much that there's nothing left. You're all unshaftable. Shaftproof. Shaft-resistant to up to 200 meters. And having neither choice being good is your own damn fault for having a two-party system, I know ADD is a bitch, but at least try and have three choices.

[Brother Justin]

Yeah..this song made big news here in the US once it came out. A LOT of people we're acting like brainwashed zombies before the election. I donlt think Obama is going to enjoy being President though when he realizes how screwed up the US is right now, lol.

Big news because its fucked up propaganda?
or big news because people actually buy into it and think its awesome?

[Nevron]

Nah, if you've managed to elect Bush. TWICE. Nothing can shaft you anymore. You've been shafted so much that there's nothing left. You're all unshaftable. Shaftproof. Shaft-resistant to up to 200 meters. And having neither choice being good is your own damn fault for having a two-party system, I know ADD is a bitch, but at least try and have three choices.

I'm not so sure we elected Bush twice. ;)

Unfortunately, the average American doesn't care enough about politics to research outside the parameters of the two notable parties, so the dawning of a third party loses traction quickly. Those of us that do care are caught in a crossfire between corruption and complacency.

[Ziegler]

big news because people actually buy into it and think its awesome?

Actually it was because the evil conservatives were saying how scary it was and were being called racist and evil for thinking such thoughts against our new overlord.

[psychokilla]

i dunno, military is kinda cool although i'll probably never join (24 years old already, but a buddy of mine just joined up like 5months ago same age).

cool factor for being in shape well trained holding a big assault rifle killing baddies, who needs patriotism for motivation? its like the RL version of what half you losers do in video games all day

[bluthorn]

Actually it was because the evil conservatives were saying how scary it was and were being called racist and evil for thinking such thoughts against our new overlord.

Blegh, those evil conservatives. They need a Two Minutes Hate to release all of that rage on Eurasia...

[Nevron]

its like the RL version of what half you losers do in video games all day

Funny and true.

24 isn't too old, not by a long shot. It's also easy to make up for lost time if you apply yourself, promotions can come pretty quick.

[chewbaccasdad]

i dunno, military is kinda cool although i'll probably never join (24 years old already, but a buddy of mine just joined up like 5months ago same age).

cool factor for being in shape well trained holding a big assault rifle killing baddies, who needs patriotism for motivation? its like the RL version of what half you losers do in video games all day

I only play Hello Kitty Island and Pokemon, so I don't think the military has anything to offer me.

[1998altima]

cool factor for being in shape well trained holding a big assault rifle killing baddies, who needs patriotism for motivation? its like the RL version of what half you losers do in video games all day

Wow with that kind of reasoning there is no way I won't join! :lmao:

[Rourke]

I suppose people forget why we have and NEED our military.

If you have already forgotten, I give you one of many out there. People WANT us dead. Period. Let's not forget America is made up of people from all over the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHstQv8C2zQ

I DO LOVE my country.

[outbak]

I suppose people forget why we have and NEED our military.

If you have already forgotten, I give you one of many out there. People WANT us dead. Period. Let's not forget America is made up of people from all over the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHstQv8C2zQ

I DO LOVE my country.

We could start by figuring out why they want us dead? They hate our liberty, prosperity, and just becuase?

Ron Paul fools!

[Ion_StormH]

So don't tell me who's wrong and right
When liberty starts slipping away
And if you ain't gonna fight
Get out of the way

Oh, my dear motherfucking God ... :eek: I think my nation and continent's past are bit too loaded with these shiny words to not let me be completely stunned by this obvious attempt to lure people into waying flags, scream USA and bend themselves over to be fucked by Uncle Sam.

Edit: Oh, 9/11. Seriously, am I the only one who had enough of that crap? Guess what happens around the world each freaking day. But of course, if Western people die its a fucking tragedy even 8 years afterwards. Get over it already.

[Rourke]

Oh, my dear motherfucking God ... :eek: I think my nation and continent's past are bit too loaded with these shiny words to not let me be completely stunned by this obvious attempt to lure people into waying flags, scream USA and bend themselves over to be fucked by Uncle Sam.

Edit: Oh, 9/11. Seriously, am I the only one who had enough of that crap? Guess what happens around the world each freaking day. But of course, if Western people die its a fucking tragedy even 9 years afterwards. Get over it already.

Wow.:bang:

[Ion_StormH]

Wow.:bang:

Jup, you should do this in RL. :) Suprising that my interest is mostly bound to my country, isn't it?

[1998altima]

We could start by figuring out why they want us dead? They hate our liberty, prosperity, and just becuase?

Ron Paul fools!

noes, they hatez us becuz they is muslims an we haves ritez.

If America didn't go around pissing everybody off then they wouldn't have a problem.

And before you step all over me I am an AMERICAN living in Canada. I am sad to see our country in such a low state. To the point where if you criticize anything the government does, you are a "Commie", "UnAmerican" or "Terrorist-Lover".

[Rourke]

noes, they hatez us becuz they is muslims an we haves ritez.

If America didn't go around pissing everybody off then they wouldn't have a problem.

And before you step all over me I am an AMERICAN living in Canada. I am sad to see our country in such a low state. To the point where if you criticize anything the government does, you are a "Commie", "UnAmerican" or "Terrorist-Lover".

So...American citizens go around pissing the world off and we deserved 9/11? And no..i won't "get over it" Holy shit, anyone who thinks that way should be tossed out of this country now.

[Killuminati]

Congratulations lord on your utterly witty and useful reply! What would we do withought you? It would have to be self serve at Mc donalds :(

jesus christ, you're an imbecile.

[Sabbathius]

I suppose people forget why we have and NEED our military.

If you have already forgotten, I give you one of many out there. People WANT us dead. Period. Let's not forget America is made up of people from all over the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHstQv8C2zQ

I DO LOVE my country.

Now go to Youtube again, and this time search for American war atrocities in Korea, torture, etc. US is far from blameless, and did some pretty godawful things.

But when you said "We NEED the military" and linked Youtube, I was actually expecting Monty Python's The Meaning of Life:

"Well, of course, warfare isn't all fun. Right. Stop that! It's all very well to laugh at the Military, but, when one considers the meaning of life, it is a struggle between alternative viewpoints of life itself, and without the ability to defend one's own viewpoint against other perhaps more aggressive ideologies, then reasonableness and moderation could, quite simply, disappear. That is why we'll always need an army, and may God strike me down were it to be otherwise. *BLAM*"

[1998altima]

So...American citizens go around pissing the world off and we deserved 9/11? And no..i won't "get over it" Holy shit, anyone who thinks that way should be tossed out of this country now.

Well can you at least answer me why we're not searching for Osama since he was the one who is did all of this shit. Aren't you a little pissed off about that because I know I am.

[Rourke]

Now go to Youtube again, and this time search for American war atrocities in Korea, torture, etc. US is far from blameless, and did some pretty godawful things.


I see. So Islamic Extremists trained, and planned 9/11 for things that happened during the Korean War? I see. So all those people in the WTC, people who traveled to New York FROM OTHER COUNTRIES to visit, and we're killed also are to be held accountable, as are our citizens who have no powers in deciding military actions? Is that about right?

[PrimalSign]

So...American citizens go around pissing the world off and we deserved 9/11? And no..i won't "get over it" Holy shit, anyone who thinks that way should be tossed out of this country now.

Thank you for proving his point.

America "deserved" 9/11 in the same way people deserve getting run over for crossing the tracks when a train is coming.

[Rourke]

Well can you at least answer me why we're not searching for Osama since he was the one who is did all of this shit. Aren't you a little pissed off about that because I know I am.


Yup. VERY. But...another is right behind him anyways. It's never gonna end. I think the worst is yet to come. It's not like America is the ONLY target anyways. Most of Europe is too.

[Rourke]

Thank you for proving his point.

America "deserved" 9/11 in the same way people deserve getting run over for crossing the tracks when a train is coming.


That is a retarded analogy if I have ever seen one. So people going to work, is the same thing as jumping in front of a train now? Wow...good point..I stand corrected.

[Ion_StormH]

So...American citizens go around pissing the world off and we deserved 9/11? And no..i won't "get over it" Holy shit, anyone who thinks that way should be tossed out of this country now.

So, what's this great tragedy about I ask you? 5,000 people dead, fine - That's a tragedy for each individual family. They will never get over it and I wouldn't if it would've hit me personally. I do not think that any victim ever deserved their death.

What did the average Afghan do though to deserve a fully-mined nation or a 40-years civil war, then Taliban rule and again war? What did the average Iraqi do to be bombed to bits and peaces because up to now, there is no full security? What did the average Israeli do to have to live in fear of hostile actions against its nation each day?

Nothing. But, why is it so shocking that what happened all around the world each day, now happens to the US?

What you see here is that the historic US inviolability was not only shaken up as it was done in the Cuban crisis of 1962, but was broken up with a direct attack. Directly to 9/11, there's the following operations which are connected with it as well, enhancing the symbolism of it.

The tragedy though, is only harsh for the US. Even for its closest allies, its beginning to fade into something slightly more important, but certainly not far more gruesome than other tragedies which happen each and every day.

As a nation, it's obvious that this is traumatic to you, but as a non-American, I do vomit when having to watch a video with cheesy music dealing with the death of Liberty while portraying a crying Eagle. Understand that: I and many others do not see 9/11 as such a big thing as you do, because I am not American.

This is a harsh truth but you'll have to come to terms with it.

[PrimalSign]

That is a retarded analogy if I have ever seen one. So people going to work, is the same thing as jumping in front of a train now? Wow...good point..I stand corrected.

Jesus Christ. L2FuckingHistory.

[Sabbathius]

I see. So Islamic Extremists trained, and planned 9/11 for things that happened during the Korean War? I see. So all those people in the WTC, people who traveled to New York FROM OTHER COUNTRIES to visit, and we're killed also are to be held accountable, as are our citizens who have no powers in deciding military actions? Is that about right?

No, it means you're all cut from the same cloth. Islamic extremists and Christian extremists and anyone else who does violence under false pretenses. For Islam it is misrepresentation of Koran. For US, it is a misrepresentation of "we fight for freedom", I bet all those hundreds of thousands of civilians that died since it started are really free now.

And as for citizens not deciding military actions, you elect your leader, who makes the decisions. The military doesn't move into another country without the Presidential say-so. YOU, the people, elected that president. YOU, the people, are responsible for overseeing that your government does its job. YOU, the people, and you alone, not Ali Baba or Mao Jong, are responsible for policing your government, and the moment it gets out of line and becomes a dictatorship or not representative of the will of the people, remove it from office. YOU are responsible for his actions. YOU also form the said military, VOLUNTARILY. So who is to blame except the people? So don't give me that nonsense about "we are not responsible for what military does", because the military is composed from your own people, ordered about by the representative of your choice, which you can remove if you feel he is gone around the bend or flat out lied to you. Did they find those WMDs yet?

[Atnas]

Wow, that's a pretty blunt propaganda video! I'm not sure what NASCAR has to do with it though since it's such a retarded sport.

[Delwyn]

They'd have probably shot up that kid. He deserved it. Terrorist football.

[Atnas]

They'd have probably shot up that kid. He deserved it. Terrorist football.

The football was probably a bomb! Didn't you see how he kicked it out in front of them?

[Delwyn]

The football was probably a bomb! Didn't you see how he kicked it out in front of them?

Damn fucking terrorists!! Luckily Joe Beefcake is there to kick it right the fuck back at them before it explodes in their faces.

[Rourke]

So, what's this great tragedy about I ask you? 5,000 people dead, fine - That's a tragedy for each individual family. They will never get over it and I wouldn't if it would've hit me personally. I do not think that any victim ever deserved their death.

What did the average Afghan do though to deserve a fully-mined nation or a 40-years civil war, then Taliban rule and again war? What did the average Iraqi do to be bombed to bits and peaces because up to now, there is no full security? What did the average Israeli do to have to live in fear of hostile actions against its nation each day?

Nothing. But, why is it so shocking that what happened all around the world each day, now happens to the US?

What you see here is that the historic US inviolability was not only shaken up as it was done in the Cuban crisis of 1962, but was broken up with a direct attack. Directly to 9/11, there's the following Operations which are connected with it as well, probably enhancing the symbolism of it.

As a nation, it's obvious that this is traumatic to you, but as a non-American, I do vomit when having to watch a video with cheesy music. Understand that: I and many others do not see 9/11 as such a big thing as you do, because I am not American.

This is a harsh truth but you'll have to come to terms with it.

Saddam killed about what? 100,000 of his OWN people? How about his sons and thier torture rooms?

Isreal is our ally, and I am not sure where your going with that one, but obviously they can kick ass.

Afganistan is, was, and will always be a herion-riddled shitpot, so who cares. Obama is send more troops there anyways after we leave Iraq. You cry for them now or later, gonna be a while.

The American citizen has the great pleasure of sitting by and watching our Government make terrible desicions, and then having dick's like you blame the citizens like we're the bad guys, lol. EVEN THOUGH American are from all parts of the world, who move here for a better life.

The harsh truth is that I DON'T have to come to terms with ANYTHING you say or think. Since I already know your another American hater....you can just get in a very long line of jealous pricks. :D

I know America sends money, troops, supplies ALL OVER the world for countries in crisis all the time. We care alot about our friends, and prove it daily. Personally, I think we should pull it all back, and lock this country down for 20 years.

[Rourke]

And as for citizens not deciding military actions, you elect your leader, who makes the decisions. The military doesn't move into another country without the Presidential say-so. YOU, the people, elected that president. YOU, the people, are responsible for overseeing that your government does its job. YOU, the people, and you alone, not Ali Baba or Mao Jong, are responsible for policing your government, and the moment it gets out of line and becomes a dictatorship or not representative of the will of the people, remove it from office. YOU are responsible for his actions. YOU also form the said military, VOLUNTARILY. So who is to blame except the people? So don't give me that nonsense about "we are not responsible for what military does", because the military is composed from your own people, ordered about by the representative of your choice, which you can remove if you feel he is gone around the bend or flat out lied to you. Did they find those WMDs yet?

Do you actually believe your own horseshit? You REALLY believe US citizens, half of which are pussies, and welfare addicts give a damn what happens? Maybe ONCE we had that power you speak of...but those days are long gone friend. GONE.

Removing a leader is pretty impossible. Hell Illinois can't even impeach a corrupt Governer.

[Drake Whitewood]

Well can you at least answer me why we're not searching for Osama since he was the one who is did all of this shit. Aren't you a little pissed off about that because I know I am.

How do you know we're not?

Did the media tell you?

( lol )

[Rourke]

How do you know we're not?

Did the media tell you?

( lol )

CNNz. No Bias. No Bull.

[1998altima]

Removing a leader is pretty impossible.

That is a problem seeing how it is a right we are granted by the constitution.

See here in Canada the people can actually act on their right to kick politicians out of office. Unfortunately I can't do a damn thing because I am still American citizen (Which I will never give up mind you). We might be getting a coalition government because nobody has confidence in the current government.

[Drake Whitewood]

CNNz. No Bias. No Bull.

I love it when dipshits spout that out.

WHY ARENTS WE LOOKING FOR OSAMAS?!?

Well can you at least answer me why we're not searching for Osama since he was the one who is did all of this shit. Aren't you a little pissed off about that because I know I am.


Of course we're looking for Osama.

If you had an iota of intelligence in that head of yours, Your question SHOULD be "Why with all the money we spend on our department of defense, foriegn intelligence agencies, and so-forth, haven't we FOUND Osama yet?"

And the answer is, The dude has really great OPSEC. If he'd have slipped up in the past 8 years, we would have caught him. Our dudes are good, but can only catch peeps when they leave some kind of trail. Soon as we prefect the clairvoyant super soldiers the aliens are helping us with, we'll find him.

Granted, the question still has an answer that's contrary to the intent of asking it, but it's at least more based in reality.

[Rourke]

That is a problem seeing how it is a right we are granted by the constitution.

See here in Canada the people can actually act on their right to kick politicians out of office. Unfortunately I can't do a damn thing because I am still American citizen (Which I will never give up mind you). We might be getting a coalition government because nobody has confidence in the current government.

I lived in Maine for years, and I know for a FACT Canada is JUST as fucked up as the US. They have had thier fair share of retard PM's. Stop it..for fucks sake...Canada has coins called Looney's and Tooney's for christ's sake. Stop.

[Rourke]

I love it when dipshits spout that out.

WHY ARENTS WE LOOKING FOR OSAMAS?!?




We would know if they we're because our Spec Op's guys need to report to the news media before they do anything so we can announce it to the world.

[Ziegler]

Yup. VERY. But...another is right behind him anyways. It's never gonna end. I think the worst is yet to come. It's not like America is the ONLY target anyways. Most of Europe is too.


No NO...any attacks in europe were soley the responsibility of america, europe has done nothing at all to ever have pissed off anybody at all in the middel east...only america is responsible for all the evils in the world. The sooner you realize that if you were born in america, you are the sole cause of the all the problems in the world and should kill yourself....you and the world will be a much better place.


As a nation, it's obvious that this is traumatic to you, but as a non-American, I do vomit when having to watch a video with cheesy music dealing with the death of Liberty while portraying a crying Eagle. Understand that: I and many others do not see 9/11 as such a big thing as you do, because I am not American.

This is a harsh truth but you'll have to come to terms with it.

I, for one, never for an instant thought othewise. You people were hating on america ever since the end of WW2. What gets me is the reluctance of american media to have shown all you fucks actually celebrating the attack across the world.

No, it means you're all cut from the same cloth. Islamic extremists and Christian extremists and anyone else who does violence under false pretenses. For Islam it is misrepresentation of Koran. For US, it is a misrepresentation of "we fight for freedom", I bet all those hundreds of thousands of civilians that died since it started are really free now.

And as for citizens not deciding military actions, you elect your leader, who makes the decisions. The military doesn't move into another country without the Presidential say-so. YOU, the people, elected that president. YOU, the people, are responsible for overseeing that your government does its job. YOU, the people, and you alone, not Ali Baba or Mao Jong, are responsible for policing your government, and the moment it gets out of line and becomes a dictatorship or not representative of the will of the people, remove it from office. YOU are responsible for his actions. YOU also form the said military, VOLUNTARILY. So who is to blame except the people? So don't give me that nonsense about "we are not responsible for what military does", because the military is composed from your own people, ordered about by the representative of your choice, which you can remove if you feel he is gone around the bend or flat out lied to you. Did they find those WMDs yet?

Let us see...fighter jets ...I'd call them WMD's...couple dozen buried in the sand. Now, if they can bury fighter jets in the sand and the only way we were able to find them is completely by accident......how hard would it be to bury some 55 gallon drums...hell...look where Sadaam was found...hiding in a hole. Or the general that nobody would listen to, stating he flew sorties into syria from Iraq delivering materials out of it to syria....
And regardless, Sadaam acted like he had them....he bluffed and got called on it and lost. I guess most of you didnt live during the 90's and the nightly violations of the no fly zone, failure to comply with inspections for almost a decade.

And yeah...cut from the same cloth...so got a link to that footage of christians sawing off the head of journalists to post on the web?
no? hmmm....ok...
How about a link to all those christians dancing in the streets and rejoicing at at the death of muslims?
no? hmm...ok
How about a link to all those christians rioting because someone made a joke about jesus?
no?hmm...ok....so really...they arent anything alike....

And just so we're clear...Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, they had everything to do with thumbing their nose at a country that was really pissed off and not in the mood to take any shit.

[1998altima]

I lived in Maine for years, and I know for a FACT Canada is JUST as fucked up as the US. They have had thier fair share of retard PM's. Stop it..for fucks sake...Canada has coins called Looney's and Tooney's for christ's sake. Stop.

How are they just as fucked up. Their economy is better at the current moment (not much but better). They aren't at war with anybody. They have never had a PM as retarded G. W. Bush. Well yeah I suppose they are just as fucked up.

We would know if they we're because our Spec Op's guys need to report to the news media before they do anything so we can announce it to the world.

Fuck! The people want to know that we are still looking for him. That's it, it could be a simple blurb in the news saying "We are still hard at work trying to find Osama." Is that too much to ask?

[Drake Whitewood]

Fuck! The people want to know that we are still looking for him. That's it, it could be a simple blurb in the news saying "We are still hard at work trying to find Osama." Is that too much to ask?

Yes.

Now shut the hell up. You'll tip him off.

I'm sure as shit he gets CNN Fox and MSNBC. I'd rather he think we're not looking anymore. He'll fuck up eventually. And then comes the hellfire(s)

lol btw

[Rourke]

Fuck! The people want to know that we are still looking for him. That's it, it could be a simple blurb in the news saying "We are still hard at work trying to find Osama." Is that too much to ask?


Why would YOU care..your in Canada, and didn't we deserve what he did? You should go help him hide. Plus...i bet he is dead tbh.

[Tdog]

OSAMAS is dead.

He was killed years ago when this first started.

America has to have a "face" for evil and Osama is just that the face of evil. The American government will not admit he is dead because they would lose the support of the people.

Why do you think we only have heard voice recordings for years? Because voice recordings are easy to fake.

Why are all the "new" video's of Osama old with new voice overs behind them?

Osama is dead and has been dead for years. We killed him during the first year of this war.


Also every nation on earth is just as fucked up as America is. Don't kid yourself into thinking that America is the only fucked up nation on this planet. Yes America has its problems but they are nothing we cannot fix given the right leadership which has been the issue for more years then I have been alive.

America is an idea, a concept. America is not what our government does nor what its policy's are. America is about the people, it always has been and always will be. We American's have forgotten about that. We American's have become lazy and we just don't care anymore. We are sick of being made the bad guy for everything that happens in this fucked up world.

I just don't understand how anyone could hate America. America does alot of good in this world. America has helped every nation on this earth at one time or another. Yet those nations repay America by turn their back on the US when we need them.

I am willing to bet anything that you could not go though your daily life without one thing that America provide you. Technology and Medicine are the first two things to come to mind.

America is not perfect and you will never hear a true America say other wise but America is one of the best nations on earth. America is the land of the free and the home of the brave. In America anyone can become anything.

IN AMERICA ANYONE CAN BECOME ANYTHING. PERIOD. That is what makes America so great.

[Rourke]

No NO...any attacks in europe were soley the responsibility of america, europe has done nothing at all to ever have pissed off anybody at all in the middel east...only america is responsible for all the evils in the world. The sooner you realize that if you were born in america, you are the sole cause of the all the problems in the world and should kill yourself....you and the world will be a much better place.

Yeah...that's pretty much true


I, for one, never for an instant thought othewise. You people were hating on america ever since the end of WW2. What gets me is the reluctance of american media to have shown all you fucks actually celebrating the attack across the world.

I would LOVE to see this. People really need to wake up and see how shitty our "allies" really are.


Let us see...fighter jets ...I'd call them WMD's...couple dozen buried in the sand. Now, if they can bury fighter jets in the sand and the only way we were able to find them is completely by accident......how hard would it be to bury some 55 gallon drums...hell...look where Sadaam was found...hiding in a hole. Or the general that nobody would listen to, stating he flew sorties into syria from Iraq delivering materials out of it to syria....
And regardless, Sadaam acted like he had them....he bluffed and got called on it and lost. I guess most of you didnt live during the 90's and the nightly violations of the no fly zone, failure to comply with inspections for almost a decade.

And yeah...cut from the same cloth...so got a link to that footage of christians sawing off the head of journalists to post on the web?
no? hmmm....ok...
How about a link to all those christians dancing in the streets and rejoicing at at the death of muslims?
no? hmm...ok
How about a link to all those christians rioting because someone made a joke about jesus?
no?hmm...ok....so really...they arent anything alike....

And just so we're clear...Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, they had everything to do with thumbing their nose at a country that was really pissed off and not in the mood to take any shit.

This is just /win.

[1998altima]

Yes.

Now shut the hell up. You'll tip him off.

I'm sure as shit he gets CNN Fox and MSNBC. I'd rather he think we're not looking anymore. He'll fuck up eventually. And then comes the hellfire(s)

lol btw

Maybe he wants us to think that he's not watching when he really is watching so that we can think that he isn't watching and fuck up.

/tinfoil

You know how stupid you sound right now.

[Drake Whitewood]

OSAMAS is dead.

He was killed years ago when this first started.

America has to have a "face" for evil and Osama is just that the face of evil. The American government will not admit he is dead because they would lose the support of the people.

Why do you think we only have heard voice recordings for years? Because voice recordings are easy to fake.

Why are all the "new" video's of Osama old with new voice overs behind them?

Osama is dead and has been dead for years. We killed him during the first year of this war.


Interesting assertion actually.

I disagree however.

Too many people in on a secret, and it's not a secret anymore. Just look how much shit gets leaked to the press. Something that juicy would attract a legion of ALCU lawyers to the whistleblower's defense, book deals, public appearances, etc. It's simply not not true, because secrets just aren't secrets anymore. (Although peeps LOVE the whole conspiracy theory thing)

Also, the answer to why is it only voice? Because the dude is really smart, and the Mujahdeen don't need anything more to keep their fervor going. It's literally fucking amazing what you can derive out of a video, so if this guy had any sense, he'd make as few of them as absolutely possible. Suprise, that's what he's done.

[Tdog]

How are they just as fucked up. Their economy is better at the current moment (not much but better). They aren't at war with anybody. They have never had a PM as retarded G. W. Bush. Well yeah I suppose they are just as fucked up.



Fuck! The people want to know that we are still looking for him. That's it, it could be a simple blurb in the news saying "We are still hard at work trying to find Osama." Is that too much to ask?

Wake up. Canada is fighting over in Afghanistan with the UN and the US. Canada relies a lot on the US for its economy. You do understand that right?

You understand that as the US declines that the world declines with it? You understand that America is the center of the international economy?

Osama is dead, has been dead for years. Our government just needs a face to put on evil.

What do you think will happen in Canada when the American big 3 go under? You do understand that Canada relies on the Big 3 as well right?

Its funny that some of you do not understand the world that we live in. Like it or not America is the center of the international economy.

[Ziegler]

Fuck! The people want to know that we are still looking for him. That's it, it could be a simple blurb in the news saying "We are still hard at work trying to find Osama." Is that too much to ask?

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-terror9-2009jan09,0,3063127.story


No progress at all.

[1998altima]

Also every nation on earth is just as fucked up as America is.



If only more Americans knew this. I have come to terms with it and others should too.

[Tdog]

Interesting assertion actually.

I disagree however.

Too many people in on a secret, and it's not a secret anymore. Just look how much shit gets leaked to the press. Something that juicy would attract a legion of ALCU lawyers to the whistleblower's defense, book deals, public appearances, etc. It's simply not not true, because secrets just aren't secrets anymore. (Although peeps LOVE the whole conspiracy theory thing)

Also, the answer to why is it only voice? Because the dude is really smart, and the Mujahdeen don't need anything more to keep their fervor going. It's literally fucking amazing what you can derive out of a video, so if this guy had any sense, he'd make as few of them as absolutely possible. Suprise, that's what he's done.

See I believe that only our special forces have the knowledge that he is really dead. I do not believe that anyone outside of the special forces community has any idea. The one thing about the special forces community is that their are no leaks.

[Drake Whitewood]

If only more Americans knew this. I have come to terms with it and others should too.

It's easier to point fingers at the bigger example. And more fun too. When the "World Police" role eventually falls to China, I'm sure it will be "our" fault too.

[Tdog]

If only more Americans knew this. I have come to terms with it and others should too.

I am American. I am proud to be an American. I will be proud to be an American till the day I die.

I also understand reality. The reality is that just like every major empire in history America will come to an end one day. America is just like the roman empire. A Super power that will bite off more then it can handle internationally at the same time as an internal power struggle.

[1998altima]

I am American. I am proud to be an American. I will be proud to be an American till the day I die.


So am I. What the fuck does that have to do with anything.

It's easier to point fingers at the bigger example. And more fun too. When the "World Police" role eventually falls to China, I'm sure it will be "our" fault too.

I can't wait for that to happen. But I will not be saying it is our fault at all it will become China's fault.

[Drake Whitewood]

See I believe that only our special forces have the knowledge that he is really dead. I do not believe that anyone outside of the special forces community has any idea. The one thing about the special forces community is that their are no leaks.

This community you speak of is not as airtight as some people believe. Trust me (Granted I'm just a random forumfaller) when I tell yah, we'd know if it were true. There'd be nothing better as a propaganda machine then stringing him up for all to see. True he'd be martyr'd in the eyes of the Mujahadeen, but a martyr cannot continue to recruit. And seeing your idol destroyed, well... that has a crushing effect on most peeps.

And there's too much of America that was firmly against the Bush administration (Dont think that just because they're Military or Govt employee's they blindly swallow the kool-aid of whoever's in office. It's simply not true) to even consider the idea that at least one of the people that would have had to have been in on something like this wouldnt have spoken out about it. Especially when there was so much potential personal gain to be had.

[Rourke]

See I believe that only our special forces have the knowledge that he is really dead. I do not believe that anyone outside of the special forces community has any idea. The one thing about the special forces community is that their are no leaks.

It's not so far-fetched really. Spec-Ops are scary people. 10 of them could prolly kill 100 Afgan rebels. Guys are like ninjas, lol. It's quite possible publicy announcing and provong Osama is dead, may further increase terrorist attacks too.

[1998altima]

It's not so far-fetched really. Spec-Ops are scary people. 10 of them could prolly kill 100 Afgan rebels. Guys are like ninjas, lol. It's quite possible publicy announcing and provong Osama is dead, may further increase terrorist attacks too.

True we can't rule out the option of him being dead. But why would the terrorist attacks increase? I don't know if his death would really change anything for the terrorists, after so long.

[Drake Whitewood]

It's not so far-fetched really. Spec-Ops are scary people. 10 of them could prolly kill 100 Afgan rebels. Guys are like ninjas, lol. It's quite possible publicy announcing and provong Osama is dead, may further increase terrorist attacks too.

The ground pounders aren't what you gotta worry about. It's the Ivy league beauracrat-warriors

Those 10 Guys report to a Squad NCOIC. Who reports to a Junior officer. Who reports to a field grade officer. Who reports to usually a higher level field grade officer. Who reports to a flag level officer.

Not to mention every single person who helped handle and facilitate the information being passed from each level to the next.

Those 10 guys, turn in to 100 very quickly. And only maybe 13-15 of them have the whole Spec Ops "If this gets out, our cover is blown and we die" mentality.

Someone would leak.

[Tdog]

This community you speak of is not as airtight as some people believe. Trust me (Granted I'm just a random forumfaller) when I tell yah, we'd know if it were true. There'd be nothing better as a propaganda machine then stringing him up for all to see. True he'd be martyr'd in the eyes of the Mujahadeen, but a martyr cannot continue to recruit. And seeing your idol destroyed, well... that has a crushing effect on most peeps.

And there's too much of America that was firmly against the Bush administration (Dont think that just because they're Military or Govt employee's they blindly swallow the kool-aid of whoever's in office. It's simply not true) to even consider the idea that at least one of the people that would have had to have been in on something like this wouldnt have spoken out about it. Especially when there was so much potential personal gain to be had.

See that is my point exactly. If we make him a martyr'd then he wins. His followers will have a propaganda machine to recruit. I honestly believe he is dead and nobody outside the special forces community knows for sure.

The only problem with this theory is why his people have not come out and said his is dead and the only reason that I can think of is that they do not want to have the intern power struggle that his death would create amongst their leadership.

Again I am just your average American so I have no clue what I am talking about. I just cannot accept the fact that the greatest Military on earth could not find a single guy. Just does not seem possible.

[Drake Whitewood]

See that is my point exactly. If we make him a martyr'd then he wins. His followers will have a propaganda machine to recruit. I honestly believe he is dead and nobody outside the special forces community knows for sure.

The only problem with this theory is why his people have not come out and said his is dead and the only reason that I can think of is that they do not want to have the intern power struggle that his death would create amongst their leadership.

Again I am just your average American so I have no clue what I am talking about. I just cannot accept the fact that the greatest Military on earth could not find a single guy. Just does not seem possible.

You can only follow a trail if there's one to follow. If there's not, I dont care how good you are. He'll fuck up eventually. And our boys and girls will be there when he does to make him pay :)

[jonyak]

Wake up. Canada is fighting over in Afghanistan with the UN and the US. Canada relies a lot on the US for its economy. You do understand that right?

You understand that as the US declines that the world declines with it? You understand that America is the center of the international economy?

Osama is dead, has been dead for years. Our government just needs a face to put on evil.

What do you think will happen in Canada when the American big 3 go under? You do understand that Canada relies on the Big 3 as well right?

Its funny that some of you do not understand the world that we live in. Like it or not America is the center of the international economy.

thats a very USA centric view.

[Rourke]

The ground pounders aren't what you gotta worry about. It's the Ivy league beauracrat-warriors

Those 10 Guys report to a Squad NCOIC. Who reports to a Junior officer. Who reports to a field grade officer. Who reports to usually a higher level field grade officer. Who reports to a flag level officer.

Not to mention every single person who helped handle and facilitate the information being passed from each level to the next.

Those 10 guys, turn in to 100 very quickly. And only maybe 13-15 of them have the whole Spec Ops "If this gets out, our cover is blown and we die" mentality.

Someone would leak.

Maybe. Ethan Hunt would never tell though. EVER.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptkcin-kLGY&feature=related

[Tdog]

You can only follow a trail if there's one to follow. If there's not, I dont care how good you are. He'll fuck up eventually. And our boys and girls will be there when he does to make him pay :)

Personally I think he should be tired to a tree in central park and then every New Yorker gets to punch him once. I think that would be a fair punishment.

But I also think that we should air drop our death roll inmates in Afghanistan and let them have their fun with the terrorists.

[Tdog]

thats a very USA centric view.

Yes it is but it does not make it any less true.


Think about your daily life and then tell me that you don't use anything that American invented or created. I don't care what country you live in, America has helped your country out at one time or another but people forget the good things America has done because its more fun and entertaining to talk about the bad things we have done.

[Rourke]

True we can't rule out the option of him being dead. But why would the terrorist attacks increase? I don't know if his death would really change anything for the terrorists, after so long.

What should scare you, is how long sleeper cells stay dormant for, and just how many there are in the US, and Europe, just waiting.

9/11 took YEARS to plan, and god knows what else they have in store. I heard a report once that they believe up to 11,000 people in the US are part of sleeper cells. 11k??!!

God Forbid one of these guys sets off a dirty bomb in London, or Paris, or Boston. 9/11 will seem like a boo-boo compared to something like that.

[Drake Whitewood]

Yes it is but it does not make it any less true.


Think about your daily life and then tell me that you don't use anything that American invented or created. I don't care what country you live in, America has helped your country out at one time or another but people forget the good things America has done because its more fun and entertaining to talk about the bad things we have done.

Sex sells, Gwen.

Sex sells.

[Tdog]

What should scare you, is how long sleeper cells stay dormant for, and just how many there are in the US, and Europe, just waiting.

9/11 took YEARS to plan, and god knows what else they have in store. I heard a report once that they believe up to 11,000 people in the US are part of sleeper cells. 11k??!!

God Forbid one of these guys sets off a dirty bomb in London, or Paris, or Boston. 9/11 will seem like a boo-boo compared to something like that.

God Forbid that happens because America would use its full military power to find those responsible and I do mean our full including Nuclear.

[Nevron]

The ground pounders aren't what you gotta worry about. It's the Ivy league beauracrat-warriors

Those 10 Guys report to a Squad NCOIC. Who reports to a Junior officer. Who reports to a field grade officer. Who reports to usually a higher level field grade officer. Who reports to a flag level officer.

Not to mention every single person who helped handle and facilitate the information being passed from each level to the next.

Those 10 guys, turn in to 100 very quickly. And only maybe 13-15 of them have the whole Spec Ops "If this gets out, our cover is blown and we die" mentality.

Someone would leak.

Being an intelligence analyst in the military myself, sensitive information doesn't exactly flow quite like that. If something needs kept quiet, it can be kept quiet.

I'm not gonna go into detail, and I don't expect you to take my word for it; but like I said if something needs kept quite and close-hold, it can and most likely will be.

[Drake Whitewood]

Being an intelligence analyst in the military myself, sensitive information doesn't exactly flow quite like that. If something needs kept quiet, it can be kept quiet. Remember the Hezbollah guy that was caught in Iraq? I was over there at the time, and I was in a cell that tracked Shi'a/JAM related targets and Iranian surrogates. We kept the capture of the Hezbollah guy close-hold until the go ahead was given to make it public.

I'm not gonna go into detail, and I don't expect you to take my word for it; but like I said if something needs kept quite and close-hold, it can and most likely will be.

Respect Nev

But shut the hell up.

Thanks.

:)

[1998altima]

What should scare you, is how long sleeper cells stay dormant for, and just how many there are in the US, and Europe, just waiting.

9/11 took YEARS to plan, and god knows what else they have in store. I heard a report once that they believe up to 11,000 people in the US are part of sleeper cells. 11k??!!

God Forbid one of these guys sets off a dirty bomb in London, or Paris, or Boston. 9/11 will seem like a boo-boo compared to something like that.

Now without turning this into a "Loose Change" conspiracy thread, does anybody think that the terrorists planted bombs inside of the Twin Towers?

[Drake Whitewood]

Now without turning this into a "Loose Change" conspiracy thread, does anybody think that the terrorists planted bombs inside of the Twin Towers?

No.

[Rourke]

*studio edit.

[Rourke]

Now without turning this into a "Loose Change" conspiracy thread, does anybody think that the terrorists planted bombs inside of the Twin Towers?

no way. Heat>metal.

[Rourke]

Being an intelligence analyst in the military myself, sensitive information doesn't exactly flow quite like that. If something needs kept quiet, it can be kept quiet.

I'm not gonna go into detail, and I don't expect you to take my word for it; but like I said if something needs kept quite and close-hold, it can and most likely will be.

In that regards.....the Steath Bomber was kept under wraps since the late 70's I believe....it was amazing how many people had to keep quiet over this.

[shphoenixgr]

no way. Heat>metal.

actually it depends. sometimes heat>metal, other times metal>heat. FACT.

as of all the rantings here, both pro-usa and anti-usa, the truth as always lies somewhere in between.

also if most american citizens believe that most non-americans are happy with 9/11 then they are idiots. but that doesn't change the fact that they should have expected it. it was ugly, it was shit, it was a tragedy, but it was no less than expected. other countries have to face much, much worse and many times usa is to blame for that. If you never let it go though it can only be used as a leverage AGAINST them by politicians (which all around the world they are corrupted, you're not the exception)

[Drake Whitewood]

In that regards.....the Steath Bomber was kept under wraps since the late 70's I believe....it was amazing how many people had to keep quiet over this.

Different generation, and the advent of the INSTANTENOUS INFORMATION the internet (A Series of Tubes) provides wasn't available yet.

[Warhawk]

I think its bordering on facist.
/Discuss!

a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

America is none of that

[Rourke]

actually it depends. sometimes heat>metal, other times metal>heat. FACT.

as of all the rantings here, both pro-usa and anti-usa, the truth as always lies somewhere in between.

also if most american citizens believe that most non-americans are happy with 9/11 then they are idiots. but that doesn't change the fact that they should have expected it. it was ugly, it was shit, it was a tragedy, but it was no less than expected. other countries have to face much, much worse and many times usa is to blame for that. If you never let it go though it can only be used as a leverage AGAINST them by politicians (which all around the world they are corrupted, you're not the exception)


I'm pretty sure in 2001, the average joe wan't "expecting" to have our airliners flown into the Twin Towers man. I doubt the Scots we're expecting an Airliner to crash in Lockerbee either, so on and so forth. People didn't use to worry about this shit. As a gereral rule, except in some very bad cases...civilians were left out of the war equation. (plz don't point out the obvious either.)

Now of course...we basically have civilians killing civilians. Look at the suicide bombers in Iraq, and other places, blowing up Markets, Clubs, attacking hotels?? I mean come on....such cheap attacks on defensless people in the name of Islam?? I don't think Islam was all about that when it was created.

Maybe it's just me...but it feels like we are on the brink of WW3 sometimes.

[Rourke]

Different generation, and the advent of the INSTANTENOUS INFORMATION the internet (A Series of Tubes) provides wasn't available yet.

Yes they we're. http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventions/internet.htm


"The design of the Internet was done in 1973 and published in 1974. There ensued about 10 years of hard work, resulting in the roll out of Internet in 1983. Prior to that, a number of demonstrations were made of the technology - such as the first three-network interconnection demonstrated in November 1977 linking SATNET, PRNET and ARPANET in a path leading from Menlo Park, CA to University College London and back to USC/ISI in Marina del Rey, CA." . - Vinton Cerf explains the timing:

[1998altima]

Maybe it's just me...but it feels like we are on the brink of WW3 sometimes.

That's funny you say that because someone I know thinks that Israel and Palestine are beginning The Battle of Armageddon.

[Drake Whitewood]

That's funny you say that because someone I know thinks that Israel and Palestine are beginning The Battle of Armageddon.

Are you inferring Musilms are inherently evil, and servants of the beast?

[1998altima]

Are you inferring Musilms are inherently evil, and servants of the beast?

I'm not inferring it my roommate is. He is quite heavy on the religious stuff though.

[Drake Whitewood]

IF YOU WONT I WILL!@$!

Seriously, the whole Revelations thing is a bit played out.

We've made every historical figure we don't like into the antiChrist. I've heard that particular book was written to be critical of Ceasar Nero. Which actually sounds quite plausable in the grand scheme of things.

[Warhawk]

Are you inferring Musilms are inherently evil, and servants of the beast?

It is the ONLY “religion” in the world that outright teaches intolerance, hate and genocide in the name of the “Lord” (with the exception of Satanism).

[Rourke]

It is the ONLY “religion” in the world that outright teaches intolerance, hate and genocide in the name of the “Lord” (with the exception of Satanism).


Well..NOW...The Crusades were kinda of an ugly mark back in the day, lol. Hey...can't win em all though..live and learn I say.

[jonyak]

It is the ONLY “religion” in the world that outright teaches intolerance, hate and genocide in the name of the “Lord” (with the exception of Satanism).

christians have been doing exactly that for centuries...

[Drake Whitewood]

Wasn't this thread about American Propaganda?

Yaknow what I liked?

The old school 20's thru 40's war propaganda. That stuff was awesome.

For Instance: http://theschaefercollection.com/images/webphotos/lusitania.jpg

[Ziegler]

christians have been doing exactly that for centuries...

Maybe the good reverend Jerimiah Wright has been.

But pretty sure that there hasnt been a pope that called for the execution of the heretics....for ..oh I dont...at least a century or two.

But I am pretty sure that the mainstream christian religion hasnt openly condoned killing unbelievers for quite some time...but hey...if you got videos of the pope calling for another series of crusades or Billy grahm calling for the deaths of the heretics....I'd like to see them...just throw a link right on up here on forumfall.

Otherwise...yer just a stupid hater cause you think it's cool.

[Warhawk]

christians have been doing exactly that for centuries...

Does it do this, too...from the words of Islam:

(not sure why this was missing from my initial reply, i may have not hit "save")

Sura 47:…..those who disbelieve are following falsehood…if you encounter those who disbelieve, you may strike the necks….those who disbelieve incur misery.

Book of Al-Anfal, verse 12 ( 8:12) - “I (Allah) will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off.”

Book of Muhammad, verse 4 (47:4) - “Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), strike off their heads; at length; then when you have made wide Slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives…

[Warhawk]

Wasn't this thread about American Propaganda?

Yaknow what I liked?

The old school 20's thru 40's war propaganda. That stuff was awesome.

For Instance: http://theschaefercollection.com/images/webphotos/lusitania.jpg

Well, a German U-boat sank it...what do you think an appropriate response would be?

No real propaganda was needed in the USA after Dec 7, 1941.

[Rourke]

Wasn't this thread about American Propaganda?

Yaknow what I liked?

The old school 20's thru 40's war propaganda. That stuff was awesome.

For Instance: http://theschaefercollection.com/images/webphotos/lusitania.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0K_LZDXp0I

To avoid being blown up.

[Drake Whitewood]

Well, a German U-boat sank it...what do you think an appropriate response would be?

No real propaganda was needed in the USA after Dec 7, 1941.

I'm not being sarcastic.

I collect this shit :)

I've got a couple vintage in storage.

I'm not rich enough to be an art collector, so I'll pick something to collect that actually means something to me. Rather then trying to figure out "The inner turmoil the artist was feeling" as he vomited on a canvas or something.

[Rourke]

Does it do this, too...from the words of Islam:

(not sure why this was missing from my initial reply, i may have not hit "save")

Sura 47:…..those who disbelieve are following falsehood…if you encounter those who disbelieve, you may strike the necks….those who disbelieve incur misery.

Book of Al-Anfal, verse 12 ( 8:12) - “I (Allah) will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off.”

Book of Muhammad, verse 4 (47:4) - “Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), strike off their heads; at length; then when you have made wide Slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives…


aww...how nice. See guys? Islam is just mis-understood after all.

[Warhawk]

I'm not being sarcastic.

I collect this shit :)

I've got a couple vintage in storage.

I'm not rich enough to be an art collector, so I'll pick something to collect that actually means something to me. Rather then trying to figure out "The inner turmoil the artist was feeling" as he vomited on a canvas or something.

I like old materials like that too. i imagine you have to do much of your trading/buying through Ebay?

Old movie posters are the coolest, but I can see why you'd like that Lusitania type thing too.

[Drake Whitewood]

I like old materials like that too. i imagine you have to do much of your trading/buying through Ebay?

Old movie posters are the coolest, but I can see why you'd like that Lusitania type thing too.

Oddly enough, I try to keep this (My one non internet related hobby) off the internet. Flea markets yardsales and antique stores end up yielding some suprising results

Just something to do on lazy Sunday's :D

[jonyak]

Does it do this, too...from the words of Islam:

(not sure why this was missing from my initial reply, i may have not hit "save")

Sura 47:…..those who disbelieve are following falsehood…if you encounter those who disbelieve, you may strike the necks….those who disbelieve incur misery.

Book of Al-Anfal, verse 12 ( 8:12) - “I (Allah) will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off.”

Book of Muhammad, verse 4 (47:4) - “Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), strike off their heads; at length; then when you have made wide Slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives…

The LORD is a man of war. Exodus 15:3

"Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

"Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and possess the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants." (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

[Vaalsha]

Some of the ignorrance in this thread is horrible.
To start with america has created its own problems. The Taliban who are also the Mujahadeen (sp) were funded by the USA in the 80s to fight the russians. They were given military supply training and funds, with much of the same leadership as they had on S11. When the Mujahadeen held afghanistan in the 90s there was major reductions in opium production (now it has sky rocketed).

Sadam hussein was buddy buddy with Donaly Rumsfeld and Bush sr. They sold him the gass he used on the kurds, and supplied him large amounts of weaponry as they tried to play Iraq off Iran.

[Ziegler]

The LORD is a man of war. Exodus 15:3

"Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

"Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and possess the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants." (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

Nice...got anything from the New Testament? since...you know...Christians ignore most of the proclamations and laws set forth in the old testament...

and I still waiting for recent examples of christians doing these things...

[shadowy]

Does it do this, too...from the words of Islam:

(not sure why this was missing from my initial reply, i may have not hit "save")

Sura 47:…..those who disbelieve are following falsehood…if you encounter those who disbelieve, you may strike the necks….those who disbelieve incur misery.

Book of Al-Anfal, verse 12 ( 8:12) - “I (Allah) will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off.”

Book of Muhammad, verse 4 (47:4) - “Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), strike off their heads; at length; then when you have made wide Slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives…

From the christian bible:

Deuteronomy 13

If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, ... That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the LORD your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.

Lots of other examples in there too.

Not quite as straightforward as the muslim ones but i'd qualify that as intolerance of other religions and suggestion to kill unbelievers.

[CrystalUO]

hahah im not even 18 yet and i get letters from the national guard and the army in my mail. hahah like wtf and im not even a citizen

Typical. Give you the privileges of a country, and avoid all responsibility to the country that gives them to you. Very typical.

[Rourke]

Some of the ignorrance in this thread is horrible.
To start with america has created its own problems. The Taliban who are also the Mujahadeen (sp) were funded by the USA in the 80s to fight the russians. They were given military supply training and funds, with much of the same leadership as they had on S11. When the Mujahadeen held afghanistan in the 90s there was major reductions in opium production (now it has sky rocketed).

Sadam hussein was buddy buddy with Donaly Rumsfeld and Bush sr. They sold him the gass he used on the kurds, and supplied him large amounts of weaponry as they tried to play Iraq off Iran.

So? Saddam killed his own people with it? What's the point of who sold who what?

Seems on Wiki, that the US wasn't the only country involved in helping out the Afgans. Tell the whole story.

"The mujahideen were significantly financed and armed (and are alleged to have been trained) by the United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) during the Carter[3] and Reagan administrations and the governments of Saudi Arabia, the People's Republic of China, several Western European countries, Iran, and Zia-ul-Haq's military regime in Pakistan. The Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) was the interagent used in the majority of these activities to disguise the sources of support for the resistance. Under Reagan, U.S. support for the mujahideen evolved into an official U.S. foreign policy, known as the Reagan Doctrine, which included U.S. support for anti-Soviet resistance movements in Afghanistan, Angola, Nicaragua, and elsewhere.[4]"

"The main base station of mujahideen in Pakistan was the town Badaber, 24 km from Peshawar. Afghanistan mujahideen were trained in the Badaber base under supervision by military instructors from the U.S.A., Pakistan, and the Republic of China .The base served as the concentration camp for Soviet and DRA captives as well. In 1985, the uprising of captives destroyed the base, but the incident was concealed by Pakistani and Soviet governments until the dissolution of the USSR."

[Rourke]

From the christian bible:

Deuteronomy 13

If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, ... That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the LORD your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.

Lots of other examples in there too.

Not quite as straightforward as the muslim ones but i'd qualify that as intolerance of other religions and suggestion to kill unbelievers.

Except....THEY NO LONGER ACTUALLY DO IT ANYMORE??

lol..jesus.

[Warhawk]

Sadam hussein was buddy buddy with Donaly Rumsfeld and Bush sr. They sold him the gass he used on the kurds, and supplied him large amounts of weaponry as they tried to play Iraq off Iran.


LOL Play Iraq off of iran yes but the rest of your statement here is almost funny.

[nathanpinard]

From the christian bible:

Deuteronomy 13

If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, ... That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the LORD your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.

Lots of other examples in there too.

Not quite as straightforward as the muslim ones but i'd qualify that as intolerance of other religions and suggestion to kill unbelievers.

While Christians do read the Torah, it's all about the New Testament. The idea is that Jesus came down and kind of "broke the rules" of the Torah, which is WHY he was persecuted in the first place among him claiming he's the son of God.

What you posted it from the Old Testament, so your talking more Judaism.

[Rourke]

Typical. Give you the privileges of a country, and avoid all responsibility to the country that gives them to you. Very typical.

/agreed. Days are gone of Ellis Island and people PROUD to come to America. Too bad we can't kick them back out.

[Vaalsha]

Because the administration knew he was gassing his own people with it but continued to sell it to him.

[Rourke]

Because the administration knew he was gassing his own people with it but continued to sell it to him.


Proof plz?

[jonyak]

Nice...got anything from the New Testament? since...you know...Christians ignore most of the proclamations and laws set forth in the old testament...

and I still waiting for recent examples of christians doing these things...

haha... I am just showing you that the bible is just as bad..

and I would hazard to say most muslims don't do it either.. just a few crazies...

which there are of christians as well..

[Wufiavelli]

And apparently he has now also sold out to the USA government...

What the hell is this...? Does this ad campaign actually work?

This is ridiculous, but the biggest problem I see in the USA right now is that any argument against the government's policies is considered "unpatriotic" by the majority.

Disturbingly the USA is following patterns of many countries pre-dictatorship. All that is needed is a charismatic leader to unite the haters.

Have you looked at US's governments approval rating recently?

There are people as you claim that declare people who questions unpatriotic, but they are no where numerous enough to be the BIGGEST!!!! problem.

I actually see more people screaming wolf. People claiming that someone said they were unpatriotic when this was never said. There are a lot of people in the US who have wet dreams about facing down a fascist US government. And since this does not exist they have to make it up in your heads.

PS: Just to pre emt your response to this, i am very aware of problems excess and exploitations carried out by my government.

[shadowy]

While Christians do read the Torah, it's all about the New Testament. The idea is that Jesus came down and kind of "broke the rules" of the Torah, which is WHY he was persecuted in the first place among him claiming he's the son of God.

What you posted it from the Old Testament, so your talking more Judaism.

Well i have to admit i'm lacking in knowledge about christian theology but christians do preach about the ten commandments that are from the old testament too right?

Kinda silly that you uphold some parts of it even thou they've been "broken" and decide other parts aren't true ...

[Warhawk]

Because the administration knew he was gassing his own people with it but continued to sell it to him.

It was deterrant to a land invasion from Iran into Iraq. After that, China and France were the leading suppliers of anything military to Iraq.

Ahh the peave loving French.

[shadowy]

It was deterrant to a land invasion from Iran into Iraq. After that, China and France were the leading suppliers of anything military to Iraq.

Ahh the peave loving French.

Well it's a a well known fact that capability to use force is one of the prime requirements for peace.

[Ziegler]

haha... I am just showing you that the bible is just as bad..

and I would hazard to say most muslims don't do it either.. just a few crazies...

which there are of christians as well..

Anybody that is christian knows about the things in the old testament. That's kinda the whole thing about Jesus...he brought a new set of laws.

And even though he had some pretty whacked stuff too...again..christianity as a whole is much much more civilized than muslims are today and it is wrong to try to say that the two are anything alike comparing today to today, as opposed to comparing christianity from a few hundred years ago to islam today.

[Kusghuul]

Pax Americana ain't working tbh.

[nathanpinard]

Well i have to admit i'm lacking in knowledge about christian theology but christians do preach about the ten commandments that are from the old testament too right?

Yes, but how does that match with this argument?

I'll admit, this stuff can get really thick. I think the bottom line with this whole situation in the Middle East is this:

1. The Iranian government pretty much as stated they want to kill all the Israeli's, and won't stop. They even stated they are continuing with a nuclear program for the same purpose. Iran is basically led by Islam Extremists. And even if Islam isn't like like, and the Qua'ran is in fact mis-interpreted. The peaceful Muslims have allowed the extremists to take over.

Now...granted. The US has used the word "God" in many cases. But under no circumstances have we even said we want to kill another country because they are unbelievers and the bible preaches it.

We haven't even used the word Jesus (that I can recall). God is much more broad of a word. It offends only the Atheists and Agnostics.

EDIT: I know I could be wrong here. This is my opinion really. I like to make my own assessments without watching every single news station and reading every article. I talk to one source about things like this: my parents.

[Paralda]

Well hopefully they don't try to force you to sign their draft form when you hit 18 like they do to every male.

They tried to make me sign that when I got my drivers license. I refused, and they said it's not actually required. I then asked why they put it with all the required forms, and they shrugged.

[Drake Whitewood]

http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=8&threadID=163447&start=0

Ahh France...

[nathanpinard]

They tried to make me sign that when I got my drivers license. I refused, and they said it's not actually required. I then asked why they put it with all the required forms, and they shrugged.

That was added as a measure of ID verification. So if the ID isn't signed, some establishments will not accept it.

Such as when you buy something with a credit card, and they ask for ID to verify signature.

EDIT: nvm, I thought you were talking about signing the drivers license.

I'm not sure how that isn't legal. If you don't sign for registered service, you can go to jail. (that's the threat anyway)

[shadowy]

Yes, but how does that match with this argument?

I'll admit, this stuff can get really thick. I think the bottom line with this whole situation in the Middle East is this:

1. The Iranian government pretty much as stated they want to kill all the Israeli's, and won't stop. They even stated they are continuing with a nuclear program for the same purpose. Iran is basically led by Islam Extremists. And even if Islam isn't like like, and the Qua'ran is in fact mis-interpreted. The peaceful Muslims have allowed the extremists to take over.

Now...granted. The US has used the word "God" in many cases. But under no circumstances have we even said we want to kill another country because they are unbelievers and the bible preaches it.

We haven't even used the word Jesus (that I can recall). God is much more broad of a word. It offends only the Atheists and Agnostics.

EDIT: I know I could be wrong here. This is my opinion really. I like to make my own assessments without watching every single news station and reading every article. I talk to one source about things like this: my parents.


What i really was arguing against was the statement that only islam preaches about killing the unbelievers.

All the major religions nowdays are vague enough that fanatics can use their holy books to incite people into violence, blaming islam is fucking stupid because it's the fanatics that cause the violence, religion is only a tool to brainwash other people into helping/join 'em.

Edit: Religion is also a tool many politicians like to use ...

[Rourke]

They tried to make me sign that when I got my drivers license. I refused, and they said it's not actually required. I then asked why they put it with all the required forms, and they shrugged.

lol.."What?? I'm not signing THAT!! I just want to live here, and enjoy all the freedoms, but if I have to defend it, goddamnit, Canada here i come!!"

Fucking figures, lol. What a puss.

[Warhawk]

At any rate the song isnt that bad unless you like hip hop and rap.

I laugh when people use terms like "sold out". If you work for anyone but yourself you sold out. Even if you work for yourself, you've likely sold out. If you buy into the whole crdit score idea, you sold out. Do you pay interest on a loan or credit card? You fucking sell out!

We've all sold out.

You'd be dumb as hell not to sell out and mis getting a nice payday. Money isnt everything but you sure do need some.

I hate rap, but if I could rap and someone offered me big dollars to make a CD, i'd sell out right now.

The real difference is, what is your sellout price? Kid Rocks likely gets a 6 figure, or perhaps a 6 zero payday for his work, and most of the people that throw the term sellout around sold out for dirt cheap...the guy making minimum wage and even the guy making $150,000US.

[Ziegler]

http://www.sss.gov/

If you are a man ages 18 through 25 and living in the U.S., then you must register with Selective Service. It’s the law.


http://www.sss.gov/FSwho.htm


Might be worth a read to all you fucking hippies who aint migrated to canada yet.

[Drake Whitewood]

That was added as a measure of ID verification. So if the ID isn't signed, some establishments will not accept it.

Such as when you buy something with a credit card, and they ask for ID to verify signature.

EDIT: nvm, I thought you were talking about signing the drivers license.

I'm not sure how that isn't legal. If you don't sign for registered service, you can go to jail. (that's the threat anyway)

I dunno why everyone freaks out about the draft. Registering for selective service is just something our country does in the case that we're ever involved in a REAL catastrophe. And not a catastrophe in the Hurricane Katrina, or 9/11 sense. I'm talking fucking IMMINENT DEFEAT/DESTRUCTION OF OUR NATION catastrophe. In which case would you seriously tell me that you'd sit back and watch as our nation burned? I'm sure some would. Most wouldn't. Fuck that noise. I'll be too old for service by that point, but I'll still raise arms.

Peeps think they're making a statement when they refuse to sign up for selective service. What really kicks me, is when peeps think they're lashing out against the Neo-Cons or Repubs or whatever.

The only one that's tried to bring back the draft (Multiple times) in recent memory has been a Democrat.

Charlie Rangel. Dem NY

[Warhawk]

Peeps think they're making a statement when they refuse to sign up for selective service. What really kicks me, is when peeps think they're lashing out against the Neo-Cons or Repubs or whatever.

The only one that's tried to bring back the draft (Multiple times) in recent memory has been a Democrat.

Charlie Rangel. Dem NY

LOL very eye opening isnt it?

Let's discuss Deomcrat vs. Republican tax rates too. And also, general governemnt interference in our daily lives, which is more a threat/violation of your rights and liberties than any form of the Patriot Acts is/was.

Funny thing is I sound right wing, and Im very middle of the road. But facts are facts, you just need to see all the information.


PS: A real manly draft dodger would sign the selective service form, then shoot himself in the knee. There ya go. Be a man.

[Drake Whitewood]

It's important at that age to think that your actions are very important. That your rebellious nature and unconquerable spirit will be unchanging and uncompromising.

Then at about 22 you realize you were full of shit.

Some people go through their whole life believing they're some unique snowflake. Some actually become Celebs and Rockstars. Most become Unemployed. :(

It's Friday and I'm outs!

[Warhawk]

It's important at that age to think that your actions are very important. That your rebellious nature and unconquerable spirit will be unchanging and uncompromising.

Then at about 22 you realize you were full of shit.

Some people go through their whole life believing they're some unique snowflake. Some actually become Celebs and Rockstars. Most become Unemployed. :(

It's Friday and I'm outs!


Oh man you just gave me a term of endearment for these folks when we debate at a bar or a party...Snowflakes. Thank you.

[[O]_Fawkes]

Kid Rock blows.

I laughed when I heard this song and saw the "88" on the roof of the Nascar car. How much more stereotypical does it get?

(For those who don't know 88 is the number the Aryan Brotherhood uses to represent itself)

I think Three Doors Down's version was much better than any shit Kid Rock could come up with. At least they didn't make it so obvious that the purpose of these "patriotic" songs is to rope kids into the military with glorified images of the Army.

[Warhawk]

_Fawkes;2305052']I laughed when I heard this song and saw the "88" on the roof of the Nascar car. How much more stereotypical does it get?

You just exceeded the amount. It is Dale Jr's number.

[Azure Trigger]

And apparently he has now also sold out to the USA government...

What the hell is this...? Does this ad campaign actually work?

This is ridiculous, but the biggest problem I see in the USA right now is that any argument against the government's policies is considered "unpatriotic" by the majority.

Disturbingly the USA is following patterns of many countries pre-dictatorship. All that is needed is a charismatic leader to unite the haters.


Hey, a fellow nova scotian : D

And yeah, Whenever people 'question' things like this, it's unpatriotic.

EDIT: I'm also Canadian, no need to worry about a draft : )
Plus, i'm a Conscientious objector.

[chodie4u]

And apparently he has now also sold out to the USA government...

What the hell is this...? Does this ad campaign actually work?

This is ridiculous, but the biggest problem I see in the USA right now is that any argument against the government's policies is considered "unpatriotic" by the majority.

Disturbingly the USA is following patterns of many countries pre-dictatorship. All that is needed is a charismatic leader to unite the haters.

For once, I agree with Jesus.
People tend to forget our country was founded on dissent and questioning governmental policies. People tend to forget dissent is patriotic.

Typical. Give you the privileges of a country, and avoid all responsibility to the country that gives them to you. Very typical.

He's not even old enough to vote yet they are asking him to put his life on the line for the freedom to. How about allowing him the right to the freedoms he is trying to protect before asking him to protect them?

tl;dr: don't recruit children.

[Warhawk]

Hey, a fellow nova scotian : D

And yeah, Whenever people 'question' things like this, it's unpatriotic.

EDIT: I'm also Canadian, no need to worry about a draft : )
Plus, i'm a Conscientious objector.


Exactly, no need for you to worry, we'll handle it all for you. You just sit back and enjoy. I am fine with it, happy to do the service. You can attend a gay pride parade on the way home from a anti-America rally travelling on the income you make writing anti government literature while me and the rest will ensure you the rights to be able to do that.

[Warhawk]

He's not even old enough to vote yet they are asking him to put his life on the line for the freedom to. How about allowing him the right to the freedoms he is trying to protect before asking him to protect them?

It depends on the state first of all. In some state you cant get a license until 18. Up to then you are on a permit or 'cinderella' license, and need to drive with a licensed driver 18 or older all the time. So you jump to conclusions, which may or may not be correct, but is still not the best approach regardless.

[Azure Trigger]

Exactly, no need for you to worry, we'll handle it all for you. You just sit back and enjoy. I am fine with it, happy to do the service. You can attend a gay pride parade on the way home from a anti-America rally travelling on the income you make writing anti government literature while me and the rest will ensure you the rights to be able to do that.

Sounds like a good time : ) Homosexuals can throw some damn good parties, and I've always wanted to get into writing..

[Warhawk]

Sounds like a good time : ) Homosexuals can throw some damn good parties, and I've always wanted to get into writing..

Im glad and proud they can, instead of being in a jail, beheaded such as in many muslim areas, or driven underground.

However I dont think you have the insight to pen much of any real use, entertainment, or value.

[Azure Trigger]

Im glad and proud they can, instead of being in a jail, beheaded such as in many muslim areas, or driven underground.

However I dont think you have the insight to pen much of any real use, entertainment, or value.

Haha, Talent means nothing in todays writing industry. Just take a look at how popular Twilight is.

[Warhawk]

Haha, Talent means nothing in todays writing industry. Just take a look at how popular Twilight is.

Or take a look at music, which brings us full circle in a way.

People crash down on Kid Rock's music but what do they offer as music they deem good?

There has not bee much to offer up as quality.

[Reckin Crew]

Nah, if you've managed to elect Bush. TWICE. Nothing can shaft you anymore. You've been shafted so much that there's nothing left. You're all unshaftable. Shaftproof. Shaft-resistant to up to 200 meters. And having neither choice being good is your own damn fault for having a two-party system, I know ADD is a bitch, but at least try and have three choices.

love to know what country your from....?

[1998altima]

And having neither choice being good is your own damn fault for having a two-party system, I know ADD is a bitch, but at least try and have three choices.

Just to let you know we have a third choice it's called 'Independent'.

[Warhawk]

love to know what country your from....?

It would be fun to compare elections of said country.

Just to let you know we have a third choice it's called 'Independent'.

Technically there are a ton of choices. Does France or Canada even allow a Socialist party? I wonder if they do. Do they allow a White Supremacist to campaign at all?

France and Canada have a party but are they part of official elections at all? I cant find this information, and Im leaving work now.

[Rourke]

Just to let you know we have a third choice it's called 'Independent'.

4-Green Party. I think?

[Rourke]

_Fawkes;2305052']Kid Rock blows.

I laughed when I heard this song and saw the "88" on the roof of the Nascar car. How much more stereotypical does it get?

(For those who don't know 88 is the number the Aryan Brotherhood uses to represent itself)

I think Three Doors Down's version was much better than any shit Kid Rock could come up with. At least they didn't make it so obvious that the purpose of these "patriotic" songs is to rope kids into the military with glorified images of the Army.


I can't stand Kid Rock, but that 88 bullshit is just retarded your moron, lol.

Don't EVEN try and pick on Junior either, I got to race him onlione in Arca at Dega a few months ago. it...was...AWESOMEZ!! Vroooom!!!

Reminds me, I need to start Sim racing again...i miss doing circles at 195mph drunk.

[Warhawk]

love to know what country your from....?

4-Green Party. I think?

The 'official' parties are
Republican
Democratic
Libertarian
Green
and Constitution


Green being the newest.

[1998altima]

Technically there are a ton of choices. Does France or Canada even allow a Socialist party? I wonder if they do. Do they allow a White Supremacist to campaign at all?

France and Canada have a party but are they part of official elections at all? I cant find this information, and Im leaving work now.

The two major parties in Canada are Conservative and Liberal. Then they have a bunch more like NDP (New Democratic Party), Bloc Quebecois, Green Party, Marijuana Party, Libertarian Party, Communist Party, Socialist Party, Marxist Party, Rhinoceros Party and a few others I can't name right now.

As for White Supremacists I'm not sure there are many up here to be honest. There are definately a lot of white people but I haven't heard much about White Supremacists.

[Hur]

Maybe when any of the other countries in the world can even compare to what the United States donates as far as food/medicine/money/weapons to other countries to help their welfare, then and only then can those who live in other countries say their piece
otherwise STFU

[Rourke]

Maybe when any of the other countries in the world can even compare to what the United States donates as far as food/medicine/money/weapons to other countries to help their welfare, then and only then can those who live in other countries say their piece
otherwise STFU


Hey...Spain helped in Iraq!!! Until they got thier trains bombed. Then they surrendered.

[Chankeen]

Bloc Quebecois

interesting thing here -an official federal party with the platform to break up confederation and form a separate country.

[1998altima]

interesting thing here -an official federal party with the platform to break up confederation and form a separate country.

Hey what do you call a constapated frog. BLOC QUEBECOIS!

[Warhawk]

Hey...Spain helped in Iraq!!! Until they got thier trains bombed. Then they surrendered.

Too close to France. -=(

[Ion_StormH]

Sorry first of all for the late reply - I had some RL to do. Now, let's get back to topic.

Saddam killed about what? 100,000 of his OWN people? How about his sons and thier torture rooms?

Fine. Why doesn't anybody intervene in each and every other place where genocide or general crisis plague the land?

Isreal is our ally, and I am not sure where your going with that one, but obviously they can kick ass.

Afganistan is, was, and will always be a herion-riddled shitpot, so who cares. Obama is send more troops there anyways after we leave Iraq. You cry for them now or later, gonna be a while.

I think you did not even get the slightlest idea of my example - My question is this, in quite simple form: If I do not care about these nations, why should I care about an attack on America if I am not American? How could you even expect me to be anymore sensible about 9/11 than you probably are about the attacks on Madrid or London?

The American citizen has the great pleasure of sitting by and watching our Government make terrible desicions, and then having dick's like you blame the citizens like we're the bad guys, lol. EVEN THOUGH American are from all parts of the world, who move here for a better life.

Absolutely. Because I stated that I disliked the US public, plus I wish death and fire upon every America, correct?

Now I am sure you can quote me on saying this. :)

The harsh truth is that I DON'T have to come to terms with ANYTHING you say or think.

And this route goes vice versa.

Since I already know your another American hater....you can just get in a very long line of jealous pricks. :D

You already put me into the category of American hater. It is exactly how it was stated beforehand - criticise US politics, which you state for yourself as being "stupid", and I am an American hater.

You should work on your ability to understand anotherone's point before answering. I never said that any American was worth less than anybody else - only equal to everybody else, for me, as an European.

I know America sends money, troops, supplies ALL OVER the world for countries in crisis all the time. We care alot about our friends, and prove it daily. Personally, I think we should pull it all back, and lock this country down for 20 years.

We agree here - I am thankful for what the US did in Europe, but we are on our own feet and it will be a boon to the US taxpayer as well to end the military presence here in Europe.

Edit: Hey...Spain helped in Iraq!!! Until they got thier trains bombed. Then they surrendered.

This is exactly what I mean. Shouldn't everybody else answer with a :bang: here as well? Aren't Spaniards as important as Americans? Seeing you having fun comparing this tragedy in itself to some cowardly choice by the Spanish government only proves my point.

Maybe when any of the other countries in the world can even compare to what the United States donates as far as food/medicine/money/weapons to other countries to help their welfare, then and only then can those who live in other countries say their piece
otherwise STFU

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Community_Humanitarian_Aid_Offi ce

"In 2006, ECHO's aid budget amounted to 671 million euro, 48% of which went to the ACP countries. Together with the aid given by member states individually, the Union is the largest aid donor in the world."

Obviously only wikipedia, but just for you: STFU yourself. We can compare. In addition to that, Germany's the strongest exporting economy in the world - A lot of that are weapons. ;)

[Warhawk]

Obviously only wikipedia, but just for you: STFU yourself.

That is the total of a continent, not any one nation.

PS: USA provided $1.7 billion in worldwide food assistance alone (2007), and in 2008 total worldwide foreign aid from the USA totals $26 billion.

[Teutates]

That is the total of a continent, not any one nation.

PS: USA provided $1.7 billion in worldwide food assistance alone (2007), and in 2008 total worldwide foreign aid from the USA totals $26 billion.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0930884.html
(per capita)


http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_eco_aid_don-economy-economic-aid-donor

this is in total aid (not per capita) but as you can see, even UK and France together with a population of 1/3 the USA have the same amount

[Kusghuul]

That is the total of a continent, not any one nation.

PS: USA provided $1.7 billion in worldwide food assistance alone (2007), and in 2008 total worldwide foreign aid from the USA totals $26 billion.

And $3 billion dollars to israel. That's like selling landmines, painkillers and prosthetic knees to Somalia.

[Vessol]

I see this shit all the time back when I went to the movie theaters.

Yeah, another reason why I don't go.

[Ion_StormH]

That is the total of a continent, not any one nation.

PS: USA provided $1.7 billion in worldwide food assistance alone (2007), and in 2008 total worldwide foreign aid from the USA totals $26 billion.

It's neither of the two you stated but a hybrid confederation/federation and supranational construct.

Nevertheless, it's member contribute or take away the possible amount of power, and thus have a certain amount of international weight in form of the EU. As the question was "either contribute anything worthy or shut the fuck up!", my response to answer exactly this question still holds validity. :)

[Warhawk]

And $3 billion dollars to israel. That's like selling landmines, painkillers and prosthetic knees to Somalia.

US worldwide food handouts alone are still more than the 1.1$billion quoted in the link claiming the EU as the worlds largest contributor.

It's neither of the two you stated but a hybrid confederation/federation and supranational construct.

It is still basically the total from a continent rather than from a nation. Splitting hairs here.

Nevertheless, it's member contribute or take away the possible amount of power, and thus have a certain amount of international weight in form of the EU. As the question was "either contribute anything worthy or shut the fuck up!", my response to answer exactly this question still holds validity. :)

Well i didnt ask a question, but ok?

[LordTenacious]

Yes, the United States is evil whilst freely handing out tons of shit to people. Moving on.....

[Pcheez]

1. Kid rock is a living joke.
2. You spelled Propaganda incorrectly op.

[Rourke]

Sorry first of all for the late reply - I had some RL to do. Now, let's get back to topic.



Fine. Why doesn't anybody intervene in each and every other place where genocide or general crisis plague the land?

Like we did in Somalia and Bosnia?



I think you did not even get the slightlest idea of my example - My question is this, in quite simple form: If I do not care about these nations, why should I care about an attack on America if I am not American? How could you even expect me to be anymore sensible about 9/11 than you probably are about the attacks on Madrid or London?

I would and do care very much. For the UK. They have helped the US greatly.


Absolutely. Because I stated that I disliked the US public, plus I wish death and fire upon every America, correct?

Now I am sure you can quote me on saying this. :)

I won't give you the satisfaction.



And this route goes vice versa.



You already put me into the category of American hater. It is exactly how it was stated beforehand - criticise US politics, which you state for yourself as being "stupid", and I am an American hater.

You should work on your ability to understand anotherone's point before answering. I never said that any American was worth less than anybody else - only equal to everybody else, for me, as an European.

Funny, as I never see US people starting anti-german, or UK threads though. Americans are attacked, made fun, and downed daily by Euro's here, and elsewhere. What do you expect? Even though many of us are direct descendats of European countries.



We agree here - I am thankful for what the US did in Europe, but we are on our own feet and it will be a boon to the US taxpayer as well to end the military presence here in Europe.

Edit:

This is exactly what I mean. Shouldn't everybody else answer with a :bang: here as well? Aren't Spaniards as important as Americans? Seeing you having fun comparing this tragedy in itself to some cowardly choice by the Spanish government only proves my point.

The day of the attacks on Madrid, I was horrified, and still am. HUNDREDS were killed, and I thought to myself.."Man....Spain is gonna put the fucking HAMMER down now." Spain was given an ultimatum to withdraw from Iraq, I thought..."Now way these guys will cave in, thier our ally right? Well...guess not as good of an ally as we thought, lol. I feel for the people of Spain involved in the attack, but thier own Government caved in to terrorists, so...fuck it.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Community_Humanitarian_Aid_Offi ce

"In 2006, ECHO's aid budget amounted to 671 million euro, 48% of which went to the ACP countries. Together with the aid given by member states individually, the Union is the largest aid donor in the world."

Obviously only wikipedia, but just for you: STFU yourself. We can compare. In addition to that, Germany's the strongest exporting economy in the world - A lot of that are weapons. ;)

Someone else already pointed out the above flaw..

[nathanpinard]

I think you did not even get the slightlest idea of my example - My question is this, in quite simple form: If I do not care about these nations, why should I care about an attack on America if I am not American? How could you even expect me to be anymore sensible about 9/11 than you probably are about the attacks on Madrid or London?

I'm not sure which attacks you are talking about, but 9/11 was a bit more special because it was a foreign attack, not domestic.

Pearl Harbor off the top of my head, was our last foreign attack. Oklahoma and the various other bombings were domestic.

I honestly don't really expect anybody in the US to freak out due to 9/11. But it was a hard hit for us considering the place, the people, and the shock and awe effect it had.

Also for those saying "Why do I give a shit if America falls/gets taken over?": Just remember whoever is taking us over is replacing us.

[Ignotis]

Nationalism is the downfall of man. People need to be moderate about how they view their nation and their government, not brainwashed flag-waving zombies. Clearly Iraq threatened our individual liberties, a nation with no correlation to us or terrorism. When people profess that some how at any moment they would have invaded us on their mounted donkey brigade if we didn't start this crusade in the middle east I get appaled at how stupid some people are. Not to get confused, I support the troops, but the actions of this government and the mindless zombies who make it their patriotic duty to enable said government make me wonder.

[verlox2]

Nationalism is the downfall of man. People need to be moderate about how they view their nation and their government, not brainwashed flag-waving zombies. Clearly Iraq threatened our individual liberties, a nation with no correlation to us or terrorism. When people profess that some how at any moment they would have invaded us on their mounted donkey brigade if we didn't start this crusade in the middle east I get appaled at how stupid some people are. Not to get confused, I support the troops, but the actions of this government and the mindless zombies who make it their patriotic duty to enable said government make me wonder.

"Patriotism is the virtue of the foolish" -Oscar Wilde

[Mungad]

"Patriotism is the virtue of the foolish" -Oscar Wilde

I also like to have sex with little boys -Oscar Wilde

[Vanno]

Way to make this thread a pool of effluence from a retard orgy guys.

[Vanno]

I also like to have sex with little boys -Oscar Wilde

Be that as it may, or may not, Oscar Wilde > You

[Mungad]

Be that as it may, or may not, Oscar Wilde > You

Thanks for clarifying that.

[Vaalsha]

Stop with the aid crap, during the tsunami americas donations per capita were pitiful per capita it was one of if not the lowest donator of aid, australia with a population of 20mil donated over half a bil while usa donated under 400mil. All the aid workers were from auz/nz and europe with hardly any from the US government at all.
Problem is these idiots here think criticism is unpatriotic, america would never be where it was today withought peaceful dissent and discussion. Why should I sign to the military when I cant even drink yet? So im old enough to be killed but not to consume alcohol?
To all you people giving crap to those you call pussys (which is a pathetic thing to call someone anyway) I bet you they would all sign up for the military in a time of need, just not to benefit haliburton and neocon interests.

[Ion_StormH]

Like we did in Somalia and Bosnia?

Somalia can also be considered a failed attempt at humanitarian aid by the late government of Bush senior who desperately needed some good remarks on his "What I did as a President" list.

I give you two sentences here: Amphibious landing of the US Navy on the coast of Somalia. Wester media giving away the first soldier's place by having a freaking set of spotlight directed at him.

Now that's for sure not some kind of attempt to use the humanitarian effort as a pro-government propaganda. :) And we all know how well Somalia looks now, don't we? Why, it's even interesting that the US (and also us Europeans) needed this long to intervene in Bosnia, if we're this good-hearted.

I would and do care very much. For the UK. They have helped the US greatly.

And Spain did enter the "coalition of the willing" as well - So, that doesn't count as an ally? Obviously, the UK and the US have the strongest relationship between the US and a European country, which again is also my reason why I don't disapprove of the US as a nation or a people. :)

I won't give you the satisfaction.

Which is as good as admitting that you cannot, thank you.

Funny, as I never see US people starting anti-german, or UK threads though. Americans are attacked, made fun, and downed daily by Euro's here, and elsewhere. What do you expect? Even though many of us are direct descendats of European countries.

And even if you did, I wouldn't really mind. I criticise my governments quite often, as I do criticise the Russian, the American and the Chinese, etc. pp. Again, you couldn't quote me saying that I hated Americans, probably because I never said I did.

I also never made fun of the American people but stated that for me as somebody far less affected, the use and - in my view - attention whoring of 9/11 on a fucking global scale has become enough for me.

I don't like seeing one of my continent's and nations' biggest allies crying like a stupid emo over a fucking scar while incomprehensivly bashing about doing nothing but more damage.

Yes, 9/11 wasn't nice. But deeming that you'll never be able to get over it and will always remain in a state of utter grief seems quite immature to me. It's hard, but it's a hard world, and 9/11 was a wake-up call to this truth. And to be calm in mind and rational in action is a better security against any odds than simple rage.

The initial fear connected to the attacks is understandable, and I stated beforehand that I cannot comprehend the individual family's grief. But a national soul is comprised of each and every citizien, and a national soul has the ability and right not to let its fear be used by its government or somebody else to become a blind mass of lemmings running into certain death while screaming "Liberty!".

And that's what the original video is trying to do in my view. Just listen to the first stanza - Don't ask question if "Liberty is at stake"? My dear god, this sounds like a free-ride into authoritarian town.

Read Lord of the Flies - It'll explain to everybody why imaginary enemies are the worst, because fear will drive a society into a false need for security and the abolishment of freedom.

And then, if that happens - What were these 5,000 dying for, in the end? Nothing.

The day of the attacks on Madrid, I was horrified, and still am. HUNDREDS were killed, and I thought to myself.."Man....Spain is gonna put the fucking HAMMER down now." Spain was given an ultimatum to withdraw from Iraq, I thought..."Now way these guys will cave in, thier our ally right? Well...guess not as good of an ally as we thought, lol. I feel for the people of Spain involved in the attack, but thier own Government caved in to terrorists, so...fuck it.

No attacks happened on Spanish embassies or on Spanish soil after that, right? So, maybe their strategy wasn't this useless - After all, the whole war on terror is justified with safeguarding national security.

Someone else already pointed out the above flaw..

And I counterargued already - The EU is an organisation, and while not one nation, each member state gains international momentum by participating within said organisation.

-----------------------
It is still basically the total from a continent rather than from a nation. Splitting hairs here.

It's not splitting hairs. IIRC, there are 45 nations in Europe, but only 27 nations member states of the European Union. This is rougly more than 60% of all European nations member states of the Europen Union.

Now while the most powerful nations are members of the Union, stating that whatever the EU does would also account, say for Turkey, or Belorussia is saying that whatever the US does would be true for Cuba.

Well i didnt ask a question, but ok?

Well, "To shut the fuck up" is a challenging statement to me, but ok?

[Trikz]

Just an army add, not propagnda is it..

[Yobaj]

Just an army add, not propagnda is it..
It painted a picture of a happy and very untrue picture of Iraq and shit. Not propaganda? My ass.

[Razel]

well im sure kid rock got some money for that bullshit however i doubt you'll ever see him there, at least not taking a bullet. At this point i think anyone who supports that 'war' conflict, invasion, wotever ya wana call it, is pretty fucked up in the head or hard up for cash.

[Ion_StormH]

well im sure kid rock got some money for that bullshit however i doubt you'll ever see him there, at least not taking a bullet.

True, probably. Or at least, he'd practice what he preaches.

At this point i think anyone who supports that 'war' conflict, invasion, wotever ya wana call it, is pretty fucked up in the head or hard up for cash.

I wouldn't go this far now though - A US presence in Iraq is actually needed in order to prevent matters from becoming worse. So even if you've got the best interest of the Iraqi people at heart, supporting the US presence is more reasonable than having Iraq fend on its own.

Well, mostly because Iraq wouldn't be able to exist in a semi-peaceful state after the US leaves for too long (Max. of one day would be my guess).

That's also why a planned and step-by-step retreat is more sensible (Actually what the US is doing right now, even though too fast maybe). But in the end, the situation of the US being needed is due to the actual invasion.

Not saying that I wouldn't be glad as hell if Iraq could become what Bush wanted it to be.

[Bosemann]

True, probably. Or at least, he'd practice what he preaches.



I wouldn't go this far now though - A US presence in Iraq is actually needed in order to prevent matters from becoming worse. So even if you've got the best interest of the Iraqi people at heart, supporting the US presence is more reasonable than having Iraq fend on its own.

Well, mostly because Iraq wouldn't be able to exist in a semi-peaceful state after the US leaves for too long (Max. of one day would be my guess).

That's also why a planned and step-by-step retreat is more sensible (Actually what the US is doing right now, even though too fast maybe). But in the end, the situation of the US being needed is due to the actual invasion.

Not saying that I wouldn't be glad as hell if Iraq could become what Bush wanted it to be.

This is exactly how I feel about Iraq. The invasion was a terrible idea and the net result has fueled terrorism... but we screwed Iraq up and to pull out too quickly would leave em in chaos.

[chodie4u]

It depends on the state first of all. In some state you cant get a license until 18. Up to then you are on a permit or 'cinderella' license, and need to drive with a licensed driver 18 or older all the time. So you jump to conclusions, which may or may not be correct, but is still not the best approach regardless.

I was talking about the right to vote, not the right to operate a motor vehicle.
You have to be 18 to vote.

[Rourke]

It painted a picture of a happy and very untrue picture of Iraq and shit. Not propaganda? My ass.


Really...you know a lot about Iraq? Lots of your troops reporting back? Or is this knowledge you gleened from the Euro non-agenda news? Please.....lots has changed in Iraq, not without the obvious troubles.

[ep0k]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_uXGCZenwY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cceC3DeFcY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmJv_wf91W8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI5EY5kqiBU&feature=related

______________________

Just a few links to enlighten a little bit things on this subject.

Take a look.

[Paradiso]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_uXGCZenwY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cceC3DeFcY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmJv_wf91W8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI5EY5kqiBU&feature=related

______________________

Just a few links to enlighten a little bit things on this subject.

Take a look.

cool shit. also pretty terrifying.